Unbelievable

[strandinthewind]

Originally posted by gldstwmn
It's one of my favorite memories of this year. I'm sure Ella will remember it on her birthday for many years to come.

(the best blushing emoticon I could find). That night was for me as well just great and will ive in my head for a long long time. I am so glad we/I "carried on" the night before the show and "behaved" the day of the show so we could be up for platters of fried food and conversation afterward.

[Rob67]

Came across this article and remembered it was brought up here. Makes sense.

Rob


"The Conservative Cookie Rebellion"
By Wendy McElroy
Tuesday, December 16, 2003

Want to buy a cookie? If you are a white male, that'll be $1; for white females, 75 cents; blacks, 25 cents. The price structure is the message.

Through Affirmative Action Bake Sales, conservative groups on campuses across America are satirically and peacefully spotlighting the injustice of AA programs that penalize or benefit students based solely on gender and race. The cookie rebels are being slammed by such a backlash that the Foundation for Individual Rights in Education (FIRE) -- dreaded by many university administrators -- just shot "an opening salvo" in the rebels' defense.

Thor Halvorssen, CEO of FIRE, declared in a press release last Friday: "Parody and political satire are not illegal in this country. College administrators appear to be under the mistaken impression that protesting affirmative action is not covered by the First Amendment to the U.S. Constitution. Freedom of speech is a right enjoyed equally and fully by both supporters and opponents of affirmative action."

What are the AA bake sales, and why do they engender such furor?

The sales are intended to spark discussion, not profits. They are in the same genre as guerrilla theater -- an effective counterculture tactic usually associated with the Left -- through which societal assumptions are challenged by acting out scenarios. To the amazed query, "Are you allowed to do this?" one cookie rebel responded, "Admissions officers do it every day." By shifting the context from university policy to baked goods, the assumptions of affirmative action policies are not only challenged as sexist and racist but also revealed as nonsense.

The cookie rebels are doing the one thing political correctness cannot bear: revealing its absurdity and laughing in its face. They are not merely speaking truth to power; they are chuckling at it.

To regain the moral indignation they prize so highly, the politically correct must demonize the sale of baked goods. Thus, at Indiana University one student filed an official complaint, saying that the cookie sale would "create a climate of hostility against students of color and women and can easily turn violent." (The fact that those students were the ones given a price break didn't seem to occur to the irony-starved critic who equated a buyer's discount with a threat of violence.)

To its credit, Indiana University chose to protect the freedom of speech for both sides of the affirmative action issue; it allowed the bake sale to proceed. Other universities have made the opposite choice.

The College Republicans at the University of Washington sponsored an affirmative action bake sale on Oct. 7. CR President Jason Chambers reported, "Approximately 150 students were gathered around our booth discussing the issue [AA] by about 12:30 when our booth was attacked by leftist students who disagreed with our stance on affirmative action." The Leftists threw cookies to the ground, tore down the display and physically attacked one vendor.

When the leftists began making threats, one of the cookie rebels had called the police because he feared the discussion -- hitherto civil -- might turn violent. Chambers explained, "Unfortunately, rather than step in and arrest our attackers, the police stood by while the University said we, the peaceful ones, had to shut down because WE were creating an unsafe environment. ... Our protests that the CRs were peacefully demonstrating while the leftists got violent fell upon deaf ears."

[Johnny Stew]

I wholeheartedly agree that things often get taken too far when "protecting" a minority group from discrimination, but, folks should try putting themselves in the shoes of said minority group.

I mean, seriously, how bad do white male Republicans really have it, for example? Are they denied housing? Do people shun them when they move into the neighborhood? Are their kids harrassed at school for "being different"? Are they turned down for employment because of negative stereotypes about the work ethic of their "people"?

To me, the complaints come off like a spoiled child who's always had his way, and now realizes that he's no longer ruling the roost.
And I am a white male (though, being that I'm gay, I'm also a "minority").

Personally though, I don't think anyone should be treated any better than anyone else... we should ALL have the exact same rights and benefits.
Unfortunately, some people have been treated as second-class citizens (or worse) for so long, that overcompensation often exists as organizations search for a way to "make it all better."

Frankly, I dream of a world where we no longer have to have these types of discussions... because everyone is treated EQUALLY.

[sodascouts]

Originally posted by dissention
http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmp..._controversy_2

Now THAT was in bad taste and vulgar.

When I looked at the subject title of this thread and then read dissention's description of the link, I was expecting to find some wretched and horrifying incident - instead I found a harmless protest. I must say I'm surprised by the violence of the reactions against something so minor. I guess that shows the protests' effectiveness in getting the word out about the issue, though.

They certainly made their point. Affirmative action is unfair and racist. Hmm, maybe that's why people are getting so angry.

[strandinthewind]

Originally posted by sodascouts
When I looked at the subject title of this thread and then read dissention's description of the link, I was expecting to find some wretched and horrifying incident - instead I found a harmless protest. I must say I'm surprised by the violence of the reactions against something so minor. I guess that shows the protests' effectiveness in getting the word out about the issue, though.

They certainly made their point. Affirmative action is unfair and racist. Hmm, maybe that's why people are getting so angry.

Affirmative Action is such a dividing issue. Many, many people, myself included, feel it is unfair. Here is why I do. How would you like it if you as a caucasian applied to school and/or for a scholarship with stellar grades and your application was denied solely because a person with with far worse grades got accepted in your place solely because he had 1/4 or so American Indian blood. A friend of mine got into school with a scholarship this way and his family is/was loaded with $$$$. He did NOTHING to deserve this and did not even know or acknowledge his heritage until it became lucrative to do so. I submit anyone would be pissed if they were the poorer white guy "left pissin in the wind." I sure would be.

On the other hand, I am sure or at least hope that this example is rare and clearly Affirmative Action has helped many, many people overcome the horrors of racism that occurred far more strongly and in some cases with the govt.'s consent 40 or so years ago. In fact, that is the legal basis behind it - to cure the racial wrongs and inequity of the past. I think although there is much left to do, things clearly are better now than in the 1960's - no one is being sent to the back of the bus, no separate water fountains exist, different races are allowed to marry, etc. Personally, I think it is time to get away from judging solely on race because it is becoming a crutch. I think instead poverty should be the deciding factor. I mean isn't the whole idea to help all of the disadvantaged, not just the minorities who happen to be disadvantaged?

But, that will never, ever sell politically because the minute someone questions the relevance of Affirmative Action, they are branded a racist and all logical arguments fall to the wayside because that word is so devisive even if untrue and falsely asserted.

[strandinthewind]

Originally posted by Johnny Stew
I mean, seriously, how bad do white male Republicans really have it, for example? Are they denied housing? Do people shun them when they move into the neighborhood? Are their kids harrassed at school for "being different"? Are they turned down for employment because of negative stereotypes about the work ethic of their "people"?

With all due respect, you present in this post a negative stereotype with your statement. Why is your stereotype different or more tolerable? Why is it okay to assume the rich are all carefree, privileged white Republicans who deserve in application less opportunities than all poor non-white Democrats? I submit to live equally (which is my dream as well), we have to get away from the whole "You don't know what suffering is" mindset and quit putting people in these pidgeonholes. I mean clearly there are poor white disadvantaged kids whose parents happen to be Republican. I think they do not deserve less opportunity than a minority child based on that fact alone? That is why I say give the poor more opportunities regardless of race or political affiliation.

Note: Johnny - I am not picking on you personally and respect your opinion - I am just commenting on the general topic of your post.

[jwd]

strandinthewind:
With all due respect, you present in this post a negative stereotype with your statement. Why is your stereotype different or more tolerable? Why is it okay to assume the rich are all carefree, privileged white Republicans who deserve in application less opportunities than all poor non-white Democrats? I submit to live equally (which is my dream as well), we have to get away from the whole "You don't know what suffering is" mindset and quit putting people in these pidgeonholes. I mean clearly there are poor white disadvantaged kids whose parents happen to be Republican. I think they do not deserve less opportunity than a minority child based on that fact alone? That is why I say give the poor more opportunities regardless of race or political affiliation.

Note: Johnny - I am not picking on you personally and respect your opinion - I am just commenting on the general topic of your post.

Agreed. I was thinking the same thing when reading Johnny's post. Not all white men are rich Republicans. Hell, not even all Republicans are rich. And even if a white man was rich and Republican, should he be denied an education or a job based solely on the the color of his skin and/or his gender. IMO that'd be an AFFIRMATIVE NO. I pity the poor white man these days.


Joe

[dissention]

Originally posted by jwd
Agreed. I was thinking the same thing when reading Johnny's post. Not all white men are rich Republicans. Hell, not even all Republicans are rich.

Guys,

He wasn't saying all white men are rich Republicans, he was making an example of how white, male Republicans have it compared to certain minority groups (gays, blacks, latinos, etc.). He made his point perfectly well by giving examples of this, i.e. their children aren't minorities, so they don't have to worry about being called racial slurs. They aren't denied housing like some minorities just because of their race. They don't get denied jobs because they're of dark skin and look poor. At least that's how I read his post.

Agree with his opinion or don't, but don't put words in his mouth.

[jwd]

dissention:
Agree with his opinion or don't, but don't put words in his mouth.

Johnny Stew:
I mean, seriously, how bad do white male Republicans really have it, for example?

That's the quote, not putting words in his mouth. White male Republicans can be poor and in need of help/assistance too. Why even use Republican, there are rich white male Democrats too. It was a very stereotypical statement. Let's not use affirmative action based strictly on gender and race but more on one's poverty level.


Joe

[gldstwmn]

What percentage of Blacks, Hispanics and women live below the poverty line? Now, what percentage of white men live below the poverty line?

[jwd]

gldstwmn:
What percentage of Blacks, Hispanics and women live below the poverty line? Now, what percentage of white men live below the poverty line?

I'd say the percentage of the first group would be higher. However there ARE white men who live below the poverty line. Let's not forget them based upon the color of their skin or their gender.


Joe

[gldstwmn]

Originally posted by jwd
I'd say the percentage of the first group would be higher. However there ARE white men who live below the poverty line. Let's not forget them based upon the color of their skin or their gender.


Joe

Nor should they be more important.

[jwd]

gldstwmn:
Nor should they be more important.

I would agree with that.


Joe

[jwd]

Needless to say there ARE rich Hispanics and Blacks. In this day and age their children would get preferential treatment, based on affirmative action, over a male from a poor white family. Let's just make it fair for everyone.


Joe

[Rob67]

Originally posted by jwd
Needless to say there ARE rich Hispanics and Blacks. In this day and age their children would get preferential treatment, based on affirmative action, over a male from a poor white family. Let's just make it fair for everyone.


Joe

Absolutely...If I start a business, I want to be able to hire the brightest and the best people I can find to help grow said business whether they are white, brown, yellow, green, purple with white polka dots, etc.

It should have nothing to do with race. A buddy of mine HATES affirmative action. He's black and considers it a slap in the face because he busted his $ss in school and doesn't think he or anyone else should be handed anything without working for it.

Plus...being rich and being Republican are not the same thing. Many times I hear people bitch about the "rich Republicans." I'm a Republican and I'm nowhere near being rich. Although, I believe in our system and the ability to make a decent living if you work hard at it.

Rob