Lindsey discusses his firing (Rolling Stone)

[jeets2000]

Originally Posted by bombaysaffires

I thought the same thing when I heard it-- that she meant he wanted to delay from June to Nov of the same year --2018-- which didn't seem like *such* a big deal.

But then she said the "a year" thing on tv, and all the subsequent print reports in the news picked up on this and said that the band wanted to go tour but Lindsey wanted them to delay for a YEAR-- so the "he wanted to delay things for a whole year" nonsense is all over the internet and news and magazine reports about the personnel change.

I may be giving Stevie too much credit here, but I think the mental gymnastics she went through to get to "a year" and believe it (because "Remember, Jerry: It's not a lie, if you believe it.") are as follows:

According to the complaint Lindsey filed in LA Superior Court, there was a band meeting in November 2017 that ended abruptly with Lindsey walking out after they reached an impasse regarding scheduling. According to the complaint, Lindsey ceded to Stevie's schedule demands, but that's neither here nor there with regards to the question at hand. Stevie is starting the clock at November 2017 when she claims Lindsey wanted to wait "a year" to tour (i.e., not until November 2018). That's relatively logical, until you realize that she made that claim during an April 2018 interview and the fact that the band pushed back the start date of the tour to the fall anyway due to the firing of Lindsey and hiring the other two.

Regardless of the "logic" behind it, you are right that the result has been the press taking that claim of Stevie's as fact and republishing it over and over.

[HomerMcvie]

Originally Posted by jeets2000

I may be giving Stevie too much credit here, but I think the mental gymnastics she went through to get to "a year" and believe it (because "Remember, Jerry: It's not a lie, if you believe it.")

$tevie lies as much as George Costanza, if not more. I've thought of this quote before, in reference to her. I think $he actually believes the sh*t $he spews.

[cbBen]

Here's what I think happened:

1. In November 2017 Lindsey and the rest of the band reach an impasse as Lindsey requests that they delay their tour to Nov. 2018
2. With Petty having passed away and Mike Campbell now available, Stevie and Mick plan to fire Lindsey, but with Musicares scheduled must wait for the moment
3. Lindsey meanwhile backs off his demand and agrees to tour as originally scheduled, but it's "too little too late" as Stevie and Mick have already planned to fire him (and, after Musicares, do)

Musicares probably wasn't even the final straw. They just needed to wait until it was over before they could make changes.

So in Stevie and Mick's mind the demand to delay the tour was the impetus for the breakup, while in Lindsey's mind that's a lie because he had agreed before his firing to accommodate their preferred tour schedule. (The thing is, however, that without the Musicares event, the band would have probably fired him sooner, before Lindsey backed off his request to delay the tour.)

One thing's for sure: They should never have let him delay his solo album and tour if they knew they were going to fire him regardless.

[David]

Originally Posted by cbBen

Musicares probably wasn't even the final straw. They just needed to wait until it was over before they could make changes.

Does anyone know how far in advance a band is told that it's going to win the music award? A month? Three months? A few weeks?

Originally Posted by cbBen

So in Stevie and Mick's mind the demand to delay the tour was the impetus for the breakup, while in Lindsey's mind that's a lie because he had agreed before his firing to accommodate their preferred tour schedule. (The thing is, however, that without the Musicares event, the band would have probably fired him sooner, before Lindsey backed off his request to delay the tour.)

One thing's for sure: They should never have let him delay his solo album and tour if they knew they were going to fire him regardless.

Another thing is for sure. The idea that a Buckingham solo tour would ever postpone a Fleetwood Mac tour by anything more than a few months is ridiculous. Even now, as an ex-member, Lindsey isn't touring for more than five or six weeks, right? Five or six weeks is nothing in Fleetwood Mac time.

These claims that Nicks made that his solo tour would keep Fleetwood Mac hanging for six or eight months are asinine.

[jeets2000]

Originally Posted by David

Does anyone know how far in advance a band is told that it's going to win the music award? A month? Three months? A few weeks?

It was announced July 19, 2017: https://www.grammy.com/musicares/new...es-person-year

[DownOnRodeo]

Originally Posted by jeets2000

MusiCares was announced July 19, 2017: https://www.grammy.com/musicares/new...es-person-year

And the earliest Classic date was July 15, 2017 (although it was announced in March, 2017).

This makes me think that once MusiCares was announced, Lindsey thought he had some bargaining power re the 2018 tour, because he assumed that the band would not break itself up after receiving such a major late-career honor.

Days after MusiCares, Stevie and Mick proceeded as planned.

[button-lip]

Originally Posted by David

These claims that Nicks made that his solo tour would keep Fleetwood Mac hanging for six or eight months are asinine.

And YET some people are STILL believing her while voting for her at RRHOF. Because it's easier that way.

[SteveMacD]

Originally Posted by cbBen

Here's what I think happened:

1. In November 2017 Lindsey and the rest of the band reach an impasse as Lindsey requests that they delay their tour to Nov. 2018
2. With Petty having passed away and Mike Campbell now available, Stevie and Mick plan to fire Lindsey, but with Musicares scheduled must wait for the moment

I don’t believe Tom’s death and Mike’s subsequent availability was a significant factor in Lindsey getting fired. At most, it may have caused Stevie to have a moment of clarity about wanting to be happy, but there were underlying issues that had nothing to do with Tom. It was pretty clear, at least to me, that there was a battle brewing with this tour last summer, months before Tom’s death, when Mick and Stevie started getting into the deep cuts while Lindsey couldn’t fake enthusiasm for taking a break from LBCM (new music) to play a festival show with Fleetwood Mac (same old, same old). Delayed tour, solo album getting delayed, concurrent tour, not signing on the dotted line...None of us know exactly what happened, but the story line going back to 2013, but even more so last summer, made it clear that things weren’t good in Fleetwood Mac.

It’s unfortunate Mike Campbell became available, but there were other legendary, iconic guitarists available if Tom hadn’t died. They could have easily gotten Jimmy Page. He’s not doing anything major without Led Zeppelin and he’d LOVE to be back on the arena rock circuit. His first phone call would have been to his travel agent to get him on the next flight to Maui and his second phone call would’ve been to Robert Plant to say “blow me.”

One thing's for sure: They should never have let him delay his solo album and tour if they knew they were going to fire him regardless.

I don’t think they had any control over his album getting delayed. IIRC, the original plan was Lindsey’s album was going to be released in early 2018, he was going to do a spring tour, and be back with the Mac for the current tour, but the label decided to delay the album.

[bombaysaffires]

Originally Posted by SteveMacD

I don’t believe Tom’s death and Mike’s subsequent availability was a significant factor in Lindsey getting fired.

It’s unfortunate Mike Campbell became available, but there were other legendary, iconic guitarists available if Tom hadn’t died. They could have easily gotten Jimmy Page. He’s not doing anything major without Led Zeppelin and he’d LOVE to be back on the arena rock circuit. His first phone call would have been to his travel agent to get him on the next flight to Maui and his second phone call would’ve been to Robert Plant to say “blow me.”
.

I agree Tom's death is not a factor, despite many wanting to make it one.

But....Jimmy Page?? I mean, yeah, I guess if he didn't care what he played and just wanted to get back on a posh tour (reminds me of an interview with Michael Caine talking about various movies he'd done and why he'd done them and he said about certain films "I did it for the money" or "I did it because I wanted to work with a certain director and didn't care that the movie wasn't that good"). (to be clear, I think FM's music is good...duh!) Otherwise, I can't realllllly see Jimmy Page being a support player for a twirling chick -- both onstage and offstage, as she is indeed now effectively running the band and calling the shots.

Also, musically, I just don't see his playing fitting their hits. Sure, the old FM blues stuff, but really, you can imagine him trying to adapt his style to play the required bits on Dreams, Gypsy, Never Going Back Again, Little Lies, etc etc??????? Before anyone freaks, I'm not saying he can't play the songs, but the guitar parts on any FM song are more melodic and integrated into supporting the song, not about showing off scorching solos, and don't have big, driving chords (esp not Stevie's songs, where he'd essentially be playing the same one or two chords throughout).

[SteveMacD]

Originally Posted by bombaysaffires

But....Jimmy Page?? I mean, yeah, I guess if he didn't care what he played and just wanted to get back on a posh tour

He’s kind of in the same boat as Mick and John. Without a singer, he doesn’t really have a job.

Otherwise, I can't realllllly see Jimmy Page being a support player for a twirling chick

Any worse than Robert Plant?

Also, musically, I just don't see his playing fitting their hits. Sure, the old FM blues stuff, but really, you can imagine him trying to adapt his style to play the required bits on Dreams, Gypsy, Never Going Back Again, Little Lies, etc etc??????? Before anyone freaks, I'm not saying he can't play the songs, but the guitar parts on any FM song are more melodic and integrated into supporting the song, not about showing off scorching solos, and don't have big, driving chords (esp not Stevie's songs, where he'd essentially be playing the same one or two chords throughout).

I get what you’re saying. The thing is, Zeppelin had that mystical side as well as the blusier stuff. Stairway, Battle Of Evermore, Babe I’m Gonna Leave You, etc. Plus, the violin bow thing would be cool AF on GDW.

[FuzzyPlum]

Originally Posted by bombaysaffires

I agree Tom's death is not a factor, despite many wanting to make it one.

But....Jimmy Page?? I mean, yeah, I guess if he didn't care what he played and just wanted to get back on a posh tour (reminds me of an interview with Michael Caine talking about various movies he'd done and why he'd done them and he said about certain films "I did it for the money" or "I did it because I wanted to work with a certain director and didn't care that the movie wasn't that good"). (to be clear, I think FM's music is good...duh!) Otherwise, I can't realllllly see Jimmy Page being a support player for a twirling chick -- both onstage and offstage, as she is indeed now effectively running the band and calling the shots.

Also, musically, I just don't see his playing fitting their hits. Sure, the old FM blues stuff, but really, you can imagine him trying to adapt his style to play the required bits on Dreams, Gypsy, Never Going Back Again, Little Lies, etc etc??????? Before anyone freaks, I'm not saying he can't play the songs, but the guitar parts on any FM song are more melodic and integrated into supporting the song, not about showing off scorching solos, and don't have big, driving chords (esp not Stevie's songs, where he'd essentially be playing the same one or two chords throughout).

When I first read that suggestion from SteveMacD I though 'what the ****?'
It was the most ridiculous thing I'd read in....ages.
But you know what....? its actually not that far fetched. I bet Jimmy would do it just to p!ss of Plant. Yes, he's pretty much idle at the moment. He loves touring. He loves the big life. Yes- I bet he probably would have said yes.

As Steve points out; Stevie...see Robert Plant

[bombaysaffires]

Originally Posted by SteveMacD

He’s kind of in the same boat as Mick and John. Without a singer, he doesn’t really have a job.


Any worse than Robert Plant?


I get what you’re saying. The thing is, Zeppelin had that mystical side as well as the blusier stuff. Stairway, Battle Of Evermore, Babe I’m Gonna Leave You, etc. Plus, the violin bow thing would be cool AF on GDW.

Originally Posted by FuzzyPlum

When I first read that suggestion from SteveMacD I though 'what the ****?'
It was the most ridiculous thing I'd read in....ages.
But you know what....? its actually not that far fetched. I bet Jimmy would do it just to p!ss of Plant. Yes, he's pretty much idle at the moment. He loves touring. He loves the big life. Yes- I bet he probably would have said yes.

As Steve points out; Stevie...see Robert Plant

So basically, then, he'd be doing it for all the Michael Caine reasons.

Fair enough. I don't know the politics and band dynamics within Zeppelin so will have to defer to you guys on that one. But isn't it funny the sort of predictable relationships across most bands between the lead guitarist and the singer. I watched a recent clip of Roger Daltrey and Pete Townshend doing something together live and Pete couldn't help take a swipe at Roger -- something to the effect of how Roger never wrote any of the songs, how he, Pete, did all the work musically. Roger refused to be drawn in and just said, "I still love you anyway, Pete".

Not knowing the inner workings of Led Zeppelin I am only able to try and imagine it musically, and I still see FM as on the whole far more pop than Zeppelin and a weird transition to plug Page into.

[AncientQueen]

Google "Jimmy Page and Lori Maddox" and tell me again that adding him to FM would be a good idea. I mean, all the big Rock'n Roll bands had their share of underage Groupies, but Jimmy Page is one of the worst offenders (besides David Bowie, Steven Tyler and (this Rolling Stones bass-player who was so boring that his name escapes me all the time) Bill Wymann). Robert Plant is not available because he is busy with his own projects, he does not sit around waiting for a gig.