Dont Stop at DNC

[CarneVaca]

Originally Posted by Patti

Ok that made me laugh--have a great day!

Oh, good. You know, I really should just stick to being the clown rather than getting all serious on people.

With that, I will take leave of this thread. It's giving me a headache.

[Johnny Stew]

Originally Posted by CarneVaca

Could the cynicism have something to do with the fact that all people get is pretty speeches every four years followed by total disregard for their needs? I don't see how what you've said above counters, or negates, what I said.

I knew you were going to throw that comment back at me.
Again, I say that these "pretty speeches" are required to show the voter where you stand, and what you hope to accomplish.
To think that a poltician is EVER going to deliver everything he promises, is to be woefully naive.

Originally Posted by CarneVaca

I won't even take the gratuitous shot at Clinton this time. But, really, if this were true, shouldn't we see a 90 percent turnout in November? You're saying these speeches give people hope, but they're still not voting. Because it's all vapid nonsense, right?

Well, no matter how great a speech Clinton (or anyone) might give, and no matter how much hope he might be able to instill, it's a fact of life that not everyone will be convinced or interested in "buying what he's selling."

But it's a fact of the matter, that Clinton did obviously reach enough people to get elected... twice. Not to mention leaving office with a very impressive approval rating, despite the Lewinsky and Jones scandals.

Originally Posted by CarneVaca

Mother Jones is a commie rag.

Well, don't forget that we're considered Commies for disagreeing with the War In Iraq!

Originally Posted by CarneVaca

But that's just it, Johnny, a good man would not be meddling in other countries' elections under the guise of unbiased monitor. A good man would not be collaborating with the Bush spooks to get rid of the democratically elected president of a country. Do you think I'm making this up?

The point: Jimmy Carter could just retire and be done with it. But, no, he's out there pushing the imperialist agenda, working with the very people he was lambasting last night from the podium. YOU'VE BEEN DUPED!

And yet, others might still see what he's doing as "good." It's all in the angle from which you look at it.

Originally Posted by CarneVaca

Aaarrgh... Well, it could be worse. You might have interpreted that Stevie is my hero.

My interpretation of your feelings towards Stevie, is quite the opposite... but I just chalk that one up to some people never being able to see the light!

[strandinthewind]

Originally Posted by CarneVaca

No, he's not!! That's my point. The man could just retire, attone for his sins and do nothing but good deeds.

He has chosen not to do that. He's messed with Haiti, the Dominican Republic, Venezuela and countless other nations. WHY?

I assert he thinks he is trying to do good deeds and I think some of these were good deeds. From what you have said, you do not. Thus, our disagreement.

[strandinthewind]

Originally Posted by CarneVaca

Never said that, Jason. You didn't read carefully enough.



No such thing. A problem is only unsolveable when the solution takes too much work.

We are headed for an all-out religious war with Islam. Make no mistake.

In post 67 - you said "Stop trafficking weapons. Start trafficking food, Jason. Stop exploiting, start helping to educate. Stop backing repressive dictators, start backing democratic political processes. Yes, after some years of doing this, the violence would stop. " - that is where I go that from.

[CarneVaca]

Originally Posted by strandinthewind

In post 67 - you said "Stop trafficking weapons. Start trafficking food, Jason. Stop exploiting, start helping to educate. Stop backing repressive dictators, start backing democratic political processes. Yes, after some years of doing this, the violence would stop. " - that is where I go that from.

From that you got this?

I think it would not. Moreover, if we somehow started giving them food and clothing and educated them when their govt.'s did not, do you really think ...

You don't see the difference?

[strandinthewind]

Originally Posted by CarneVaca

From that you got this?



You don't see the difference?

I thought you were saying we should stop trying to control them for their oil and instead provide relief like food and education instead. That is what it sounded like to me. But, I see the diff. now. However, I stand by my argument that nothing we do will please the zealots in the Middle East. We could all die right here and now and they would still plot ways to disrespect our memory. They hate us that much. Note: when I say "they" - I am talking about the crazy zealots and NOT all Muslims.

[CarneVaca]

Originally Posted by strandinthewind

However, I stand by my argument that nothing we do will please the zealots in the Middle East. We could all die right here and now and they would still plot ways to disrespect our memory. They hate us that much. Note: when I say "they" - I am talking about the crazy zealots and NOT all Muslims.

Jason, you may be right about the zealots. But "they" wouldn't have the power they do, and would ultimately lose it, if we did some of the things I prescribed. Believe me, that kind of hate cannot be sustained if the zealots cannot find followers among people who are well fed and are given prospects in life. Just look at us Americans, for crying out loud. Do you think a third-party solution would be so outlandish if we weren't so well fed? (Overfed even, according to National Geographic.)

The Vietnamese and Japanese have every right in the world to hate us and want to destroy us. Yet, we've been able to get friendly with them.

We're all just people, after all.

[strandinthewind]

The Japanese hate us?

[CarneVaca]

Originally Posted by strandinthewind

The Japanese hate us?

Jason, you really need to start reading more carefully. Take a breath, then read it again:

The Vietnamese and Japanese have every right in the world to hate us and want to destroy us.

[Hawkeye]

Originally Posted by CarneVaca

The Vietnamese and Japanese have every right in the world to hate us and want to destroy us. Yet, we've been able to get friendly with them.

you know what, you're right. The Japenese have much better reaasons for hating us then the middle eastern people yet they don't. We dropped freaking 2 nuclear bombs incinerating thousands of inocent people. But heh I guess the Japenese are forgiving

[Hawkeye]

and back to the ORIGINAL topic I jumped out of my seat when Clinton came out to Don't Stop.

[CarneVaca]

Originally Posted by Hawkeye

But heh I guess the Japenese are forgiving

Could be. Or, as I suspect, they found a better way to fight back.

[strandinthewind]

Originally Posted by Hawkeye

you know what, you're right. The Japenese have much better reaasons for hating us then the middle eastern people yet they don't. We dropped freaking 2 nuclear bombs incinerating thousands of inocent people. But heh I guess the Japenese are forgiving

I cannot believe you are actually arguing the Japanese have just cause to hate us based on WWII - which THEY started. I am not buying that at all. THEY attacked us first, it was unprovoked, they aligned with Hitler, and they showed no signs of surrendering. So, they got what they awoke IMO. It is a little hard to feel sorry for them in that light. So, despite the horrible loss of life (it was a war after all and they certainly killed their share of our innocent civilians in Pearl Harbor), that was a war they not we started. They, not us, are to blame. Then, we helped them rebuild despite all of that and we have been on friendly status with them for well over 20 years. If they are mad still at us for ending what they started, they just need to get over it. We did not make that scene - they did.

Interestingly, I do find it strange that at least we knew the Japanese were a concrete identified enemy state. The current terrorists are not as identified. Other than Afganistan, which was harboring OBL, and SH, who certainly was a terrorist even if you do not agree with the war there. But, other than that, the rest is murky. Is Saudi Arabia a terrorist state? is Iran a terrorist state. North Korea is, but here is to hoping the Chinese will squash them if they get out of line. So, the war now is seemingly endless and without a face. That is very scary!!!!

[CarneVaca]

Originally Posted by strandinthewind

I cannot believe you are actually arguing the Japanese have just cause to hate us based on WWII - which THEY started. I am not buying that at all. THEY attacked us first, it was unprovoked, they aligned with Hitler, and they showed no signs of surrendering. So, they got what they awoke IMO.

True, Jason, and they are probably not the best example. I'm sure I could have come up with better ones. Oh well. But they've gotten us back, anyway, haven't they.

By the way, the worst attrocities the Japanese committed in WWII were in China. They went on a horrible rampage of rape, violence and death in the city of Nanjing that had few precedents and probably has not been matched since.

So, the war now is seemingly endless and without a face. That is very scary!!!!

Yes. And both Democrats and Republicans sure know how to play to those fears.

[gldstwmn]

Originally Posted by dontlookdown

Looking forward to Ron Reagan Jr's speech tonight - I'm sure the Repubs will be tuning in

Nancy has declined to speak at their convention.