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  #31  
Old 01-04-2009, 09:11 PM
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sharksfan2000 sharksfan2000 is offline
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Originally Posted by snoot View Post
Moz: Also, does anyone have an exact date for the day Jeremy left the band?

EDIT: You're doing a good job as it is zeroing in on it Moz. You just need to pinpoint the Last Fillmore SF or first Whisky LA date. Where is sharksfan and that Hjorte bible he packs when you need 'em!
Hjort bible! Seriously, it's the best day-by-day account I've seen of Fleetwood Mac from its inception (and many events leading up to the band's formation) up to Peter Green's departure. I think there are things in the book that are open to question, but overall it seems very well researched and it's about as comprehensive as could be expected given the time since the events took place. But the scope of the book is limited and it does not cover post-Green Fleetwood Mac.

The FM Legacy site does have reproductions of concert posters for the February '71 Fillmore West and Swing Auditorium shows but not from the Whiskey shows. The 11-14 Feb. dates for the Fillmore and 19 Feb. date for the Swing appear to be correct based on the posters (see attached images). Posters are not always reliable - for example, there's a poster from those 8/69 Fillmore West dates that were cancelled, and I've seen other questionable posters as well - but there doesn't seem to be any particular reason to doubt the accuracy of these 2/71 dates.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg 1971-02-11_Fillmore%20West.jpg (74.2 KB, 11 views)
File Type: jpg 1971-02-19.jpg (36.8 KB, 11 views)
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  #32  
Old 01-04-2009, 09:12 PM
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Originally Posted by vermicious knid View Post
The early days are rather confusing to me because their singles,when released, wouldn't be on any album. I wonder in what era that practice ended.
A lot of the times for sure, but never as an absolute rule either. That practice kind of faded away by the end of the 60's, when Top 20 + Top 40 charts began to be rivaled by FM (extended play) radio. The early '70s programming movement away from Top 40 AM put something of a damper on the traditional over-emphasis of letting singles rule the day, which the record companies couldn't help but eventually recognize. Whole albums could be heard regularly on the best FM stations, and many songs that never got the play they deserved on the AM dial could be heard, often frequently, on the FM side in what some have called the "golden age of integrity programming." DJ's began playing what they wanted instead of what they were told, and prog rock, blues-rock and psychedelia in particular finally stood chance!

This included, as it pertained to the Mac, FM radio staples (quasi-hits) like Hypnotized, Station Man, Sentimental Lady, and Bermuda Triangle. It also included many of the PG era hits that charted in the UK like Albatross, Oh Well, Man Of The World and The Green Manalishi. Hard to believe that only one of those - Oh Well - charted stateside out of that whole pack! That's not to say that none of those tunes ever made it to the AM side, they did, but either as localized (regional) faves or by request.
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  #33  
Old 01-04-2009, 09:36 PM
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Originally Posted by sharksfan2000 View Post
Hjort bible! Seriously, it's the best day-by-day account I've seen of Fleetwood Mac from its inception (and many events leading up to the band's formation) up to Peter Green's departure.
Excellent find Sharkman, we knew you'd come through.

Those dates look pretty good to me, based on what I know. I think the JS disappearing act could safely be dated Feb 15th now, pending some new revelation. I actually posted that date earlier, but decided to edit it out as I could easily see it being bumped up or down by a day or two or three in all the smoke and haze.

Great poster finds also! That Swing is a keeper, for me more of a keepsake. And I never knew IABD - another one of my fave bands (and definite top favorite of the psychedelic genre) headlined immediately after the Mac at the Fillmore on their winter swing thru! I'm positive that would have been part of the Marrying Maiden tour, when the band still featured Hal Wagenet on guitar and Mitch Holman on bass. Alas, they were soon to exit stage left.

btw it's the Whisky A Go Go, not Whiskey (a mistake we all make, since the drink cuts both ways).
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  #34  
Old 01-04-2009, 09:47 PM
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Originally Posted by snoot View Post
A lot of the times for sure, but never as an absolute rule either. That practice kind of faded away by the end of the 60's, when Top 20 + Top 40 charts began to be rivaled by FM (extended play) radio.
I think that's pretty accurate for the practice of releasing singles that were not included on albums at that particular time, but it certainly was not unusual during the punk/post-punk era in the later '70s and early '80s, and continued to some extent into the '90s at least.

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btw it's the Whisky A Go Go, not Whiskey
Thanks for the correction - not sure I knew that.
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  #35  
Old 01-04-2009, 10:18 PM
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Originally Posted by sharksfan2000 View Post
I think that's pretty accurate for the practice of releasing singles that were not included on albums at that particular time, but it certainly was not unusual during the punk/post-punk era in the later '70s and early '80s, and continued to some extent into the '90s at least.
Interesting. I'm not sure if that was because the impact of FM radio - as we once knew it - had faded somewhat by then, or it was just due to my overall lack of interest in the punk, techno and grunge.*

Hey does Hjort indicate the recording studio for the TPO sessions and Kiln House by chance? I'm racking my brains trying to recall where those projects were done respectively, as I probably knew once upon a time but have lost a ****load of brains cells since. Ah... you know the bit. [x] cringe [x]
--------+
*PS. I should add I do enjoy a lot of 80's stuff, bands like the Pretenders, Eurythmics, Heart, Katrina & The Waves, Berlin, Quarterflash, and the Motels. Do any of those queen size bands count? In fairness I don't really think Stevie Ray Vaughan, the Fabulous Thunderbirds, Huey Lewis or Asia qualify as such.
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  #36  
Old 01-04-2009, 11:20 PM
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Interesting. I'm not sure if that was because the impact of FM radio - as we once knew it - had faded somewhat by then, or it was just due to my overall lack of interest in the punk, techno and grunge.
I'm guessing it was in large part due to the rise of indie labels during those years, and their pressing more singles (which could be done more cheaply) than full albums - so in many cases by the time an LP was released, most fans would already have the singles. And there was a feeling on the part of some bands that they didn't want to have their fans pay twice for a song - once on a single and then later included on an LP. Not always the case, to be sure, and there certainly must have been a bunch more reasons too.

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Hey does Hjort indicate the recording studio for the TPO sessions and Kiln House by chance?
Hjort writes that the TPO sessions were at De Lane Lea, while Peter Lewry's book "Fleetwood Mac - The Complete Recording Sessions 1967-1997" says "studio unknown". Lewry's book shows the KH sessions taking place at Kiln House (this is not covered in Hjort's book). I seem to recall reading someplace that the band used the Rolling Stones' mobile studio for the KH sessions - does that sound right to anyone or did I just imagine it?

I missed this bit in Hjort's book before, regarding Christine McVie's joining the band....he writes that she joined the group on every date of their US tour that began in New Orleans, but that she was not officially a member of the band at first. He goes on to write that within a week of the New Orleans show, the UK music press was given the news that she was now a member of Fleetwood Mac and that she now wanted to be known as Christine McVie rather than Perfect. Mick Fleetwood's book says pretty much the same thing, but makes it sound like Christine was already officially a band member at the beginning of the tour. As others have noted in this thread, there might have been contractual issues to deal with here.
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  #37  
Old 01-05-2009, 12:44 AM
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Originally Posted by sharksfan2000 View Post
I'm guessing it was in large part due to the rise of indie labels during those years, and their pressing more singles (which could be done more cheaply) than full albums - so in many cases by the time an LP was released, most fans would already have the singles.
Indie labels, yes I could see that being a big part of the equation. As for the single resurgence, what medium was being utilized? Wouldn't much of that time frame be post-45's, but pre-digital? There was no Internet around until the early 90's, for all intents and purposes. Was there some kind of mini-CDs or discs that blew right by me?

Hjort writes that the TPO sessions were at De Lane Lea, while Peter Lewry's book "Fleetwood Mac - The Complete Recording Sessions 1967-1997" says "studio unknown". Lewry's book shows the KH sessions taking place at Kiln House (this is not covered in Hjort's book). I seem to recall reading someplace that the band used the Rolling Stones' mobile studio for the KH sessions - does that sound right to anyone or did I just imagine it?

Ah De Lane Lea, eh? I suspected as much but couldn't be sure. I believe they returned to the Music Centre for the Bare Trees production a bit later. As for Kiln House, I suppose this could be true, as I have it loosely in my head that they did that recording while dug in at the KH rental estate. We also know they recorded Penguin and Mystery To Me with the RSMS a few years later. But still, I have my nagging doubts. And if RSMS didn't actually factor in that early on, I can't believe they were self-equipped either, at least not per that time and place. Then again, how early did Pete Townsend set himself up?

How did that old Focus tune go? Questions, Answers? Answers, Questions!

I missed this bit in Hjort's book before, regarding Christine McVie's joining the band....he writes that she joined the group on every date of their US tour that began in New Orleans, but that she was not officially a member of the band at first. He goes on to write that within a week of the New Orleans show, the UK music press was given the news that she was now a member of Fleetwood Mac and that she now wanted to be known as Christine McVie rather than Perfect.

Interesting, and but another twist on the CM enlistment theme. I think it could best be guesstimated as August 1, if for no other reason than it works out to be the most agreeable compromise via all the takes.
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  #38  
Old 01-05-2009, 01:13 AM
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Originally Posted by snoot View Post
Indie labels, yes I could see that being a big part of the equation. As for the single resurgence, what medium was being utilized? Wouldn't much of that time frame be post-45's, but pre-digital? There was no Internet around until the early 90's, for all intents and purposes. Was there some kind of mini-CDs or discs that blew right by me?
Still mainly 45's in the late '70s, and increasingly 12" singles by the early '80s. CD singles started coming out later in the '80s (same format as regular CDs, just less music on them), but 12" vinyl singles have never completely gone away.

A side note....one of the first really big-selling 12" singles was New Order's "Blue Monday" in 1983, which was not included on their subsequent LP Power, Corruption & Lies. But similar to "Oh Well" and Then Play On, "Blue Monday" was added to the later CD release of PC&L.
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  #39  
Old 01-05-2009, 01:24 AM
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Originally Posted by sharksfan2000 View Post
Still mainly 45's in the late '70s, and increasingly 12" singles by the early '80s. CD singles started coming out later in the '80s (same format as regular CDs, just less music on them), but 12" vinyl singles have never completely gone away.

A side note....one of the first really big-selling 12" singles was New Order's "Blue Monday" in 1983, which was not included on their subsequent LP Power, Corruption & Lies. But similar to "Oh Well" and Then Play On, "Blue Monday" was added to the later CD release of PC&L.
Wild. Most of that went right by me at the time. 12'' singles, waka! I swear the last 45 I purchased must have been On The Road Again by Canned Heat. Or maybe something by CCR or the Doors or - for christ's sake - Country Joe & The Fish [ please say noooooooooooo ]. lol

Now I've always been gullible I suppose, but never so much so as when I raised my fist to Country Joe's fish cheer. "And forgive us our trespasses, as we forgive those who trespass against us" ... blah blah blah
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  #40  
Old 01-06-2009, 09:42 PM
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Country Joe did a fund raiser for a club i am in, this past summer to help us maintain a Hudson River Sloop called the "Woody Guthrie". It was built by Pete Seeger ,who is in the club, in 78, and Pete turned around and donated it to the club, providing we kept it afloat. Country Joe was doing a Woody Guthrie tribute tour and did the whole show for us. He may be banged about from the 60's but still has his wits about him and was a great show and is a good CD. The Fish were bigger than the DEad and Jefferson Airplane for a time. It would seem that Peter took a liking to him.

even if he was "rockhead"


sorry for the digression



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  #41  
Old 01-08-2009, 03:41 PM
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Moz, Keep going with the timeline! Don't let our frequent two cents and comments for revision deter you! I want to see more
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  #42  
Old 01-08-2009, 04:45 PM
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Originally Posted by doodyhead View Post
Country Joe did a fund raiser for a club i am in, this past summer to help us maintain a Hudson River Sloop called the "Woody Guthrie". He may be banged about from the 60's but still has his wits about him and was a great show and is a good CD. The Fish were bigger than the DEad and Jefferson Airplane for a time.
Not sure if they were ever bigger than the Dead or Airplane (you think?) but McDonald did have a nice little run there for a while. Not sure if you knew this, but he was sued for copyright infringement over his signature Fixing-To-Die-Rag anthem a few years back by Kid Ory's daughter, she claiming the chorus refrain was a ripoff of Muskrat Ramble, Ory's old Dixieland jazz standard. At the end of the day, the court didn't see it that way, awarding McDonald some $750,000 for attorney's fees and costs, after finding the complaint "objectively unreasonable." The decision was later upheld upon appeal, forcing Ory's daughter to sell the same very copyrights to fulfill the debt! Sweet justice over but another frivolous lawsuit and money grab? You tell me.

Though the Fish were an early example of psychedelic rock, it was often a case of acid rock gone wrong. With the exception of a few memorable tunes and blues licks, most of their stuff was too far out in left field, and fairly blasť and forgettable into the bargain (imo). On MacDonald's Superstitious Blues solo project, Jerry Garcia does make a guest appearance on the guitar on some of the tracks which is worth noting.

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Moz, Keep going with the timeline! Don't let our frequent two cents and comments for revision deter you! I want to see more
Yes, but those points of debate and "detours" often make for the best discussion, no?

To add to the din, onward Moz!
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  #43  
Old 01-08-2009, 04:55 PM
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Right now I'm going through Mick's book, finding more information. Hopefully I'll be able to update it during the weekend,
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  #44  
Old 01-08-2009, 05:14 PM
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Ah take all the time you need, the old guard and true Mac faithful aren't going anywhere - and we blow the pants off all those Stevie drones found ruminating elsewhere (across the hall). Ha!

Keep an eye out in whatever source material you have for where Kiln House was recorded. That one really interests me, though I'm not sure why.
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  #45  
Old 01-08-2009, 09:25 PM
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ETA: Added dates for Jan. 25 and Feb. 5, 6, 7 1969 to the timeline (first post on first page).

I took a peek at my Kiln House LP and, unsurprisingly, it didn't say where it was recorded. Hopefully Mick's book will give some clues.

About the Dragonfly single: I found this at this site : They also released a single at that time; "Dragonfly" b/w "The Purple Dancer" in the U.K. and certain European countries. The single was not a success and the B-side has only been reissued once, on a Reprise German-only "Best of" album, making it one of their most obscure songs.
I found a release date of March 5, 1971. Does that sound right?

From this site, more about Christine joining the band: Christine made her first appearance with the band at Bristol University in May 1969 just as she was leaving Chicken Shack. She had had success with the Etta James classic, "I'd Rather Go Blind", and was twice voted female artist of the year in England. Christine McVie played her first gig as an official member on August 6, 1970 in New Orleans.
August 6! I don't know if that's correct, but it's quite close to the guesstimation (I hate that word) of August 1.

Peter filling in after Jeremy left: Liable for the remaining shows on the tour they convinced Peter Green to help finish the tour. He brought along his friend, Nigel Watson, who played the congas (twenty-five years later Green and Watson would collaborate again to form the Peter Green Splinter Group).
Is this true?

As for finishing this timeline, I'm facing a bit of a dilemma. The rest of the information I have yet to post on here are tidbits from '67-73 and everything from 1974 (since this is the pre-Rumours forum, I won't write up the stuff after Stevie and Lindsey joined). Should I continue on and add solo albums and other works Pete, Danny, Jeremy, etc. released after 1974? And what about Mick's albums, John's cd, and Christine's albums? I mean, they were in the pre-Rumours Fleetwood Mac. I'm also considering adding albums John Mayall recorded, and personal information, like when the band members were married, but I'm not sure if anyone would be interested in seeing that.

And a completely unrelated question: What albums came with inserts/lyric sheets? I have the original version of Mystery to Me with "Good Things (Come To Those That Wait", but no lyric sheet (grieve_not, a member of livejournal.com, said so).

And memorabilia and merchandise--what was made? I know Peter had a sticker that said "Fleetwood Mac is swift" on a guitar case, there were two Penguin-era bumper stickers, and on the back of Heroes Are Hard to Find, Bob is wearing a shirt that simply reads "Fleetwood Mac".

EDIT: I got a usb record player for Christmas, so I am able to transfer records to mp3 format. I'd like to get "Good Things" up here for people to download, since it was never released on CD (as far as I know). If it's not on CD, it's not commercially available, so... my question is: would I get in trouble (from mods, admin, etc.) if I posted it here? And what other songs would I be able to upload?
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Last edited by Moz; 01-08-2009 at 09:40 PM..
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