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  #196  
Old 01-22-2021, 09:04 AM
jbrownsjr jbrownsjr is offline
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Originally Posted by UnwindedDreams View Post
After he was fired, she said she had a great time working with him in 2017.

What are the control issues? Are you talking about him being a musical director and a producer?
She wouldn't have enjoyed BuckVie. Lindsey and Christine vibes and having fun. Being told not to put vibrato on every damn harmony so it's consistent. Not being the boss.
She's a meglomaniac. She needs and craves attention. Especially with FM. It's ground zero for her. And the fact that they did an album and tour without her, drove her insane. It fueled the power struggle to the point of her pushing him out. He got his way without her. Album, tour and Christine. Check to the Checkmate in a cesspool of a toxic relationship that's been fake for many many years.
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  #197  
Old 01-22-2021, 11:58 AM
UnwindedDreams UnwindedDreams is offline
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Originally Posted by jbrownsjr View Post
She wouldn't have enjoyed BuckVie. Lindsey and Christine vibes and having fun. Being told not to put vibrato on every damn harmony so it's consistent. Not being the boss.
She's a meglomaniac. She needs and craves attention. Especially with FM. It's ground zero for her. And the fact that they did an album and tour without her, drove her insane. It fueled the power struggle to the point of her pushing him out. He got his way without her. Album, tour and Christine. Check to the Checkmate in a cesspool of a toxic relationship that's been fake for many many years.
It's amazing how she was inducted in the Hall of Fame of Cleveland OH I think for her solo career visuals, maybe not the music, and at the induction Lindsey was in the video montage, as well as Crying in the Night, Lindsey's guitar opening of Rhiannon. She mentioned Lindsey by name in her speech and not Waddy or FM bandmates.
Dave Grohl introduced her as Lindsey Buckingham's girl at the Sound City Player shows. I thought Lindsey was useless and she did everything with no help from him?
Why does she bring him up so much?
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  #198  
Old 01-22-2021, 11:55 PM
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except, this is completely nonsensical and unproven speculation.

no-name-recognition BuckVie or LB played and filled the Beacon. if huge FM brand played Beacon they would charge an arm and a leg.
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Originally Posted by elle View Post
yep! they would definitely play arenas. and yes maybe not 3 nights in a row in some places.

i've seen tons of social media posts from people at FM shows in 2018 who clearly had no clue who is in the band but knew they were seeing FM and knew the songs.
Itís not nonsensical and completely unproven speculation. An entity called Fleetwood Mac playing the big Fleetwood Mac hits toured in 94-95. That band only got gigs opening for CSN or package tours with REO Speedwagon and Pat Benatar. At the time, Smashing Pumpkins had an alternative hit with ďLandslide.Ē

Less than two years later, an entity called Fleetwood Mac with different people was on a massive arena tour playing the big Fleetwood Mac hits. People might not have had a clue as to who was in Fleetwood Mac, but they sure as hell knew who wasnít in it.

That said, I agree the Rumours Fleetwood Mac minus Stevie could have played the Beacon and charged ridiculous prices. My observation is that people who go to places like the Beacon have a deeper connection to the music than the arena/stadium/large amphitheater goers. But youíre off your rocker if you think Fleetwood Mac is an arena band without Stevie.

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that was behind the timing of Stevie's stunt. she was busy in 2017, yes. busy getting Mick and Azoff to side with her.
...
with Christine back, it appears Lindsey miscalculated and thought he would now have both Mick and Christine on his side.
I agree that Lindsey miscalculated, but I donít believe that his firing was premeditated, at least not before the November tour negotiations.

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big mistake, Stevie pulled big money managers!
She didnít need to pull in Azoff. Lindsey burned that bridge all on his own.
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  #199  
Old 01-23-2021, 02:21 AM
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How do you know it was 'such a good experience with BuckVie'? She might have gotten miffed by Buck's control issues and was happy to be rid of him
In a 1995 AOL chat, Christine said that Dave Mason wouldnít have been her first choice. When asked who her first choice would have been, she said Lindsey Buckingham. In 2018, it was clear that Christine didnít like what happened and still said glowing things about Lindsey (which isnít to say she didnít like Mike Campbell and Neil Finn). Christine enjoyed working with Lindsey, but Mick and John are family.
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  #200  
Old 01-23-2021, 02:38 AM
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Originally Posted by UnwindedDreams View Post
Stevie played BuckVie venues with Chris Isaak in 2007.
How is her status in 2007 relevant to her status 2017? I mean, she wasnít a rock star and international sex symbol in 1967, but the epitome of both in 1977. Things change in ten years. Stevie did a tour in 2005 and a smallish tour in 2006, so there was a saturation of solo Stevie by 2007. The 24KG was the first Stevie Nicks solo tour in six years, the first since the AHS boost in her popularity, and was on the heels of Fleetwood Macís big reunion tour with Christine McVie. Sure, the Pretenders opened, but theyíre not exactly an arena rock band.
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  #201  
Old 01-23-2021, 06:16 AM
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Originally Posted by UnwindedDreams View Post
After he was fired, she said she had a great time working with him in 2017.

What are the control issues? Are you talking about him being a musical director and a producer?
I'm talking about 'you should change your verb tense' in Thrown Down, wear a cardigan on SYW tour, don't lift your mic off the stand or you'll look like a Vegas act,,, telling John how he should play bass, choosing to bang on a kleenex box over Mick's drumming. etc etc

Last edited by johnnystorms; 01-23-2021 at 06:22 AM..
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  #202  
Old 01-23-2021, 08:27 AM
UnwindedDreams UnwindedDreams is offline
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How is her status in 2007 relevant to her status 2017? I mean, she wasnít a rock star and international sex symbol in 1967, but the epitome of both in 1977. Things change in ten years.
Are you staying Stevie was starting out her career again in 2007?
I don't understand why you mentioned 1967 to 1977. That's a red herring because it's a career beginning; Madonna wasn't a rock star and international sex symbol in 1979, but the epitome of both in 1984.

Madonna toured 2004, did live appearances in 2005, 2006, did a few live appearances in 07, had her most successful tour in 2008.

What does 1994-5 Fleetwood Mac have to do with a fantasy FM with no Stevie?
Couldn't FM no SN have AHS, Glee, and GYOW in tons of commercials taking them into Staples Center and Barclays Center? Charging $55-$150?
They could still book interviews on Ellen and Today Show. They could have TV commercials like this last go round did, playing Don't Stop, GYOW, Say You Love Me, and The Chain.

Please don't respond offensively. Thank you.
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  #203  
Old 01-23-2021, 08:31 AM
UnwindedDreams UnwindedDreams is offline
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Originally Posted by johnnystorms View Post
I'm talking about 'you should change your verb tense' in Thrown Down, wear a cardigan on SYW tour, don't lift your mic off the stand or you'll look like a Vegas act,,, telling John how he should play bass, choosing to bang on a kleenex box over Mick's drumming. etc etc
Was that really a mean offering he made? Did he tell John how to play bass or was he playing bass and John told him you don't play any bass parts...I do

These are examples from decades ago. Would you recommend reading "Gold Dust Woman" by Stephen Davis if I wanted to find examples of Lindsey's control issues? Thank you.
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  #204  
Old 01-23-2021, 04:00 PM
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the verb tense thing is total bull****. It's the kind of feedback a producer provides. It wasn't done meanly or nastily (which yes he at times had done in the past, esp. when they were breaking up and he was not happy about it, and so yes I get that might sensitize her to any feedback from him -- but then that's on her for projecting past **** onto present situations).

In the interim she had become a big solo star (though one who faded in the late 80s and the 90s and who should remember that is still possible) and that made her feel like she had the power to not have anyone around her critique her in any way. He does not buy into that mindset so much, and she hates it. (who is he to talk to me like that now that I'm a far bigger star than he is and he needs me more than I need him for my career).

From what various members and roadies, producers etc have said, Lindsey probably did overstep a bit in the beginning by telling John and Mick what and how to play to get the effect he desired on his songs, being used to being the boss in BN and not recognizing that at that point he had joined THEIR band not vice-versa. I don't think John needed bass playing lessons, and perhaps LB could have gotten the desired results better if he'd been more collaborative and less directive in his approach. John clearly let him know this. Remember, Chris has described LB in those days as moody, a bit mercurial, hard to get to know, a bit distant. Maybe a bit resentful (as he still thinks BN was on the verge of breaking thru at that point). He focused on what they gave up to doing FM and Stevie focused on what they gained. (which for her was some other people between her and LB). She's never going to interpret anything that happens between them free from their pasts. He seems more desirous of starting a new chapter.
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  #205  
Old 01-24-2021, 01:00 AM
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Originally Posted by UnwindedDreams View Post
Are you staying Stevie was starting out her career again in 2007?
No. I was pretty clearly saying that her career was in a very different place in 2017 than where it was in 2007.

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I don't understand why you mentioned 1967 to 1977. That's a red herring because it's a career beginning;
Not at all a red herring. There was a cogent, relevant point, namely that a lot can change in a career over the span of a decade. In 1967, Stevie was unknown. Ten years later, she was one of the most famous women in the world. In 2007, Stevie was touring with Chris Isaak. Ten years later, she was headlining an arena tour and Chris Isaak has fallen off the face of the Earth.

However, how Dave Grohl referred to Stevie is almost never relevant to any discussion and is the epitome of a red herring. Madonna, Cher, and Tina Turner are generally red herrings in the discussion of Fleetwood Mac. Who cares about them? They weren’t in Fleetwood Mac.

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What does 1994-5 Fleetwood Mac have to do with a fantasy FM with no Stevie?
If people don’t know who is in Fleetwood Mac, that they’re going to shows because Fleetwood Mac is a massive brand, that they’re going to hear the big hits, then why would the 94-95 band be opening act/packaged tour material but a different lineup was selling out arenas two years later? I mean, if people don’t know who’s in the band and are only going for the songs, why would it matter who was in the band? But, apparently it did.

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Please don't respond offensively. Thank you.
How you interpret the tone of my post isn’t my responsibility. There are no personal attacks in my post.
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  #206  
Old 01-24-2021, 07:09 AM
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No. I was pretty clearly saying that her career was in a very different place in 2017 than where it was in 2007.


Not at all a red herring. There was a cogent, relevant point, namely that a lot can change in a career over the span of a decade. In 1967, Stevie was unknown. Ten years later, she was one of the most famous women in the world. In 2007, Stevie was touring with Chris Isaak. Ten years later, she was headlining an arena tour and Chris Isaak has fallen off the face of the Earth.

However, how Dave Grohl referred to Stevie is almost never relevant to any discussion and is the epitome of a red herring. Madonna, Cher, and Tina Turner are generally red herrings in the discussion of Fleetwood Mac. Who cares about them? They werenít in Fleetwood Mac.


If people donít know who is in Fleetwood Mac, that theyíre going to shows because Fleetwood Mac is a massive brand, that theyíre going to hear the big hits, then why would the 94-95 band be opening act/packaged tour material but a different lineup was selling out arenas two years later? I mean, if people donít know whoís in the band and are only going for the songs, why would it matter who was in the band? But, apparently it did.


How you interpret the tone of my post isnít my responsibility. There are no personal attacks in my post.
I think you are a bit of a mischief maker, a stirrer.
And no never any personal attacks, that I can remember..

BUT, I always enjoy reading your many replies....and most of it makes a lot of sense.
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  #207  
Old 01-24-2021, 10:02 AM
UnwindedDreams UnwindedDreams is offline
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No. I was pretty clearly saying that her career was in a very different place in 2017 than where it was in 2007.
But you use the words "pretty clearly" and that was mean. There's no need to be condescending to me when all I asked for was help to understand why 2007 was different than 2017. Because to me, Stevie was a legend in 2007 and was a legend in 2017. I don't know why you feel the need to be abusive.

And I'll share with you that my view is that Stevie's hitmaking resume didn't change from 2007 to 2017. 2001 was the last time she had a record that sold really well and got a lot of play on a cable music channel, VH1.

And if we're talking about a change in venues from 2007 to 2017, the 24 Tour did have a shared billing, just like the CV Tour did.
The Pretenders got an hour or so, which is the same time Chris Isaak got. Their name was printed on the ticket. They got heavy video mention in the tour commercials. I'll bet this will be pleasing to you: Lindsey solo, Mick solo, or John solo - all individuals who released solo music - could not fill those venues - except Lindsey who did fill the Sands Event Center that Stevie played on 24 Tour.

When Stevie did a Summer/Fall run of the 24 Tour alone, she played a State Fair, 2 nights at a picnic venue in a Chicago suburb, B/C/D Market facilities in Saint Charles, MO, Green Bay, and Youngstown, OH. I think Vanessa Carlton might've been the opening act.


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Originally Posted by SteveMacD View Post
If people don’t know who is in Fleetwood Mac, that they’re going to shows because Fleetwood Mac is a massive brand, that they’re going to hear the big hits, then why would the 94-95 band be opening act/packaged tour material but a different lineup was selling out arenas two years later?
I think one answer would be promotion. Was 94/95 marketed as aggressively as the 97 tour?
But to borrow your position that Stevie's selling power changed from 2007-2017 because of AHS and whatever else you mentioned. Couldn't FM ticket sales benefit from the AHS, Glee, Guitar Hero, GYOW in commercials even without Stevie in the lineup?
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  #208  
Old 01-24-2021, 02:52 PM
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Originally Posted by UnwindedDreams View Post
o borrow your position that Stevie's selling power changed from 2007-2017 because of AHS and whatever else you mentioned. Couldn't FM ticket sales benefit from the AHS, Glee, Guitar Hero, GYOW in commercials even without Stevie in the lineup?
yes. Stevie's selling power did change in a decade, mainly because of AHS. there is always a difference from decade to decade and sometimes even from year to year.

if Lindsey released OOTC soon after he left FM and before the grunge era started, that record would have had a very different commercial path. and FM in the era of punk (Tusk time) was already an uncool establishment dinosaur and viewed differently than in the era of Rumours. years that pass and events that happen in between, some that band members have a hand in and others that are completely out of their control (punk, grunge) all influence commerciality.

i was watching a Deep Purple doc on AXS the other day, and Ritchie Blackmore was discussing a difference between popular, commercial, good musicianship, and being able to fit in the popular culture of the moment. i wish i remember how he expressed it, it was interesting.

considering the difference in just 10 years (2007-2017), just think how both SN's and Fleetwood Mac's brand has changed since 1994 - 2020, 26 years?
and imagine how it changed since their tiktok newfound fame? they all sold their publishing (Mick recording rights) for tons of money since then.
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  #209  
Old 01-24-2021, 04:47 PM
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I think you are a bit of a mischief maker, a stirrer.
And no never any personal attacks, that I can remember..

BUT, I always enjoy reading your many replies....and most of it makes a lot of sense.
Ding, Ding give the lady a prize for the correct answer.
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  #210  
Old 01-24-2021, 06:06 PM
jbrownsjr jbrownsjr is offline
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Anybody know when B/N will be released on CD?
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