True Believers: Inside the Dean Campaign

dissention · #1 03-07-2004, 11:28 PM

Anyone see it tonight?

All I can say is that, boy, Dean sure is an asshole.

And Trippi is a god.

CarneVaca · #2 03-08-2004, 09:05 AM

This is what you got from the show!?

What I got is that once the media decided it was going to knock Dean down, it happened fairly quickly.

I also got a very real sense that there's a lot of people out there who feel the same way I do. Those people might vote for Kerry if they hold their noses.

strandinthewind · #3 03-08-2004, 09:53 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by CarneVaca
Those people might vote for Kerry if they hold their noses.

I know many people who think Kerry is an arrogant, snooty, Yankee, but they are begrudgingly going to vote for him because W is such a malapprop.

dissention · #4 03-08-2004, 10:00 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by CarneVaca
This is what you got from the show!?

What I got is that once the media decided it was going to knock Dean down, it happened fairly quickly.

I also got a very real sense that there's a lot of people out there who feel the same way I do. Those people might vote for Kerry if they hold their noses.

That's not all I got from the show; it just confirmed what I believed all along. Joe Trippi was the entire campaign, not HoDe. HoDe came off as the spokesman for Trippi, IMO. I was stunned when Dean called Trippi and told him "Kerry's giving MY stump speech." Dean just really rubbed me the wrong way by how he acted towards Trippi.

I thought it was very telling of the media when one of the campaign staffers showed the actual clip of the "I Have A Scream" speech. The Lieberman memo sickened me and my heart really went out to those kids. You could see the hurt in their eyes when they lost Iowa.

The media were lying in wait ever since Dean began his campaign. The ambush over the caucus statements were rather shocking, too. They weren't just doing their job, they were being vicious.

gldstwmn · #5 03-08-2004, 11:12 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by dissention
Anyone see it tonight?

All I can say is that, boy, Dean sure is an asshole.

And Trippi is a god.

Wonder how much he sold this to CNN for?

gldstwmn · #6 03-08-2004, 11:13 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by strandinthewind

I know many people who think Kerry is an arrogant, snooty, Yankee, but they are begrudgingly going to vote for him because W is such a malapprop.

And they'll be pleasantly surprised even though he is a Yankee.

gldstwmn · #7 03-08-2004, 11:14 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by CarneVaca

I also got a very real sense that there's a lot of people out there who feel the same way I do. Those people might vote for Kerry if they hold their noses.

Or they'll sit around a bitch about losing and tilt at windmills for the next four years.

CarneVaca · #8 03-09-2004, 09:34 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by gldstwmn
Or they'll sit around a bitch about losing and tilt at windmills for the next four years.

You ain't going to see me complain about Kerry losing.

gldstwmn · #9 03-09-2004, 12:02 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by CarneVaca
You ain't going to see me complain about Kerry losing.

I know 'cause he ain't going to.

strandinthewind · #10 03-09-2004, 01:37 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by gldstwmn
And they'll be pleasantly surprised even though he is a Yankee.

what about arrogant and snooty

CarneVaca · #11 03-09-2004, 03:13 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by gldstwmn
I know 'cause he ain't going to.

OK, then, I shall complain...

Johnny Stew · #12 03-09-2004, 03:24 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by CarneVaca
You ain't going to see me complain about Kerry losing.

I know he's not your choice, but could he really be worse than Bush?

I just don't see it.

And I still don't see how anyone can support a president who's pushing to forever change the constitution, to insure the perpetuation of discrimination.

CarneVaca · #13 03-09-2004, 03:45 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Johnny Stew
I know he's not your choice, but could he really be worse than Bush?

I just don't see it.

I've never said that. I merely insist, and will continue to insist, that he is not good enough. So wasn't Gore. We can do better.

Johnny, if we could only knock down this two-party mental prison and get all these people who are holding their noses to vote for Kerry, combine them with the third-party voters who are left of center and all the left-of-center non-voters out there who simply are too disgusted with politics, we might be able to do something good. It ain't gonna happen this year, I realize. But do you think that putting Democrats in the White House who keep trying to out-Republican the Republicans is the answer in the long run?

Band-aids are only going to get us so far. What I see happening with the Democrats is a refusal to deal with the issues.

They would have been forced to by now if not for 9/11. The WTO protests were beginning to shape up as a repeat of the 1960s. Then we saw some signs of life with the anti-war demonstrations, but those died down. The movement is not dead, though. We'll see a resumption of these movements by people who are a lot less patient within a couple years when Iraq has become even messier and jobs have continued to be exported. And that will happen with Bush or Kerry.

There are fundamental issues that the Democrats have refused to address, and when Edwards or Kerry addressed them superficially, it was only to steal Dean's thunder.

Johnny Stew · #14 03-09-2004, 04:21 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by CarneVaca
I've never said that. I merely insist, and will continue to insist, that he is not good enough. So wasn't Gore. We can do better.

Band-aids are only going to get us so far. What I see happening with the Democrats is a refusal to deal with the issues.

Jason and I have had this conversation before, and I'm not saying that the Democratic party is perfect.
They've disappointed me on many occasions, but the idea of four more years of the current Republican/conservative agenda for discrimination and intolerance, scares the hell out of me.

If Kerry is merely a temporary bandage, so be it... but we need to stop the hemorrhaging.
I sincerely believe that it'll only be after Bush is out of office, that we can start fixing what's wrong.

If he gets a second-term, it seems almost hopeless for many of the issues I believe most strongly about. And I don't like living in a world where there's no hope.

CarneVaca · #15 03-09-2004, 04:27 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Johnny Stew
If Kerry is merely a temporary bandage, so be it... but we need to stop the hemorrhaging.
I sincerely believe that it'll only be after Bush is out of office, that we can start fixing what's wrong.

If he gets a second-term, it seems almost hopeless for many of the issues I believe most strongly about. And I don't like living in a world where there's no hope.

Johnny, I certainly appreciate your position. Those are the same issues that trouble me. But I believe this nation is stronger than what another four years of Bushism can do. After all, we've made it through slavery, a civil war, the suffrage movement and the Civil Rights movement, and came out on the correct (not to say right) side of the issues. But there had to be real struggle and pain. Acquiescing to mediocrity does not a great nation make.

So, what I'm saying to you is, it ain't hopeless if Bush wins. That's what the Democrats want you to believe. They're using fear tactics, just like the Republicans do. If they could only focus on the real issues instead...