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  #16  
Old 01-13-2009, 06:59 AM
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doodyhead doodyhead is offline
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Default I'm just glad he is still playing.

Due to the experiences of my youth, I have known several people who never made it back from recreational drugs. A few led to suicide, a few to totally wacked out individuals. Peter survived non prescription drugs, a few stays in the asylum, electroshock therapy. potential bi polar disorder. He is probably still on some kind of medication. I have heard that the stuff they treat you with might leave you with liver damage, diabetes and several other health problems he did not have before.

The incredible thing is he is still interested in making music, and even more, is interested in entertaining others. It's like seeing your favorite athlete coming back from a would be career ending injury.

This is a GIFT


I just hope somebody records it

doodyhead, melandvinnie

Last edited by doodyhead; 01-13-2009 at 07:02 AM.. Reason: spelling
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  #17  
Old 01-13-2009, 11:57 AM
JonsonP JonsonP is offline
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Without wishing to receive a telling off like poor Snoot, dare I question whether PG is really that interested in ‘professionally’ entertaining others?

Sure he can’t seem to help being interested in making music (which is amazing considering!), but from most of his interviews he often wonders why anyone would even bother to come and see him play.
So with that in mind why would he want to entertain???

I suppose this is just part of the self-deprecation confusing aspect of PG – how can someone so greatly talented and admired not fully recognise it?!

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  #18  
Old 01-13-2009, 01:32 PM
dino dino is offline
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That's very true, doodyhead. Your comments always make a lot of sense.

Last edited by dino; 01-13-2009 at 01:40 PM..
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  #19  
Old 01-13-2009, 04:34 PM
snoot snoot is offline
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Well guys let's just keep in mind I've seen Peter Green perform live and at his peak with PGFM, on a number of occasions. Not all that many here can say that. I have also seen Jeremy and Danny likewise in their heyday, again on a good number of occasions. The last time I saw Pete perform live, many years after leaving FM, he stood on the stage in a whirlwind of confusion, barely finding a few notes to get out. About halfway through the set, he wandered off and exited the stage never to return, while his band finished the set. Though he has had moments during his recovery years where flashes of the old PG rise to the surface, for the most part they're few and far between. I think this is part of Green's own ambivalence about being up on stage at this point, beyond his self-deprecating demeanor. Revisit my earlier comments and see why they stand.

No offense was aimed at Peter in what I wrote. He's the man behind the Mac, and I have always felt no one feels worse about what became of Danny Kirwan than him, which is but more points to his credit. Passion aside, Dansven needs to recognize that while we may all be hip to Green's longstanding condition, others visiting the Ledge and reading our comments may not be. The guest percentages versus members at any given time often hovers around 4 to 1 (and sometimes greater), so most comments here reach a larger audience than just those who make up the membership cadre.

As I see it, if peeps are forking over good money for concert performances (keeping in mind it's a far cry from the $3.00-5.00 as it was in the PGFM days of yesteryear), best they have some idea what they're getting into. Also a cursory look at my previous posts would show I am anything but a troll, and probably deserve more consideration than a reactionary tongue-lashing that includes an "evil" descriptor. If you had simply PMed me your feelings or relayed what you feel was inappropriate in what I posted, I might have gone back and edited - or even deleted - my post. I enjoy good discussion and lively debate, but I don't come here to crush people's feelings on a whim. If I am sometimes blunt in what I write, it's just that there is often no better way to state certain things.

I appreciate Vinnie's comments, but unfortunately there is a little more to the picture than that alone in PG's regard. However in the spirit of optimism and renewal, a GIFT it surely is considering hope springs eternal.
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  #20  
Old 01-13-2009, 04:42 PM
snoot snoot is offline
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JonsonP you appear to be something of a born diplomat, like our friend the vinniemeister. Since you're just aboard, you might want to visit the early Mac section here, if you are into the early and mid era history of the band. I realize some Greenies are not, being blues purists to the bone, but there's a lot of informative reading to be had there by those who know the Mac is far more than the pop machine it eventually became.
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  #21  
Old 01-13-2009, 05:36 PM
dansven dansven is offline
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Hi Snoot!
Quote:
Originally Posted by snoot View Post
Well guys let's just keep in mind I've seen Peter Green perform live and at his peak with PGFM, on a number of occasions. Not all that many here can say that.
Yeah, few people here saw Peter with FMac. Still, most of us got to "know" him from that era ... that's how we discovered Peter first: Black Magic Woman, Albatross, Oh Well...

The "Peter Green" we first knew was the young guitar hero. But as mentioned by others here, we know that he is not that kind of player today. He has developed an entirely new approach to playing .. a new style of lead guitar. And people here appreachiate what he's doing now. He has no interest in being a guitar hero ... there is no "task" to be up to if you realise that. In spite of (or because of) his illness, he has developed. (while other "guitar heroes" sound like lame copies of themselves from the 60s ... but let's not get into that one again..)

Quote:
Originally Posted by snoot View Post
Passion aside, Dansven needs to recognize that while we may all be hip to Green's longstanding condition, others visiting the Ledge and reading our comments may not be. The guest percentages versus members at any given time often hovers around 4 to 1 (and sometimes greater), so most comments here reach a larger audience than just those who make up the membership cadre.
Why write such a post just because some "bad showbiz dudes" check the Ledge now and then...
Btw, Peter lives in 2009 like the rest of us .. and he probably got his own laptop too! His family and relatives are visiting the Ledge.

Quote:
Originally Posted by snoot View Post
No offense was aimed at Peter in what I wrote.
Quote:
Originally Posted by snoot View Post
Also a cursory look at my previous posts would show I am anything but a troll, and probably deserve more consideration than a reactionary tongue-lashing that includes an "evil" descriptor.
Ok, I'm sure you're no troll. But really, what did you expect?? Can't you see that calling Peter Green "flotsam" would cause reactions??? Calling anybody "flotsam"?? This is after all a "Peter Green Forum"?!?! He wasn't "taking up space on stage" with the Splinter Group at all.

Last edited by dansven; 01-13-2009 at 05:40 PM..
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  #22  
Old 01-13-2009, 06:54 PM
snoot snoot is offline
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Hey Daniel

Well my choice of words simply reflect what I have witnessed on stage, and how I've felt (and still feel) about it. Perhaps I should have used another word instead of flotsam (fair enough), but I don't know if there really is a more accurate one. Do keep in mind I also stated, as JonsonP picked up on, that the larger problem remains
=> that you never know just what you're going to get with PG at any given time. There is a +/- at work here all at once.

"As long as he enjoys playing, then that should be enough" is a sensible sentiment, but 1) from what I've witnessed, I'm not always sure that is the case - and 2) there is nothing wrong with publicizing the fact that "what you see is what you get" with PG these days. And that varies widely, lest there be any unsuspecting surprises on the part of would-be concert-goers. Even in the studio, it's difficult to tell where Snowy or Nigel or brother Mick (et al) end, and Pete begins. You know the bit.

Why write such a post just because some "bad showbiz dudes" check the Ledge now and then...

No that's not what I meant. I was simply referring to anyone who might be lurking or visiting the Ledge as a (non-signed-in) "guest." No "good guy" or "bad guy" connotations are implied at all. Keep in mind our posts are spidered and indexed into various search engines, including the mother of them all Google. Lots of folks end up reading these comments without ever having set foot directly at the forum.

As for "taking up space on stage," there has been just this at times during his comeback career. I can't speak for how often, but when it occurs, it's almost painful to witness. Again, this is what I meant when I stated that "what you see is what you get with PG these days" = YMMV. But one thing I think we all can agree on, if Peter really has his heart and mind into this concert or any touring that may follow, I will be the first one to say POWER TO HIM and HALLELUIAH! It's just that even in this realm, I'm not quite sure. There's a lot of diverse forces at play here, and there not all Peter's exclusively.

Now if you want a little more fun and angst, try visit this thread. Not sure if you happened upon it yet, but we had a great time mashing on that one, even if it went well beyond a discussion of PG's blues.

Interesting Read
http://ledge.fleetwoodmac.net/showthread.php?t=38213

Jb

Last edited by snoot; 01-13-2009 at 07:52 PM..
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  #23  
Old 01-13-2009, 09:47 PM
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slipkid slipkid is offline
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Default Peter Green could be much, much worse.

I just saw that documentary on Roky Erickson "You're Gonna Miss Me" last week.
For those that don't know who I'm talking about, Roky was a member of the psychedelic band the 13th Floor Elevators from Austin TX. They migrated to the San Francisco scene in the mid 60's and became one of the favorite underground bands. Roky is credited to have coined the term "Psychedelic Rock", as well as having a distinct singing voice.

Apparently Roky liked LSD very much. He claims to have taken the drug 300 times before he was arrested by Austin's finest for the possession of one marijuana joint. That put him in the Texas mental institution for the criminally insane for three years. According to doctors, much like Peter Green, Erickson was diagnosed with schizophrenia. After his stint in the institution he made a comeback in the '70s with his alien music before finally retiring in 1987. It's ironic that Daniel Johnston was at his peak in the Austin music scene around that time. (he's another
musician with mental issues) According to Wikipedia, Erickson has made a comeback too. hmm


I think the footage of Roky today would now be ten years old, but it's very disturbing to watch. All he wanted to do was turn on devices that made constant noise while watching the cartoon network. Not to mention his mother wasn't helping his cause by keeping him off medication. I also noticed his mother wanted to exploit the documentary for her own personal gain as a so-called singer/dancer.


Anyway, my long winded point is that from what I've seen in the recent Green documentary Man of the World, Green appears coherent and articulate. He can also still play the guitar. The fact that he's playing in public again no matter what the circumstances should be seen a blessing, and should be appreciated.
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  #24  
Old 01-13-2009, 10:58 PM
snoot snoot is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by slipkid View Post
Roky is credited to have coined the term "Psychedelic Rock", as well as having a distinct singing voice.
If this is indeed true, I never heard it before. Interesting.

Apparently Roky liked LSD very much. He claims to have taken the drug 300 times ...

According to doctors, much like Peter Green, Erickson was diagnosed with schizophrenia.

Well the sad part is one will never really know if these conditions were 1) dormant all along, or 2) brought to the surface directly by drug (particularly hallucinogenic) abuse, or 3) were created by it. Those that know of Peter's remarkable drive, confidence and ambition early on would find it difficult to believe that schizophrenia was riding shotgun all along, and may be more inclined to believe that repeated LSD use (a la "one toke over the line") was more likely the cause. Unfortunately all it takes with acid is one bad dose, even if this is sometimes used as a convenient "out" to mask a larger appetite for extended indulgence (and/or self destruction).

But dice it any way you like, sustained drug abuse almost always leads to mental deterioration, often permanent. It's a high price to pay for the ghost of creativity, or for those whose more innocent experiments run out of control. And like everything else in this often random world (and as Vinnie noted earlier), some are lucky to pull through when the day is done, while others don't. Some only make it halfway, caught in a confusing, murky fog or perennial in-and-out condition. Psychedelia refers to more than just spacey, progressive music; it also includes hallucinations, changes of perception, and altered states of mind, which was all the rage during that wild era.

Anyway, my long winded point is that from what I've seen in the recent Green documentary Man of the World, Green appears coherent and articulate. He can also still play the guitar. The fact that he's playing in public again no matter what the circumstances should be seen a blessing, and should be appreciated.

Not long winded at all. Green can be coherent and articulate, other times it's not so evident. This has been the cross he bears ever since those heady years with the Mac -- in Peter's case, the ultimate price for fame, doubt, drugs and burnout. Reminiscent of what Danny Kirwan relayed in a rare interview years ago, wondering if perhaps the blues weren’t too powerful for a person such as he. The flame burned too bright, and needed extinguishing, as has been stated.

Listen to Bad Company's Shooting Star and tell me it isn't apropos, for many of our musical heroes -- and the era at large.

Edit: Paul Rodgers wrote that song as a pointed warning to people in the music industry, after witnessing what became of folks like Brian Jones, Jimi Hendrix, Janis Joplin, Jim Morrison and Alan “Blind Owl” Wilson - all dead within approximately a year of the time Peter went south, and all victims of drug addictions and/or overdoses.

Last edited by snoot; 01-14-2009 at 12:20 AM..
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  #25  
Old 01-14-2009, 01:52 AM
dino dino is offline
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Snoot, when did this occur:?
" The last time I saw Pete perform live, many years after leaving FM, he stood on the stage in a whirlwind of confusion, barely finding a few notes to get out. About halfway through the set, he wandered off and exited the stage never to return, while his band finished the set. "

It must have been during the Kolors era, early-mid 80's, right? Peter was very ill then. I'm just curious.

I think we all have to agree to disagree about this stuff. I can see Snoot's point too. Still, if there are old 60's fans who haven't picked up on what Peter's been through since 1970 they deserve a rough deal/defied expectations/new music. Did they go into a coma and wake up 40 years later?

Last edited by dino; 01-14-2009 at 01:54 AM..
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  #26  
Old 01-14-2009, 05:43 AM
JonsonP JonsonP is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by snoot View Post
Though he has had moments during his recovery years where flashes of the old PG rise to the surface.
Although there are many moments where PG has flashes of just simply playing very well, with plenty of hints of both the old FM days and PVK era days.
And this is certainly true -
Quote:
Originally Posted by dansven View Post
He has no interest in being a guitar hero ... there is no "task" to be up to if you realise that.


With PG more than most, the frame of mind he’s in, the songs, venue, atmosphere, musicians he’s with, instruments he plays etc all tend to play a huge role in determining what your likely to get.

But I’d guess that for many of us PG enjoying himself and playing in ‘any’ style is more than enough!
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  #27  
Old 01-14-2009, 09:54 AM
absinthe_boy absinthe_boy is offline
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I think the person who asked Snoot when he last saw PG perform has asked a vital question.

OK I admit outside of videos and audio recordings I have not "seen" PG perform...I was supposed to see a concert in the late days of the Spliter Group but my mate forgot to buy tickets...

Anyway...from what I can ascertain, Peter certainly did appear lost on stage in the 1980's, towards the end of his "first comeback". There's little doubt that often he didn't really want to be there. There are plenty of accounts and a few tapes of him that lend credence to the idea that he was 'wheeled on stage' because of his name.

However I have never seen any footage or heard any recordings from the Spliter Group days when he seems that bad. Even from the earliest days circa 1995, Spliter Group was a professional band and sounded professional. Peter doesn't always come to the fore but he's there, and even when he is just noodling, I'd rather hear Peter's inventive noodling than some "guitar hero" playing 100 notes when 5 will do.

How many of you have watched the "Hard Road" BBC documentary which follows the run up to the first couple of Splinter Group concerts? He's in good form in the interviews, but is quiet on stage...but still playing cleanly. ??

As for his attitude, he seems to be a very humble man who finds it hard to believe that many people really think he's a great musician. That's why he isn't confident on stage, he's really not sure there is anything concrete to live up to. Don't we all, from time to time, worry that we are frauds? Most artistic people seem to anyway, musicians, writers, designers...all worry that their work which is hailed as great will one day be cut down as mediocre by critics. Peter probably doesn't feel his playing or writing were/are truly great because it came/comes naturally to him. Its a gift, he didn't sweat tears to write Albatross or BMW...or to play the solos on Oh Well...so he wonders if it really is great after all?

Every interview I have seen with PG from 1996 onwards shows him coherant...not like that early 90's Mojo interview where he talked about zombying around all day because his medication left him too tired even to set up a record player. Sure, on the Spliter Group DVD he seems less than enthusiastic...but he's coherant, he makes sense...he's clearly with it. He'd just probably rather be watching TV or practicing some noodling on one of his 96 guitars.

Anyway thos are my thoughts.
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  #28  
Old 01-14-2009, 10:43 AM
JonsonP JonsonP is offline
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Well said & I agree with all this, especially this part -
Quote:
Originally Posted by absinthe_boy View Post
I'd rather hear Peter's inventive noodling than some "guitar hero" playing 100 notes when 5 will do.
Like drowning out PG's more subtle moments with a blaze of mediocre harsh playing... - Often thought I'd ideally like to remix some of those SG recordings!
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  #29  
Old 01-14-2009, 10:58 AM
mzero mzero is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by absinthe_boy View Post
I think the person who asked Snoot when he last saw PG perform has asked a vital question.

OK I admit outside of videos and audio recordings I have not "seen" PG perform...I was supposed to see a concert in the late days of the Spliter Group but my mate forgot to buy tickets...

Anyway...from what I can ascertain, Peter certainly did appear lost on stage in the 1980's, towards the end of his "first comeback". There's little doubt that often he didn't really want to be there. There are plenty of accounts and a few tapes of him that lend credence to the idea that he was 'wheeled on stage' because of his name.

However I have never seen any footage or heard any recordings from the Spliter Group days when he seems that bad. Even from the earliest days circa 1995, Spliter Group was a professional band and sounded professional. Peter doesn't always come to the fore but he's there, and even when he is just noodling, I'd rather hear Peter's inventive noodling than some "guitar hero" playing 100 notes when 5 will do.

How many of you have watched the "Hard Road" BBC documentary which follows the run up to the first couple of Splinter Group concerts? He's in good form in the interviews, but is quiet on stage...but still playing cleanly. ??

As for his attitude, he seems to be a very humble man who finds it hard to believe that many people really think he's a great musician. That's why he isn't confident on stage, he's really not sure there is anything concrete to live up to. Don't we all, from time to time, worry that we are frauds? Most artistic people seem to anyway, musicians, writers, designers...all worry that their work which is hailed as great will one day be cut down as mediocre by critics. Peter probably doesn't feel his playing or writing were/are truly great because it came/comes naturally to him. Its a gift, he didn't sweat tears to write Albatross or BMW...or to play the solos on Oh Well...so he wonders if it really is great after all?

Every interview I have seen with PG from 1996 onwards shows him coherant...not like that early 90's Mojo interview where he talked about zombying around all day because his medication left him too tired even to set up a record player. Sure, on the Spliter Group DVD he seems less than enthusiastic...but he's coherant, he makes sense...he's clearly with it. He'd just probably rather be watching TV or practicing some noodling on one of his 96 guitars.

Anyway thos are my thoughts.
ab! welcome to the ledge (same to jonsonp). i couldn't have said it better and i come down on your and vinnie's side on this.

the splinter group was a gift as is peter's upcoming performance. i believe that pete knows well where his talent stands relative to other players, both 'in his prime' and now. he's got a lot of pride and high standards. he doesn't rate himself as highly as we do and he doesn't play as well as he'd like always. given his health its a damn miracle he's playing at all.

but his health aside, i saw the splinter group twice in the us. pete was very good both times. played the supernatural better than the record. same for the stumble. the fleetwood mac stuff he was much less interested in recreating. i have no doubt that he could recreate it if he so desired - he'd regained the technical ability in the sg days- but lacks desire and inspiration to do it.

i know i'm alone in this but in the splinter group days and now, i'd much rather hear pete play new material and covers rather than the hits. its what he'd rather do, all his interesting new solos and fills come in that context anyway. zero
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  #30  
Old 01-14-2009, 02:40 PM
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Popmuseum Popmuseum is offline
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Smile Greenie & Band live in Amsterdam and Tilburg too

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ms Moose View Post
Anyway - it is great news that he will appear in public again, but anxiously I can't help wondering: who else with be there with him?
Here's the band Greenie plays with:

Peter Green & Band:
Peter Green - lead guitar / vocals
Mike Dodd - rhythm guitar / vocals
Geraint Watkins - piano/organ/ vocals
Matt Radford - double bass
Andrew Flude - drums / backing vocals

Quote:
Originally Posted by dansven View Post
Geraint Watkins:
Played with Macca, Knopfler, Nick Lowe, Rory Gallagher, Dr. Feelgood, The Fabulous Thunderbirds, Carl Perkins, Van Morrison, Bill Wyman, Dave Edmunds and Shakin Stevens.
Last solo studio album: In A Bad Mood (2008).
http://www.myspace.com/geraintwatkins

Matt Radford:
Played with Nick Lowe together with Geraint Watkins.

I guess these will do more than backing vocals .. probably sing a few of their own songs.
Peter Green & Band are going to play at the Paradiso (Amsterdam) on 21. February 2009 (Saturday) too.
Info: http://www.lastfm.de/event/889189

Peter Green naar Nederland : 21 feb. 2009 Amsterdam + 22 feb. 2009 Tilburg
http://www.bluesmagazine.nl/peter-gr...am-013-tilburg

Last edited by Popmuseum; 01-14-2009 at 03:07 PM..
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