Peter Green, and Eric Clapton 1970

[slipkid]

1970 is a very important year for Peter Green, and Eric Clapton. One decided to leave his money ticket pending rock band at the period of a prosperous lucrative future, because he hated show business. The other drifted out of society a few months later after recording his last great album with Duane Allman. This person drifts away under the influence of heroin. While Eric was with Duane, Peter did studio sessions with Toe Fat, Memphis Slim, and his solo album. In November 1970, Peter played with Duane in New Orleans. If anyone has tapes, we need to hear them!

[Ms Moose]

Originally Posted by slipkid

1970 is a very important year for Peter Green, and Eric Clapton. One decided to leave his money ticket pending rock band at the period of a prosperous lucrative future, because he hated show business. The other drifted out of society a few months later after recording his last great album with Duane Allman. This person drifts away under the influence of heroin. While Eric was with Duane, Peter did studio sessions with Toe Fat, Memphis Slim, and his solo album. In November 1970, Peter played with Duane in New Orleans. If anyone has tapes, we need to hear them!

Whatever happened to the power- and meaningful opinion expressed at the end of this thread, slipkid?

YES - We need those tapes. They must be out there somewhere. A treasure like that couldn't be destroyed!!???

Anyway - IMO - you point to - the fact that the end of sixties beginning of seventies was bleak times in the "musicindustry" with drugs, insanity and deaths. The sixties innocense was lost and there was nowhere else to go. I suppose individuals had their own way of dealing with this fact.

Also the never-ending comparising of Green and Clapton. I remember seeing Clapton for the first time when he was on his first tour of Europe after the "lost years" - I think with Yvonne Elleman (around the time of the the Ocean Boulevard album). Somehow he has managed to stay with his nose above water (economically and in the "public eye") after years and years of addiction in some form or other (it didn't stop after the three lost years on heroin) - and he has been able to make music in a way that has conformed to many peoples taste (and is therefore a money-spinner). He might have had more intelligent management too. From interviews you always get the feeling that he so much wants to play the blues, but that he doesn't consider himself to be able to, really or to be "up there" with all his heroes.....

Peter Green also "left the public eye" in the early seventies, but he never returned the way Eric did. Also he didn't play or own a guitar for years. Green doesn't consider himself to be "up there" with his heroes either, or in Claptons league (!) - even though PG could make "Rudolph the red-nosed reindeer" sound like the blues like few others...

It would be interesting to hear some opinions about the difference between EC and PG as players? And as human beings?

Ms Moose

[doodyhead]

I first fell in love with eric claptons playng when cream hit the states. Ihe three artists I payed over and over were cream jimi hendrix and the doors. as I matured (Iwas 15) I was able to hear The beano album. I lved the economy of style and the predictable note patterns that lead me to the pentatonic scale. i later saw a documentary with eric showing how to do that. few other white payers knew that scale and had no backbeat and therefore he sounded miles apart. The brits however did. When I first got to hear PG it was the second mayall album, not FM and I heard roughly the same playing with a biot more nuance and control. Two different players with the same roots. I went toblack american blues players after that and soon found that both of them (EC and PG) were interpreting Black players but from different sensabilities. both with great tone but like from mars and venus

part one

[sharksfan2000]

Originally Posted by slipkid

In November 1970, Peter played with Duane in New Orleans. If anyone has tapes, we need to hear them!

Funny you should mention that, slipkid - I was just thinking the same thing, and mentioned it over on the Pre-Rumours board. The existence of recordings from Greeny and Duane Allman has been rumored for years, but they're never surfaced as far as I know.

[greenmanastrat]

I always thought that clapton was at his best when in band environment just being the guitarist. For me thats when he has shone in his career with the exception of derek and the doms.
For me hes not a great songwriter or singer for that matter but when in a band that he wasnt the leader there will be good results.

[doodyhead]

whoever hods the keys to Tom Dowds recordings may have3 an answer to the greeny Duane tapes

I too believe that clapton was at his best as a sideman
In Blind Faith he was an acomplice
great recordings with Mayall,Steve Stills, the Beatles, the list goes on
Alone he was more the pop persona whether he wanted it or not

but it is also true that it is very hard to front a band and be the soloist/accompaniest. it has so much more resposibility/ multi tasking at a very high level. Very few are up to that task or even want to do it.

It can be said that Peter too wanted to be the ultimate sideman. all the fun without the pressure.
Duane shared the experience of being an able sideman. Thats what makes for a good musician, not just a star

[slipkid]

Originally Posted by Ms Moose

Whatever happened to the power- and meaningful opinion expressed at the end of this thread, slipkid?

Since I didn't have any replies after 24 hours, I'd thought I'd delete the language that "might" insult fans of Eric Clapton. I'm also a fan, I just have a love/hate relationship with him.

What I was trying to say originally is that both guitarists were affected by drugs the same year. We all know about Peter, and LSD. With Clapton, I think he lost his "edge" after his heroin addiction.

A guitarist friend of mine has been a Clapton fan since his teens. He also knows that Clapton wasn't the same as a guitarist when he returned to public life in the early 70's. I've given him a lot of Peter Green, and he loves it. In fact he admits his style of play is more like Green, than early Clapton. Yet he cites Wolfgang's Vault's Cream 1968 L.A. concert of "Sitting On Top of the World" as one of his favorite Clapton solos. He loves early Clapton's "no one leaves alive" approach to his guitar solos. Yet he was reminded my argument of Boston Tea Party's "If You Let Me Love You", how dynamics and subtlety, then the sledgehammer have a bigger impact to the listener. This is reason I made the thread. I knew many of you would be on my side of the argument . I think both guitarists didn't want the pressure of being "the guy", which made them alike. What I don't get is that Peter Green was never shy onstage. His banter with the audience was some of the best I've ever heard. He was a lot like Pete Townshend in that department.



I think since Clapton has "retired", his old self has returned somewhat. His performance for "A Concert For George" was some of the most heartfelt guitar playing he had done in decades. His work with Cream in 2005 was some of his best blues guitar playing since the 60's. I haven't heard the Clapton/Steve Winwood concert from last year, but I may pick it up soon.



As for Green and Allman, I've read the rumors that Green did session work with the ABB at Muscle Shoals in 11/70. The tapes I'm referring to is the three hour "Mountain Jam" from The Warehouse in New Orleans. Yet if either exist, they need to be heard.

[greenmanastrat]

I think im agreeing with you basically slipkid i also have a love hate relation with claptons work.
But i think as you mentioned about greeny and his bantar etc that he was more than capable of leading the band or being the solo artist albiet relunctantly where as clapton is just MOR solo which just frustrates.

[chiliD]

I refuse to be baited by the Clapton bashing. One needs not put Clapton down to put Peter on his well-deserved pedestal right beside Eric.

[dino]

Originally Posted by chiliD

I refuse to be baited by the Clapton bashing. One needs not put Clapton down to put Peter on his well-deserved pedestal right beside Eric.

Agreed. There is a parallell though in that both made their defining work up until 1970, before the substance abuse etc.

[Russtyman]

I always say "There's no bad music. There's just music that you don't listen to." Peters profile is judged by the Hard Road and FM work. Claptons work tends to be diluted by the 45 years hes been playing. If he'd just done his 60's work he would be better thought of!

[Blue Horizon]

I did read your original post slipkid, and I must admit to being a little shocked of your treatment/feelings towards Eric. Having now read the revised post plus other's views I do think you have a valid point.
What I would add is that the Clapton/Winwood concert CD see's Eric's guitar playing back on form.........Just here those fiery licks on JH's Voodo Chile, plus his tribute album to Robert Johnson is hardly what I would call 'Pop songs' and is just as valid as a tribute blues album as Peter's 'Hotfoot Powder'.
I think we would all love to hear those Allman/Green 'Mountain Jam' tapes if they still exist.....lets hope they surface some day soon.

Blue Horizon

[Ms Moose]

Originally Posted by greenmanastrat

I always thought that clapton was at his best when in band environment just being the guitarist. For me thats when he has shone in his career with the exception of derek and the doms.
For me hes not a great songwriter or singer for that matter but when in a band that he wasnt the leader there will be good results.

I think you hit the nail on the head for me with your comment, and I have never thought about it like that before. It is true that the band environment is better for him. On Youtube you can see Clapton on lots of clips where he is having some of these horrible "show-down" type things with other guitarists, and he always look so uncomfortable and doesn't play very well in them.
Slipkid: In my humble opinion - the concerts with Winwood are brilliant, so listen to them when you get the opportunity. Steve Winwood is a very honest and fantastic musician. Flexing muscle doen't seem to be an issue between them

Ms Moose

[greenmanastrat]

Just have to say for the record in case it wasnt clear that I still love Clapton, just one listen to telephone blues is enough to make him immortal!

The parrallel drawn between Peter and Eric in terms of demise though I´m afraid i disagree with. Although they both obviously let their drug of choice consume them somewhat for a time i think more or less Eric remained intact and came out the otherside more or less the same guy.I would like to present eric clapton 1st solo album as exibit A for my case. Although i grew quite fond of the album with time and it does have a few nice cuts, in reality its as mediocre and irrelevant as any of his subsequent releases post derek and doms and heroin addiction(exception of journeyman).
Peter on the other hand has been on a much more arduous journey which just breaks ones heart to even contemplate.

[slipkid]

I don't know. If you go back and hear those recordings from the 60's, Clapton sounded like his life depended on every note. His first solo album technically was while he was in his haze, but it still counts as before he returned.

After he returned from his hiatus, his sense of urgency wasn't there anymore. Even on blues numbers such as "Further On Up the Road" with the Band ("Last Waltz"), there was something missing. Compared to Green it's very subtle, but it's there.

Has anyone seen the recent documentary about the "Concert For Bangladesh" film? They kept trying to get Clapton to come to New York for a week of rehearsals, and he'd always miss his flight. It wasn't until someone informed him that Jesse Ed Davis had taken his place, that he straightened himself out, and arrived for the concert. I think it was after that show, Clapton was out of the loop for about 18 months, if not longer.