Stevie Nicks Disappointed With Sales Of Her Latest Album

[vivfox]

Originally Posted by Macfanforever

This reminds me when I had some friends over about 30 years ago and somebody helped themselves to some cassettes that I had on the table.

I can't believe you still remember this.

They probably needed some blank cassettes and yours were readily available.

[michelej1]

Originally Posted by Macfanforever

Don't ask me why they wanted 3 self recorded tapes of country music and a part of a live Mel Tillis concert that I recorded a month earlier.

They all dont like country music.

I cant pinpoint who did it but I was will alert the next time they were around.

If they stole that, then you know they would take many other things. Too bad you never found out who did it. That led you to vaguely be suspicious of everyone who was there, which is a sad thing.

My recordings are so bad that no one else wants to even listen to them, much less take them from me. I remember sneaking recordings into concerts way back when. Putting black tape over the red light, so I wouldn't get caught by security. The sound was terrible, but it reminded me of being there and helped me relive the night, so it sounded good to me.

In the music business, I bet that happened a lot. If I were them, I would be paranoid about letting anyone have access to my demos. I certainly wouldn't let them lie around at parties. From the stories we've heard, it doesn't seem like other artists steal your music, but friends and hangers on sure expose it to a lot of people before you were ready to share it with the world at large.

Michele

[Macfanforever]

Originally Posted by vivfox

I can't believe you still remember this.

They probably needed some blank cassettes and yours were readily available.

No I dont forget those kind of things.

Yes .I agree .I got a feeling they needed blank tapes.I talked to my friend at the time which was there at the time and he might knew who did it but could not accused them for taking it.

He said he does not use the same tape grade that I use in which I do believe him and seen his vast tape collection later.

This happen around 1980 or 1981 before Belladonna came out.

I would of killed somebody if it was Stevie/FM tapes.

Originally Posted by michelej1

If they stole that, then you know they would take many other things. Too bad you never found out who did it. That led you to vaguely be suspicious of everyone who was there, which is a sad thing.

My recordings are so bad that no one else wants to even listen to them, much less take them from me. I remember sneaking recordings into concerts way back when. Putting black tape over the red light, so I wouldn't get caught by security. The sound was terrible, but it reminded me of being there and helped me relive the night, so it sounded good to me.

In the music business, I bet that happened a lot. If I were them, I would be paranoid about letting anyone have access to my demos. I certainly wouldn't let them lie around at parties. From the stories we've heard, it doesn't seem like other artists steal your music, but friends and hangers on sure expose it to a lot of people before you were ready to share it with the world at large.

Michele

Since this was when I was living home with my parents.

I think this happen when my mother called me to do something for her.

She could not wait for the guys to leave which I believe they were there for an hour or more. She needed what ever what had to be done , done now.

I did not notice anything other missing.After that I watched like a hawk when anybody is over and near my records/tapes and equipment.

My mom said noting else in the house was stolen at the time.

What a shame when friends got to be sneaky and steal from you.


Yes I was luck that I did copy the live tape before it disappeared .I did record the show live with a full sized AM/FM cassette portable and nobody cared at the time to check for those items .I had my hoodie or windbreaker over it as I walked in.The show came out great.


I was shock when Stevie said that in the docu.I said oh my god Stevie in my mind.

[Macfanforever]

I always said the sales are low for IYD.So is 300.000 is low these days for an older artists,

I dont blame her to be upset about crappy sales.I would be pissed off too.

[WildHearted]

I don't think it's low for an older artist, necessarily. But it's not what she achieved with TISL.

[PolishStevieFan]

Well sometimes big stars just stop selling big quantity of their records. Just look at Barbra Streisand's last two albums, they did not even sell 200.000 copies in US (I'm talking about "Release Me" and "What Matters Most"). I think that "In Your Dreams" sold decently as far as her age and huge gap between solo albums are concerned. Bonnie Raitt's latest effort also has not gone Gold yet and as we all remember she was huge seller in the late 80's and early to mid 90's. Stevie should be happy that still her album debuted in the Top 10. Other female rock acts can only dream of this kind of commercial success (just look at Benatar's or Rickie Lee Jones' latest chart trajectories).

[peer_gynt10]

Originally Posted by TheSorcerer

Stevie's solo career has never really been as big outside of the US that it is (was?) inside. Her sales outside of the US aren't actually THAT impressive, especially when comparing them with other female rock singers like Tina Turner who has released a similar amount of albums to Stevie and is held in a similar regard by both critics and fans.

Then there's the lack of touring in a lot of countries. Tina Turner did the right thing and made her presence known as a live act outside of the US and built up a strong following that way. Stevie has virtually ignored many places for the majority of her solo career and that's been a problem.

It's really Fleetwood Mac that has kept her in the public's consciousness for years now, especially in places like Europe where she's only really talked about when she's part of the group. She would have been old news years ago had it not been for the many FM reunion tours since the 1990s that she's participated in and which have upped her profile during the quieter periods of her solo career. Take Trouble in Shangri-La and Enchanted for example. I highly doubt either would have done as well as they did in the US had The Dance not happened in the late 1990s and reinvigorated interest in her.


You're crazy if you think Stevie doesn't care about the money. I highly doubt she continues to tour with Fleetwood Mac just for the fun of it.

What a well-written and accurate post. I agree whole-heartedly with most of what you write. Having lived in Europe for many decades, I always found it frustrating how Stevie not only ignored the world outside of the US when touring, but was blatantly ignorant of her potential market when writing her comments about 'B-Sides that only went to Europe' in the Enchanted booklet. How condescending! As if the rest of the world didn't exist and would never consider buying her albums. Well, boo-hoo if people don't care. Interestingly, Tina's Foreign Affair turned out to be the biggest album of her career in Europe (yes, Foreign Affair, not Private Dancer).

Having said that, one thing that did contribute a lot to Stevie's newfound popularity and visibility in Europe in the late 1990s was not necessarily The Dance reunion (after all, the only performed in the UK due to Christine's unwillingness to extend the tour), but the many cover and live versions that 'hot' and 'alternative' artists (Smashing Pumpkins, Hole, Sheryl Crow, Tori Amos) and pop artists such as The Corrs performed. In all fairness, no one in FM has been embraced this much by a younger generations of musicians (even in later years, think Deep Dish, Dixie Chicks, Dave Grohl). Stevie coulda/shoulda/woulda used that momentum in the late 1990s to reconnect with people as a solo artist instead of just being focused on the US, which arguably is the biggest record market in the world. TISL was totally ignored in Europe, so what chance did IYD stand?

Okay, I'll stop ranting.

[peer_gynt10]

PS: Don't get me wrong, I adore the woman. And her ego

[bethelblues]

Honestly, maybe the album cover had more of an impact in the low sales than Stevie may think. It is the first thing the public sees when they consider buying music. When I saw it, I was like barf. I was kind of embarrassed for her. That mystical quality is always there, it's ingrained, she doesn't need to hit us over the head with it. It spoke more to the style of a much younger artist (Taylor Swift or Katy Perry-esque) and I thought it was corny. I would've gone with a more artistic cover, some kind of collage or montage maybe of her different dreams together: the moonlight, Italy, the ocean, a road trip. I'm trying to speak to the mystical element and how in recent years it may sometimes come off as kitsch when Stevie tries to recreate the magic of her early career and goes over the top.

Also, I really appreciated reading the comparisons to Tina Turner, who I love. Thanks for that. I wonder if Stevie has ever met her (Does anyone know?). Tina was managed extremely well in her solo career with Roger Davies. They knew exactly where to target certain audiences, to build her Let's Stay Together and then Private Dancer comeback in the U.K. rather than the U.S. Her world tours were simply huge, filling the largest stadiums, and no one can match the energy and electricity Tina has given in her live performances. Her voice also kept much of its power for such a long time! She has always been beloved in Europe, more than her own country where I live, though obviously her tours sold out instantly everywhere. She also has the distinction of being the single highest selling solo act of all time. And Tina's public image is absolutely sterling.

There is actually a lot of similarity between Tina and Stevie: they both have a backstory that compels audiences, they persevered, they are rock icons, and are known for their one of a kind voices. Tina was never really a songwriter, which gives Stevie a different kind of respect. But Stevie hasn't been managed as well and, like Fleetwood Mac, didn't capitalize on certain peak instances in their career as some people have said. Tina pretty much swept the Grammys in 1985, with huge industry support and love. In the 90s, she knew to go back on the road following the What's Love Got to Do With It biopic, which received several key Oscar nominations, and put out an album following her Bond song Goldeneye. She used the fake retirement tour card several times to bring the crowds. I agree with what was said: Stevie didn't really ride the momentum of The Dance and jump on her newfound relevance. Many up and coming artists have turned to Stevie for inspiration, covering her enduring songs, which didn't happen so much with Tina Turner. I honestly think many young people didn't really connect with In Your Dreams, but instead connect to and continue to return to Stevie's older music. It's very hard for her to recapture that essence, but maybe just maybe following this hugely successful Fleetwood Mac tour she will be inspired to create new music with the band and maintain her relevance.

[Dex]

Originally Posted by bethelblues

Honestly, maybe the album cover had more of an impact in the low sales than Stevie may think. It is the first thing the public sees when they consider buying music. When I saw it, I was like barf. I was kind of embarrassed for her. That mystical quality is always there, it's ingrained, she doesn't need to hit us over the head with it. It spoke more to the style of a much younger artist (Taylor Swift or Katy Perry-esque) and I thought it was corny.

Have Stevie's album covers ever been all that great, though? Trouble in Shangri-La and Crystal Visions are the only ones I can think of that I particularly like, and even they're kind of "eh". She just seems to settle on a cover that seems passably marketable, even though they never really match the album's contents very well.

While we've established that Stevie herself isn't actually really disappointed with IYD's sales, it's clear in this thread that a lot of fans really are, and continue to be puzzled by it. I find that very interesting. Stevie's made a transition from pop megastar to cult singer-songwriter, and I think, because she pulls in a huge nostalgia-seeking audience as a live act, that's a fact that's not always easy to see. There's a huge discrepancy between the crowds she draws as a live act and the albums she sells, because those nostalgia-seeking audience members just aren't interested in new material from her. The fact is, she has a core fanbase that loves her work, but outside of that, her new material just isn't going to create all that much buzz no matter what. We can pick apart whatever flaws in her career we like, but essentially she isn't ever going to be able to get it "right" in terms of hitting a commercial sweet-spot. She just isn't an artist with a broad appeal anymore. I think that's just fine.

[bluefox4000]

Originally Posted by Dex

Have Stevie's album covers ever been all that great, though? Trouble in Shangri-La and Crystal Visions are the only ones I can think of that I particularly like, and even they're kind of "eh". She just seems to settle on a cover that seems passably marketable, even though they never really match the album's contents very well.

While we've established that Stevie herself isn't actually really disappointed with IYD's sales, it's clear in this thread that a lot of fans really are, and continue to be puzzled by it. I find that very interesting. Stevie's made a transition from pop megastar to cult singer-songwriter, and I think, because she pulls in a huge nostalgia-seeking audience as a live act, that's a fact that's not always easy to see. There's a huge discrepancy between the crowds she draws as a live act and the albums she sells, because those nostalgia-seeking audience members just aren't interested in new material from her. The fact is, she has a core fanbase that loves her work, but outside of that, her new material just isn't going to create all that much buzz no matter what. We can pick apart whatever flaws in her career we like, but essentially she isn't ever going to be able to get it "right" in terms of hitting a commercial sweet-spot. She just isn't an artist with a broad appeal anymore. I think that's just fine.

Real truth spoken. You hit the nail on the head.

Mick

[The Catdancer]

What I don't get is that people keep comparing Stevie to Tina Turner. Tina was already huge in Europe (with Ike) before she came back with Let's Stay Together. Everybody remembered her from the 60's and early 70's. Stevie was a nobody in that time period. What she should have done was come to Europe and promote her solo records. Especially BD, people were starting to forget her and whenever you mentioned FM they'd know her as the "blonde with the top hat". Record companies wanted her to come over to do promo tours for BD, WH and RAL but she cancelled every single time. By the time TOSOTM was released and she finally did come over, it was too late. She performed at a show called Rock Over Europe and 90% of the people had no idea who she was. I don't know about other countries but the show in The Netherlands (Nov. 1989) wasn't sold out. The arena was half full and half of those people came to see Richard Marx. It was all downhill from there (solo wise).

[shackin'up]

Originally Posted by The Catdancer

What I don't get is that people keep comparing Stevie to Tina Turner. Tina was already huge in Europe (with Ike) before she came back with Let's Stay Together. Everybody remembered her from the 60's and early 70's. Stevie was a nobody in that time period. What she should have done was come to Europe and promote her solo records. Especially BD, people were starting to forget her and whenever you mentioned FM they'd know her as the "blonde with the top hat". Record companies wanted her to come over to do promo tours for BD, WH and RAL but she cancelled every single time. By the time TOSOTM was released and she finally did come over, it was too late. She performed at a show called Rock Over Europe and 90% of the people had no idea who she was. I don't know about other countries but the show in The Netherlands (Nov. 1989) wasn't sold out. The arena was half full and half of those people came to see Richard Marx. It was all downhill from there (solo wise).

Exactly. I was at that weird Marx-Nicks show. They had to shut down the upper ring of the arena and they curtained it. the show was seated, on loose chairs, because we never do that in AHOY, Rotterdam. It was a bit of a sad atmosphere, although she did some songs that came out great, HAEWAFY, Edge of 17, the whole show was lackluster. She almost fell from stage, I was in awe that I saw her live, but was very dissapointed too. She never totally won me back since then. In the Netherlands, in the public eye she indeed is still the beautiful girl from GYOW.
OK, and Dreams and a little bit from Sara.

[bethelblues]

Well, I think the point of the Tina Turner comparison was to look at how both were managed, and how one capitalized on certain high points in her career and one didn't. In fact, Fleetwood Mac has also showed similar lack of direction, again probably coming from the fact that every member had a separate management team which made it hard to make decisions quickly and get everyone on the same page. That was my reading of the initial post on Turner and why I wanted to expand on it, as I do think that Tina and Stevie have quite a few similarities, genre of music of rock transitioning to adult contemporary, the backstories that compel people to want to see them, the big hair.

Originally Posted by The Catdancer

What she should have done was come to Europe and promote her solo records. Especially BD, people were starting to forget her and whenever you mentioned FM they'd know her as the "blonde with the top hat". Record companies wanted her to come over to do promo tours for BD, WH and RAL but she cancelled every single time. By the time TOSOTM was released and she finally did come over, it was too late.

This was well said.

[HejiraNYC]

I find the comparisons between Stevie and Tina Turner to be beyond absurd. The biggest and most obvious distinction: Stevie is an artist and Tina is a singer. Big difference. Of course Tina is an exceptionally gifted entertainer with a big, unique voice. And she has recorded some great songs (written/produced by some of the most successful writers/producers in the business). But Tina is a singer who entertains for the sake of entertainment, which is a means to her ultimate objective of making a lot of money. Her entire post-1980 career was managed accordingly. Tina was a chameleon who adapted herself in whatever means necessary to be commercially successful. If they needed a rock song, an R&B song or a torchy power ballad, all they had to do was reach into the Rolodex and find someone to crank out a song to fit the genre. In terms of trading on her sexuality, it seems that Tina, despite her age and decidedly stocky figure, would shoehorn herself into the most skimpy outfits to garner the most attention- all, again, in the interest of increasing her appeal to mass audiences. She would sing any song, wear any outfit or dance any dance that would be considered "marketable." And Buddah knows all of those efforts paid off handsomely in terms of commercial success- she hit the road and shimmied and shook her way around the world on marathon tours. But at the end of the day, one has to wonder who Tina Turner really was as a person beneath the teased wigs, pounds of pancake makeup and patent leather miniskirts. It is quite telling that, now that Tina has truly, truly retired from show business and all of the show business machinery, that she is finally revealing her true self through her current spiritually-related pursuits. If she insisted on doing spiritual music during the early 1980s, she would not have become the superstar that sold out football stadiums around Europe.

On the complete other end of the spectrum, Stevie is an artist who ascended to mainstream stardom despite her idiosyncracies. Nobody told Stevie what to sing (except for the Timespace songs). Nobody told her what to wear. Nobody told her how to incorporate verb tense and voice in her lyrics (we see what happened when Lindsey tried!). If Stevie received external help (e.g., Tom Petty, Dave Stewart, Michael Campbell), she was the one to ask for it. She decides when/where/how her albums are made and she determines her own setlists and album tracking. Unlike Tina, Stevie's music is a direct (but opaque) reflection of herself and corresponds to her own life experiences. Although Stevie has certainly enjoyed all the spoils that come with fame and stardom, and she clearly enjoys her wealth, she still does projects on her own terms, despite the commercial ramifications. At the height of her fame, she still took the time to work on "lesser" obscure projects to help out friends (e.g., Sandy Stewart, Walter Egan, Robbie Patton, etc.). She could have easily shifted stylistic direction to fit with the times, but she stuck with her guns and demonstrated that she could be "sexy" on her own terms without resorting to crass displays of overt sexuality, e.g., fishnet stockings, hooker heels, miniskirts, etc. Indeed, to this day, I think anybody would be hard pressed to find pictures of Stevie with her bare legs revealed above the ankles, let alone a bikini. In fact, one could argue that she is perhaps the most covered up "sex symbol" in history. She followed her own muse, the commercial gods be da**ed.