Hard Advice

[tabruns]

Actually I was thinking that the "take the last line out of the chorus" remark might refer to "Starshine" and the line being "playing with fire was..."

[bombaysaffires]

Originally Posted by dontlookdown

Meh.

yep. Kooky Stevie, and not in a good way "don't buy that doll" is just…. wtf. Hilarious.

[OooMissionary]

Originally Posted by tabruns

Actually I was thinking that the "take the last line out of the chorus" remark might refer to "Starshine" and the line being "playing with fire was..."

But that is what I love about Stevie... She doesn't give a ****. Neither song should be altered in any way!

[michelej1]

So, what guy is so famous that there are life size paper dolls (or posters) of him in music stores? I can think of three.

Elvis
Michael Jackson
Justin Bieber

Which one of those three guys do you think Stevie is in love with?

Also, Tom's advice is crummy. "I can't forget my old love. I can't move on emotionally, even though I've tried. What can I do, Tom?"

"Turn off the radio and stay out of record stores."

Uh, ok.

Michele

[bombaysaffires]

Originally Posted by michelej1

So, what guy is so famous that there are life size paper dolls (or posters) of him in music stores? I can think of three.

Elvis
Michael Jackson
Justin Bieber

Which one of those three guys do you think Stevie is in love with?

Also, Tom's advice is crummy. "I can't forget my old love. I can't move on emotionally, even though I've tried. What can I do, Tom?"

"Turn off the radio and stay out of record stores."

Uh, ok.

Michele

hahahahaa that's funny!!

I was wondering too…. I thought Lindsey? Nope, don't think so at that point in time. Joe? Don't think so. Then I thought…. Tom?? And listened to it again… and wondered if it was about her being stuck on Tom still… but, wtf knows

[Jondalar]

Originally Posted by bombaysaffires

yep. Kooky Stevie, and not in a good way "don't buy that doll" is just…. wtf. Hilarious.

Is that a reference to drugs? Valley of the Dolls was about pill popping hoes. Dolls in that movie were pills.

[michelej1]

Originally Posted by bombaysaffires

hahahahaa that's funny!!

I was wondering too…. I thought Lindsey? Nope, don't think so at that point in time. Joe? Don't think so. Then I thought…. Tom?? And listened to it again… and wondered if it was about her being stuck on Tom still… but, wtf knows

Right, the contenders are Joe and Tom and I think it is Tom. Tom is the friend giving hard advice, but it may have been about her feelings for him.

Regarding Joe, I shouldn't take the song so literally, not every word has to be based on real life, but she says neither she nor her girlfriends can give the guy up. So, I'm thinking it would be someone that not only has a certain level of fame, but is also widely thought of as being attractive.

Michele

[bombaysaffires]

Originally Posted by michelej1

Right, the contenders are Joe and Tom and I think it is Tom. Tom is the friend giving hard advice, but it may have been about her feelings for him.

Michele

great minds think alike

[nicole21290]

Originally Posted by michelej1

Right, the contenders are Joe and Tom and I think it is Tom. Tom is the friend giving hard advice, but it may have been about her feelings for him.

Michele

Interestingly, she’s only talked about this song regarding WHO gave her hard advice (Tom Petty) not what the hard advice was about. Or rather, WHO the hard advice was about.

"Your music fills the room
I just can’t seem to get away from you”

So, the person she can’t get away from is a musician. The next stanza tells us there’s a cut-out of him in a record store, and that her friends can’t let him go either, even thought ‘it’ was over ages ago. I don’t exactly think this musician is going to be someone like Joe; I really can’t imagine her friends in 1995 or so still having any emotional investment in that and him, lol. The next stanza is crucial because in her commentary she claims this is about Tom…

"Sometimes he’s my best friend
Even when he’s not around
But the sound of his voice
Follows me down
And reminds me”

Okay, I can see how this can be interpreted as being as Tom. After all, she’s swapped from ‘you’ to ‘him. HOWEVER, the sound of his voice follows her down!? I’m sorry but that’s a blatant callback to Silver Springs and there’s no chance it isn’t deliberate. I seriously doubt she’s talking about Tom here. Especially as the very next stanza, discussing the man who is GIVING the advice, begins “ANOTHER FAMOUS FRIEND TOLD ME”. Unless my grasp of basic comprehension is completely gone or Stevie’s REALLY thrown out the logical narrative structure, that would suggest she’s talking about two different famous friends in those two stanzas. For those people who use Stevie’s oft-used ‘Lindsey’s not my friend!’ as a reason for the above stanza not being about him, that’s rubbish. In 2011 she thanked him for his years of friendship and in 2011 she even called him her ‘oldest, dearest friend’.

Anyway, Tom is telling her to let ‘him’ go. I really do think there’s no one else this ‘him’ could be bar Lindsey, tbh. “The pain’s gone on too long”?! No kidding…

I find the NEW lyrics to I Don't Care even more interesting, to be fair. There's lyrical repetition from Sara AND Without You in that one...

[bombaysaffires]

Originally Posted by nicole21290

Interestingly, she’s only talked about this song regarding WHO gave her hard advice (Tom Petty) not what the hard advice was about. Or rather, WHO the hard advice was about.

"Your music fills the room
I just can’t seem to get away from you”

So, the person she can’t get away from is a musician. The next stanza tells us there’s a cut-out of him in a record store, and that her friends can’t let him go either, even thought ‘it’ was over ages ago. I don’t exactly think this musician is going to be someone like Joe; I really can’t imagine her friends in 1995 or so still having any emotional investment in that and him, lol. The next stanza is crucial because in her commentary she claims this is about Tom…

"Sometimes he’s my best friend
Even when he’s not around
But the sound of his voice
Follows me down
And reminds me”

Okay, I can see how this can be interpreted as being as Tom. After all, she’s swapped from ‘you’ to ‘him. HOWEVER, the sound of his voice follows her down!? I’m sorry but that’s a blatant callback to Silver Springs and there’s no chance it isn’t deliberate. I seriously doubt she’s talking about Tom here. Especially as the very next stanza, discussing the man who is GIVING the advice, begins “ANOTHER FAMOUS FRIEND TOLD ME”. Unless my grasp of basic comprehension is completely gone or Stevie’s REALLY thrown out the logical narrative structure, that would suggest she’s talking about two different famous friends in those two stanzas. For those people who use Stevie’s oft-used ‘Lindsey’s not my friend!’ as a reason for the above stanza not being about him, that’s rubbish. In 2011 she thanked him for his years of friendship and in 2011 she even called him her ‘oldest, dearest friend’.

Anyway, Tom is telling her to let ‘him’ go. I really do think there’s no one else this ‘him’ could be bar Lindsey, tbh. “The pain’s gone on too long”?! No kidding…

I find the NEW lyrics to I Don't Care even more interesting, to be fair. There's lyrical repetition from Sara AND Without You in that one...

I don't see any cardboard cutouts of Lindsey being in stores in 1995.

so you think the second 'famous friend' is….who exactly? I got lost there.

[michelej1]

Originally Posted by bombaysaffires

I don't see any cardboard cutouts of Lindsey being in stores in 1995.

Yeah, I don't see there being any card out cutouts of Lindsey being in stores EVER.

But that's okay, Linds, because there are a thousand paper dolls of you in my heart.

I definitely do not think the "follow you down" is related to Silver Springs. I think she's just re-using words, especially since the twist is her words were going to follow Lindsey down in SS. In Hard Advice, the singer's words are following HER down. I know Lindsey's songs are played on the radio (as he says in the beautiful Gone Too Far), but I don't think his songs haunt Stevie the way the man in Hard Advice's do.

However, in Starshine, I do think the price they have to pay is the same price they are paying in Secret Love, I do find that re-use of lyrics to be about the same relationship.

Michele

[bombaysaffires]

Originally Posted by michelej1

Yeah, I don't see there being any card out cutouts of Lindsey being in stores EVER.

But that's okay, Linds, because there are a thousand paper dolls of you in my heart.

I definitely do not think the "follow you down" is related to Silver Springs. I think she's just re-using words, especially since the twist is her words were going to follow Lindsey down in SS. In Hard Advice, the singer's words are following HER down. I know Lindsey's songs are played on the radio (as he says in the beautiful Gone Too Far), but I don't think his songs haunt Stevie the way the man in Hard Advice's do.

However, in Starshine, I do think the price they have to pay is the same price they are paying in Secret Love, I do find that re-use of lyrics to be about the same relationship.

Michele

My initial reaction to the song was that is was about Joe… about Tom telling her look, it was over long ago and you need to let him go, this has dragged on too long. But the cardboard cutout thing, the songs always on the radio, the "Sometime's Tom's my best friend/even when he's not around" which is according her video what her lyrics originally were followed immediately by "the sound of his voice follows me down and reminds me". The line aobut him telling her "this is wrong"… I dunno. It just all starts sounding to me like she was still hung up on Tom.

[michelej1]

Originally Posted by bombaysaffires

My initial reaction to the song was that is was about Joe… about Tom telling her look, it was over long ago and you need to let him go, this has dragged on too long. But the cardboard cutout thing, the songs always on the radio, the "Sometime's Tom's my best friend/even when he's not around" which is according her video what her lyrics originally were followed immediately by "the sound of his voice follows me down and reminds me". The line aobut him telling her "this is wrong"… I dunno. It just all starts sounding to me like she was still hung up on Tom.

Yes. I think so. I mean, she's never acknowledged a romantic relationship with Tom, but I think there was one, more serious on her part than on his, of course.

The main clue about the guy in this song is that he is famous. He's an icon. He's someone that females swoon over. That's one thing that makes it harder for Stevie to get over him, because she sees him everywhere. It's someone with a Bruce Springsteen status and Tom has had that at a point in his career.

Michele

[Jondalar]

Originally Posted by michelej1

Yes. I think so. I mean, she's never acknowledged a romantic relationship with Tom, but I think there was one, more serious on her part than on his, of course.

The main clue about the guy in this song is that he is famous. He's an icon. He's someone that females swoon over. That's one thing that makes it harder for Stevie to get over him, because she sees him everywhere. It's someone with a Bruce Springsteen status and Tom has had that at a point in his career.

Michele

I don't think Tom had an affair with Stevie . I think he loves his wife and has high morals. I think she is like a sister to him. They are a little alike -- they fight hard for themselves. I don't think he probably met a woman quite like her. He said she is the only person who ever fought her way into his life.

[nicole21290]

Originally Posted by michelej1

Yeah, I don't see there being any card out cutouts of Lindsey being in stores EVER.

But that's okay, Linds, because there are a thousand paper dolls of you in my heart.

I definitely do not think the "follow you down" is related to Silver Springs. I think she's just re-using words, especially since the twist is her words were going to follow Lindsey down in SS. In Hard Advice, the singer's words are following HER down. I know Lindsey's songs are played on the radio (as he says in the beautiful Gone Too Far), but I don't think his songs haunt Stevie the way the man in Hard Advice's do.

However, in Starshine, I do think the price they have to pay is the same price they are paying in Secret Love, I do find that re-use of lyrics to be about the same relationship.

Michele

"She does still hear him
All night long
The same song over and over
It heals her heart
No voice of a stranger
Could play that part
It broke her heart"

Oh, they both talk about a price on a quite regular basis, really. And obviously, saving, which is also in Starshine.

And the price that we paid for a love we couldn’t hold (Say Goodbye)

Everyone pays a price for these dreams (Say We’ll Meet Again)

And every life has its price (Shut Us Down)

Sometimes the price is a little too much (Down On Rodeo)

Someone’s going to have to pay the price (Wait For You)

What price glory (How Still My Love)

But I paid a price for it… (Doing The Best I Can)

We’re already paying the price (Secret Love)

No matter what the price, I knew I’d found the prize (Impossible Task)

If it is ALL about Tom, if he is giving her advice about giving him (Tom) up? Yeah, it doesn't quite work for me. And if it's the case, her narrative structure seriously is WAY worse than I thought it was. One verse she's talking about a man's voice following her down and the very next verse is about 'another famous friend' giving her advice about having to give someone up who she's hearing on the radio, etc. The 'another' would strongly suggest the person giving advice and the person about whom the advice is about are different. *shrugs*