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#76
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Even though Stevie had way more solo hits, Chris had way more Mac hits, and, afaik, no humongous coke problem. Rolling Stone's top moneymaker's list had her at #35, with 24 million(those #s are from memory, so don't ride my butt if I'm off by a number).
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#77
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This is useless
Here we go again and again and again.....it's always this way.
There's a heavy implication from some that if you prefer Stevie's songs, then you aren't very smart and just don't "get it", and then from still others that if you prefer Lindsey's songs then you are an egghead just wanting to besmerch The Goddess that is La Nicks. :: It's all a matter of taste, and people like what they like. Pitting them against each other is an exercise in futility. -Sharon
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"I fought to prove something to her as well as to myself. You wonder what you gave up in order to prove that." Lindsey, in a joint 1997 interview from Stevie's house. |
#78
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The generic Nicks bashing ;)
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Stevie sings on 30% of Lindsey’s Fleetwood Mac songs. So if that makes the rest derivative crap for some then phooey. You didn’t say that, it’s my imagination running free again. Quote:
The reason as to why I give Lindsey 50% of the credit is because of the overall conception of sound he has. Pet Sounds is considered Brian Wilson’s album even though the other Beach Boys are singing on it and there’s plenty of legendary studio musicians, such as Hal Blaine, playing on it. While there was significant outside influence for the album there always needed to be the main creative force, the one who initiated most of it. Now Fleetwood Mac is a band, I’m not going to deny that. That’s a big part of their appeal. But even so I could see Lindsey throwing Mick, John and Chris out of the instrumental picture in some of the tracks and putting on the OOTC treatments (c’mon Gerald, just complain about the drum sound yet again ). Not to mention that the three veterans of the band always considered themselves as the rhythm section. Remember what David wrote? Quote:
So if we take the UK section of the Rumours line-up as “just a rhythm section” (blasphemy, I know) then I don’t think it was their job to constantly grab the common listeners’ attention. They provided the solid backbone, and I think it’s mainly the musicians who will appreciate their contributions over the Americans. Now the persons who grab the attention of the common listeners are Lindsey Buckingham and Stevie Nicks. I’ve said it before, even though I find Stevie an outstanding vocalist her solo music leaves something to be desired. It is essentially an inferior, mainstreamisized take on the sound that she first tried out with Fleetwood Mac. That’s why I think her solo career is still in Fleetwood Mac’s shadow, just because she’s the one who clings to the old perceptions of FM the most. ‘S all my opinion and has been discussed to the point until your eyes have started to bleed. But for me half of the emotion on a Nickssong as done by FM often comes from Lindsey Buckingham’s guitars. It’s those that most obviously separate it from the muck that was floating around the charts at the time because the subtleties of the rhythm section can be easily ignored. Quote:
I will never deny that CM is the best songwriter of the band in the classic sense and I will never deny her own ideas for her own keyboard parts. She was supposedly the one in the band who was the most against experimental tendencies, however, and I fear that if Lindsey wasn’t playing on her tracks I might have thought she was just another inferior version of Carole King. When I listen to the piano demo of “Never Make Me Cry”, for instance, I think it’s a good song with heartfelt emotions. But when I listen to the final take on Tusk, the lyrical meaning changes completely when that backing track sounds like it’s a huge, empty, distant hum. The mix of intimacy (in Chris’ vocals) and distance is what makes that track heartbreaking for me. That’s what I think anyway. I don’t think it’s that dubious to call Rumours et al. Lindsey Buckingham’s albums. It’s the same as focusing on “Peter Green’s Fleetwood Mac” when the band featured two other skilled singer-songwriter-instrumentalists. And it’s the same to those Nicksfans who latch on to Stevie’s harmonies in other people’s songs. Now that the reissues came out some people seemed to start loving tracks they had previously only liked because of Stevie’s vocals having been added to the Rumours songs. Putting the other band member over the other is unfair, definitely. And I don’t think pitting the songwriters against each other is terribly wise, especially when you consider that they have different styles. All I was trying to establish here was that there’s a valid reason to respect Lindsey Buckingham’s work to the extent that some of the stubborn Buckheads are doing it. Those guitars and arrangements can mean as much as anything Stevie does in her songs. They do that to me, at least. And considering the fact that many people who listen to rock and roll still focus on the singer or the guitarist and not the rhythm section, then there’s nothing surprising in this “injust LB-worshipping”. IMO, of course. Now let’s just wait ‘til the Nicksheads and the McVie troupe get to this.
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Gaius ^ - "a selfindulged, but funny butthead of a Fin" - Shackin'up |
#79
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Sharon, I thought you were content with being a FOLAS and didn’t even want to try to change anything here.
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There is nothing inaccessible in Lindsey’s work and no high-brow attitude, at least I haven’t detected any. And I’m not trying to enforce something like that at all. “Family Man” as an example here again; the lyrics stink to high heaven, yes. But he wouldn’t put those weak lyrics to a final track if he didn’t deem them appropriate. If you sang those lyrics in an overtly serious tone then I would hate it. But put them through the voice treatments and it’s a pure pop perversion according to the fine traditions of the Beach Boys’ Love You album. There’s lots of other layers in there than the one that strikes most people’s ear first. But it doesn’t mean that Lindsey’s more artistic and deeper than Stevie. They do their things in different ways and still move me almost equally. They both have songs that can be instantly appealing and they both have songs that can be esoteric and take a while to get used to but that’s the great thing about their work. So that’s why I won’t buy into that aspect of the fight at all, in spite of my incessant criticisms. I need them both in my life, period.
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Gaius ^ - "a selfindulged, but funny butthead of a Fin" - Shackin'up |
04-16-2004, 05:29 PM |
trackaghost |
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#80
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I just tend to disagree, The GOS-songs just have something sparkling going on, so are stevie's on SYW, due to the tremendous interaction between the three instrumentalists. Illume, RTTG, EFO, Come, Miranda, with the OOTC-treatment? I don't see it. not without losing a lot of the energy. Or Linds should buy Mick's Sonic Foundry-sample-CD. But then again: Think of John's contributions on the whole album. Lindsey has NEVER put in such killerbasslines on solo-albums as john did this time. Hey, He's my hero, but we have to keep ourselves sharp and critical!
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04-16-2004, 05:49 PM |
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#81
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04-16-2004, 06:23 PM |
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#82
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I really like "Behind the Mask" and still to this day think it's very underrated. |
#83
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On the live versions, certainly... but not on the album version. The backing vocals are so homogenized, that you can't make out ANY of the three vocalists (excepting Lindsey's lead vocal over top). So if fans cite that as a favorite based on Stevie's backing vocals, then they must have far better hearing than I do. Quote:
Lindsey is the studio wizard behind their sound (though certainly not belittling Ken Caillat and Richard Dashut's hand in that), Christine has been the one responsible for most of their biggest radio hits, and Stevie's been the one whose charisma has largely been responsible for Fleetwood Mac's bankable identity. But to give any one of them HALF of the credit for the band's success is utterly unfair. Quote:
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He gets a lot of respect these days... which he should, and which is long overdue. But my question is always going to be, why that has to come at the expense of the other members. I mean, look at it this way... how many of Lindsey's biggest fans, will only begrudingly admit to liking one of Stevie's songs. And, only then, because of Lindsey's contribution to said song? As if Stevie had nothing to do with at all. "Lindsey made 'Gypsy' what it is." "'Dreams' would be nothing if it weren't for Lindsey." And so on and so on. And how many times have we heard that Fleetwood Mac sucked after Lindsey left (a comment that folks like myself, chiliD, and David, will argue against until we're blue in the face)... implying that the band can't possibly be any good without Lindsey there to help them. It's the same when Stevie fans make the same claim. Really, there's really nothing wrong with having your favorite member, and loving their contribution to the band or to a particular song (Stevie's harmonies on the outtake of "Oh Daddy," for example, or Lindsey's guitar on "Gypsy," etc.)... but to say that that member is 50% responsible for a song being so good, or damn-near entirely responsible for the band's success, is a bit of a stretch. Whether it's being said by Stevie fans or Lindsey fans. My opinion is this... if an artist's own fans don't feel confident enough in praising said artist's talents, without belittling the talents of someone else, then that's a pretty sad thing. But that's just my opinion.
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"Although the arrogance of fame lingers like a thick cloud around the famous, the sun always seems to shine for Stevie." -- Richard Dashut, 2014 Last edited by Johnny Stew; 04-16-2004 at 07:11 PM.. |
04-16-2004, 07:12 PM |
trackaghost |
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#84
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[QUOTE=face of glass]If he was truly interested in album sales, I think he’d try to make his music sound closer to what is the public idea of the typical FM sound. I think Stevie’s solo music fits into this category a lot better than Lindsey’s all-over-the-place diversity.
But he is just as interested in album sales because, he did not release his solo cd that he stated if only 300,000 ppl heard , he would of been happy with that. He didnot release his solo material as he intended it to be heard, he compromised and made it a fm album, . When you stated he doesnt compromise his songs to that fm sound on his solo material, WELL LINDSEY JUST RELEASE YOUR SOLO STUFF PLEASE. He hopped on the FM train, and there lies the compromise. when WB said lindsey we have an idea how to get your music out to a larger audience, make it a FM album. i had wished that he would of just released it as a solo lp, and then gone into the studio with fm later on, and start off fresh with both stevie and lindsey in the studio together. because now, the same is going to happen, stevie WILL release her solo album AND SHE WILL TOUR , but i think that for the next FM album they should wait until they all can work together on the songs. So it will be a full group collaboration. |
#85
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But with the double cd, in order to not lose money , he was stateing that they would have to tour longer etc... and he couldnt take that chance that stevie wouldnt want to do more than the 40 dates. so money matters to him, just as much , whether its sales of cds. or money from touring. its all money in his pocket one way or another. if it truly didnt matter, we would be listening to GOS, and lindsey would still be living in the same house and not rebuiling , lol. not directed at you strand. |
#86
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I dont think stevie felt they were going to sell millions, its a nice thought to think but, i think she meant that if this tour is successful ( from the doc) lets just go with the feeling and tour as long as we are having fun with it. |
#87
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Stevie never has a problem with going out on tour , she knows what its all about and has done it with every album, plus with FM. so touring for stevie is not an issue, its what she loves to do, too bad she has a bad hip, but i tip my hat to her for doing it, class act.. I dont think lindsey was being the realist, only when he realized that the double cd was gonna cost him money in the end, was he being realistic, when he realized if stevie didnt want to do more than 40 dates, and he couldnt risk it, then he was being realistic. Stevie was being concerned when she stated you all have families etc.... if this was a solo cd for lindsey i would say go for it , put your money where your mouth is and go for it. but in a group effort you have to consider whats best for everyone, not just what he wanted. personally if he had pulled some of these songs on syw and kept them for a solo, because he owned the masters, and just contributed a quarter of whats on syw, then i wished he had, because we would of got syw anyways and gos. |
#88
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The AHI is a benefit concert, she raised money for a good cause , and donated the proceeds. And i am sure that stevie does donate her own money as well as her time. as for all the other facts you so stated, i would recheck some of them, lol.. and if lindsey is so well off , as he should be, then why is or was money such an issue for him in the end,, he himself, as wealthy as he may be, stated himself, that he couldnt risk it , if stevie didnt want to tour more than 40 dates, because he has a family to raise and a house to pay for. we all know stevie, had a bad drug habit, thats not secret, we all know that Mick made Mick go bankrupt, (that wasnt steviesfault) I dont know why your making money an issue as if lindsey is richer than any of the others, if he is thats great, but stevie has also been clean since the mid 80's and she has continued to tour since and do well . If anything i think stevie is involved because she loves the idea of the mac being back together, but she also has a successful solo career all along. she truly love s to be on stage entertaining its what she loves to do. as lindsey loves the studio. |
#89
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I agree with Johnny abouot Go Your Own Way. On the studio version you can't hear her at all. Second Hand News would be a song that if someone said that was their favorite Lindsey then you'd have more of an argument of it's because of Stevie's background vocals and then still that could be untrue too.
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Never Dance with the Devil He Will Burn You Down |
#90
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[QUOTE=face of glass]And how different is that from the opinions of certain Nicksfans? Isn’t “Go Your
But for me half of the emotion on a Nickssong as done by FM often comes from Lindsey Buckingham’s guitars. It’s those that most obviously separate it from the muck that was floating around the charts at the time because the subtleties of the rhythm section can be easily ignored. wow so you must not be too much into the value of lyrics then. also, stevie doesnt claim that her solo material is to be different from FM material.. her solo career is just another avenue to get more of her songs out there. its lindsey who claims to want to be experimental and so on and good for him, now lets just hope he puts his material out. he wants a different sound so then go for it, i do find it funny that when talking about Mixing the cd, he wants something thats sounds different for syw and i think thats great, but then when you look on ootc , hmmmmm,, who did some of your mixing linds,,,, chris lord alge, (spelling?) and ootc was his best solo material, IMO |
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