Anyone Else...

[bombaysaffires]

Originally Posted by cliffdweller

It's because he was in the pool too long

one of the funniest Seinfeld's ever!

[michelej1]

Originally Posted by bombaysaffires

Oh I totally think there were physical altercations in their relationship. I think these two continue to have a co-dependent relationship, still a bit unhealthy to this day. Better than what it was, but still codependent. Lots of money at stake makes people tolerate a LOT of things.. and I do think having to still deal with each other during the aftermath of their breakup fed a lot of their drug use. I get the feeling Stevie's loyalty to Fleetwood Mac over many years has to do with Mick (and then Chris and John) rather than with Lindsey.

And though I wouldn't say she had a "loyalty" towards Lindsey exactly, I think Stevie is still with the Mac because of him and when he wasn't there, she didn't want to be there either. She said the same that herself and Mick said that during the Cage tour she was unsettled and unhappy because she wasn't used to being on stage without Lindsey. She has defined him as the Mac and said there is no Mac without him and I think she feels that. She is aware of the money that touring makes for John and Mick and I think she is happy when she can help build that security for them, but when Lindsey wasn't there, she lost that incentive to help them make money.

Originally Posted by bombaysaffires

I think that has mellowed over the years but I still believe that when Stevie makes her comments about living through a "nightmare" and "no one knows what REALLY went on" with the band and her and Lindsey, his anger management issues are definitely part of what she refers to.

I've seen her say that no one knows everything that went on many times, but I never heard her discuss life with Lindsey or FM as a "nightmare." I've only seen her describe the Klonopin years that way. I have heard her say that hers and Lindsey's relationship was always volatile.

Michele

[michelej1]

Originally Posted by GreenMagic

Thanks Nico for your post.

I found through some sources close to the Dylans that it was a lie. That Sara made that up as a tactic to get sole custody of their kids. Which is why their divorce documents when officially got finalized got sealed. Cause there were revisions made such as taking that incident out once there was a settlement.

I don't know if Sara lied or not, but that's the reason I don't believe everything that I read. People lie and you never know what their incentives might be. Even in well-documented cases you don't know. For instance with Woody Allen, it's a fact that he cheated on his girlfriend with her underage daughter, but all the stuff that Mia later said about him to gain sole custody of the son they had together was very suspect. After he had been publicly exposed once, it was easy to accuse him of pedophiliac behavior and to be believed by some, if not most, without offering much evidence in the way of support. Like snowballs that grow, rolling stones do tend to gather moss and it's often hard to find your way back to the core of truth.

Michele

[Nico]

Originally Posted by GreenMagic

As far as John Lennon, I've read too many repulsive things he did in his personal life. It really tainted the music for me. But if you can get past it that's awesome. I can't mainly because some of the same tragedies that happened to him I experienced as well. And I never used it as an excuse to be terrible to people. Guess I'm too close to be objective.

I have an issue with this. Not because I don't think John committed sins and made errors, but the fact that you've chosen to believe every word of what has been written against him. Those who knew John the best-including his ex-wife- had incredibly wonderful things to say about him. Most of what has "tainted" his image was written by people who never even knew him. But to each his/her own. I am not going to judge another person's mistakes. And I don't feel that because my childhood may seem , on surface, similar to said person's childhood that that gives me some advantage where the judging is concerned.

Each person deals with a tragedy in their own way. There is no outline that will give us a deep understanding of an individual's pain or grief, how they react to bad situations, or how these situations affect them. Just as you explained allegations against Bob, I would like to stand up for John. He was not evil, nor did he commit despicable things in his life. He wasn't a great father to Julian and he wasn't the best husband to Cynthia. But he was not the ONLY musician who made mistakes, so I can't say that his errors have tainted any of his (flawless) music for me.

Leaving this post with Ringo:

“I was a big fan of John. I always felt he had the biggest heart, and he wasn’t the cynic that people thought… And he was the fastest. He was in and out. While we were still getting in, he was out and on to the next round.”

[GreenMagic]

@Nico -

I want to restate I genuinely that's good if you can look past John's mistakes. I want to stress I'm not trying to change your mind with what I'm about to say.

Just to explain in more detail why I feel the way I do. In Cynthia's book Johm she describes an incident Julian told her about that happened at his birthday party in 79.

They were having a good time. And someone did something humorous. Julian starts laughing hard. Without warning, John screams "Shut up! Stop laughing. I hate the way you f---ing laugh. Don't do that ever again."

John wasnt the subject of the humorous event BTW. This event traumatized Julian for years. Where he would never laugh in public. He only got over it once he got older. Oh yeah, he also left Julian out of his will. Real classy move there.

Also, when John was going through his immigration issues, Bob Dylan vocalized his support in the media for John to be able to stay. He also wrote a letter to the president encouraging him to make John a legal citizen of the united states.

How does John reward that friendly gesture? He slags Dylan off in interviews once he comes out of his house-husband phase. Then writes Serve Yerself as a takedown on Bob.

I actually enjoyed the satire of Serve at first. Until I read about what Bob did for john. I was bewildered like anyone else when Dylan went through his born again phase. But in retrospect I think he went crazy cause of the divorce from Sara. And I think like he mentioned in chronicles with recording a country album then being pictured in israel to alienate people so they would leave him alone.

I think the christian period was partly the same. He was tired of being worshipped again so to speak. And I think he knew that going into Christian music would alienate his audience. But I think he was lost mentally and vulnerable. A combination of those factors I think lead him into being born again.

But eventually he snapped out of his depression and went back to Judaism. Getting back to my point, regardless of what Dylan was doing at the time, for John to be so vindicative in such a vulnerable period was wrong.

You dont treat friends that way. Also reading Geoff Emerick (beatles engineer) book he was very unjustly nasty to him. There is also the fact he helped in getting Paul busted for weed. (Though Yoko did most of the dirty work). And the reason was because Paul told John on the phone he was staying in the same hotel room that him and Yoko stayed in. He was afraid of Paul ruining his good karma there. John was heavily into mysticism and astrology at the time thanks to Yoko Those are just a few of the incidents.

Again, not trying to change your mind Nico, just explaining my point of view. I kept trying to look the other way. But when you find out more and more negative things about John coming from his own friends/family/colleagues it just becomes a buzzkill.

The man is a brilliant musician. I think he wrote some of the greatest songs ever. He lost touch with his own humanity. That is too disturbing to not let it distract me from enjoying his music.

Again, props to you Nico for staying true to John. I can't sadly enough. At least Lindsey worked on himself to his credit. So in the end I can still enjoy his work.

[Nico]

Yikes. I have so many things to say to all you wrote. Much of what you have written are merely half-truths and not even true (not necessarily your fault). Also, it seems you are taking something very silly/satirical and making it into something intentionally created to hurt, i.e.,"Serve Yourself". (You do realize that that particular song was not even released by John, right? That was just done in good humor in his bedroom or kitchen...yep, such was the utter brilliance of that man that throwaways could be taken that seriously.) Artists are not that anal about every little song/poem/word written about them. In any case, Geoff Emerick was, and remains, a Paul lackie. He hardly criticized John to the extent he slagged off George Harrison, dragged Ringo through the dirt, and brushed off George Martin's genius. I really don't pay him any mind. As far as what John did to Julian...parents can mess their kids up with very random acts of cruelty. What you fail to focus on is that John and Julian started getting very close towards the end of his life, that he made a valid effort to bond with his son, and that he had become an incredible father to his son Sean. People grow up, and John definitely did. I'm kind of done talking about it on here. PM me if you want to discuss further, as this is your Lindsey thread and I want to respect other Ledgies' desire to read about the Mac and not gossip about John Lennon's life- much of which is exaggerated and meant to hurt him post-mortem.

[ButterCookie]

Originally Posted by Nico

Not because I don't think John committed sins and made errors, but the fact that you've chosen to believe every word of what has been written against him. Those who knew John the best-including his ex-wife- had incredibly wonderful things to say about him. Most of what has "tainted" his image was written by people who never even knew him. But to each his/her own.

This is the most important thing in this thread for me. I think unless someone knows Lindsey, or anyone famous, personally and has experienced the matter in question first hand then everything you read about them should perhaps be taken with a pinch of salt. Even if they say it themselves. The media is a cruel mistress.

Personally, nothing I have read about Liddy has made any difference to the way I listen to his music (except maybe "I was not shacking up!" because just the way Stevie said that makes me giggle every time) because like lots of other people who've said the same, his work and his personal life are two separate things to me.

[vivfox]

Originally Posted by Lindsfan

I recall a very messed up David Hasselhoff a few years ago going nuts on the phone with his young daughter.

I believe that was Alec Baldwin. David's daughter's filmed him on the floor drunk, sloppily eating a hamburger.

[bombaysaffires]

Originally Posted by michelej1

I've seen her say that no one knows everything that went on many times, but I never heard her discuss life with Lindsey or FM as a "nightmare." I've only seen her describe the Klonopin years that way. I have heard her say that hers and Lindsey's relationship was always volatile.

Michele

Oh I definitely have. If I had time I'd try digging some of the articles out, but I don't right now. At some point if I can, I will.

[michelej1]

Originally Posted by bombaysaffires

Oh I definitely have. If I had time I'd try digging some of the articles out, but I don't right now. At some point if I can, I will.

Yes, please share if you find it. I only have her describing those times as volatile and she also says "tumultuous." "Nightmare" is reserved for what she experienced in later years, from what I've read.

Michele

[sodascouts]

As I've said elsewhere, for what it's worth, while I believe that in the past he may have acted out like that, I also believe he's changed and past mistakes should not necessarily be held against someone. I think he's the greatest living guitarist regardless.

[Dragonfly]

Hi everyone,

I've been visiting this site for many years and finally plucked up the courage to post!

I got into the band during the Tango In The Night era (that album was massive in the UK at the time) and fell in love with Lindsey, all of them in fact, but him in particular.

I'll stick with the subject though. I've read and seen many interviews with him, seen him in concert etc... much like many here, and I get the impression he has struggled with things that have happened in his life, the loss of his father (and later brother), his break up with Stevie, Carol Ann, Sherie. His frustration that Tusk wasn't appreciated at the time, his solo career not taking off like he'd hoped (and seeing Stevie having huge success) and I think he has battled with shyness/insecurity too. I get the impression that he was the 'black sheep' of the family, his father died before he really made it and I think it's caused him problems.

His epilepsy and drink/drugs has been a factor as people have said. Does it excuse him if he's been violent? No, of course not. However I agree with others, Stevie has said that her parents adored him, her brother toured with him I believe, now if my daughter/sister had been abused there is no way in hell I'd adore them or even give them the time of day, not a chance.

Lindsey has also been with his wife now since what 1997? That's a long time by any standards these days, and unless he has a strict pre-nup in place I doubt she'd tolerate any form of abuse from him. His kids also seem very comfortable around him.

I've rambled, but just to finish - firstly I really think Ken is out of order for saying some of the things he's said, didn't he also say something about Lindsey not enjoying being a father to Will until he was a few months old? Lindsey I'm sure didn't expect him to repeat that in public in case it upset his son when he was older. Secondly, as people have already said, how do we know that tons of people in the public eye haven't done similar or worse? John Lennon has been mentioned, but Bono, Sting or Mick Jagger could have done much the same. In fact Jagger pleaded with Jerry Hall not to release her biography, it never did get released - what (besides bedding anything with a pulse which was common knowledge anyway) did he have to hide?

Lindsey was a sweetheart when they toured England a few years ago (easily the nicest and most attentive of the band) so I think he has changed and unless something very bad comes out I'll never stop being a fan.

Apologies for long post!

P.S, I also love Tango (but not keen on Mirage).

[michelej1]

Originally Posted by Dragonfly

firstly I really think Ken is out of order for saying some of the things he's said, didn't he also say something about Lindsey not enjoying being a father to Will until he was a few months old?

What Ken said about Lindsey was:

“He said, ’I’m a selfish guy.’ Which is true, he’s all about me, me, me. He admitted he had even been angry about having a child to start with. Then one day the kid grabbed his little finger and he just got it. He understood there was another world out there.”

[Dragonfly]

Originally Posted by michelej1

What Ken said about Lindsey was: “He said, ’I’m a selfish guy.’ Which is true, he’s all about me, me, me. He admitted he had even been angry about having a child to start with. Then one day the kid grabbed his little finger and he just got it. He understood there was another world out there.”

Yes, that was it, thanks Michele.

Ok, not a big deal maybe - but I'm guessing Lindsey wasn't expecting him to tell an interviewer that he'd been 'angry' about having a child.

Ken just seems p*ssed off with the lot of them, and vice versa judging by their lack of contact with him.

That said, I always thought he (Ken) came across as a nice guy on the many docs I've seen him in.

[BlueDenimLamp]

Originally Posted by tilthefirefades

All I really get from this thread is, it's ok to make fun of Stevie until the end of days. But touch Lindsey and all hell breaks lose. But what I don't get is the aggressiveness used. A "chiffonhead" defends Stevie and we are dumb and ignorant fans that need a life. But how dare you bring up Lindsey's past, he is a perfect angel.

BUMP!

Look 4 years later and nothing has changed...