The Sunday Times: Excess all areas

[SteveMacD]

Originally Posted by CADreaming

It doesn't add up to me that he suddenly had this epiphany of how crazy a tour would get. I mean, maybe he witnessed a break in the sobriety at rehearsal or a video shoot or maybe he even partook and then realized how hard it was going to be.

My theory is that he just didn't want to be in any band anymore. What was different this time?

Well, per Mick and Billy, Billy was going to be on the Tango tour regardless because Lindsey wanted a second guitarist, and Billy was the obvious choice, considering his work with Mick, Christine, Stevie, and even Lindsey. Maybe Lindsey even figured that Billy could just take over altogether, which would free him up from being in the band.

[CADreaming]

Interesting. I wondered if he had any input in his replacement(s).

But, why didn't he consider not getting so involved in the band before he produced a new album, made videos, did press, and booked a tour?

[SteveMacD]

Originally Posted by CADreaming

Interesting. I wondered if he had any input in his replacement(s).

I doubt he had any input, but I'm sure he assumed Billy was their guy. I doubt he'd even heard of Rick Vito, who Mick had met and started to work with on a Rick Vito solo project through Billy.

But, why didn't he consider not getting so involved in the band before he produced a new album, made videos, did press, and booked a tour?

Per an interview I've heard from 1990, Mick got a lawyer to draft some document, and the band started working with a different producer, all of which Lindsey felt was unacceptable. IMO, they should've parted ways with Stevie and Lindsey after the "Tusk" tour, or even the "Mirage" tour and found another guitarist/vocalist (I'm thinking Richard Thompson) and forged forward. No offense to Stevie, but she she was dead weight from 1986 to 1997, and she's all but admitted that.

[bombaysaffires]

Originally Posted by SteveMacD

I doubt he had any input, but I'm sure he assumed Billy was their guy. I doubt he'd even heard of Rick Vito, who Mick had met and started to work with on a Rick Vito solo project through Billy.


Per an interview I've heard from 1990, Mick got a lawyer to draft some document, and the band started working with a different producer, all of which Lindsey felt was unacceptable. IMO, they should've parted ways with Stevie and Lindsey after the "Tusk" tour, or even the "Mirage" tour and found another guitarist/vocalist (I'm thinking Richard Thompson) and forged forward. No offense to Stevie, but she she was dead weight from 1986 to 1997, and she's all but admitted that.

perhaps, but the fact remains she was the biggest name in the band and they drew a lot of fans to concerts etc based on her name, so ditching her would have seriously reduced their ticket sales and their PR. In many ways Stevie should have left the band for her *own* sake -- a large part of her drug use came out of the grind of running two careers and being exhausted and using coke to keep going.

[vivfox]

Originally Posted by SteveMacD

Well, per Mick and Billy, Billy was going to be on the Tango tour regardless because Lindsey wanted a second guitarist, and Billy was the obvious choice, considering his work with Mick, Christine, Stevie, and even Lindsey. Maybe Lindsey even figured that Billy could just take over altogether, which would free him up from being in the band.

No where have I ever read where Lindsey said he wanted a second guitarist. He always had Ray Lindsey playing for him right behind a big amp when he needed assistance.

[michelej1]

Originally Posted by vivfox

No where have I ever read where Lindsey said he wanted a second guitarist. He always had Ray Lindsey playing for him right behind a big amp when he needed assistance.

I know Christine said Lindsey wanted more guitar for a fuller sound too. I never heard Lindsey say he did, although you see the guitar army he had for OOTC, so he might have wanted it for that FM tour. I don't know. Of course, Lindsey made fun of them for having two guitarists to replace him, so who knows. But Christine said that had been his plan.

Michele

[CADreaming]

Originally Posted by michelej1

I know Christine said Lindsey wanted more guitar for a fuller sound too. I never heard Lindsey say he did, although you see the guitar army he had for OOTC, so he might have wanted it for that FM tour. I don't know. Of course, Lindsey made fun of them for having two guitarists to replace him, so who knows. But Christine said that had been his plan.

Michele

That sort of sounds like it wasn't really a surprise then. Is it possible he had told them all along he wasn't doing the tour and maybe they thought they could twist his arm?

[michelej1]

Originally Posted by CADreaming

That sort of sounds like it wasn't really a surprise then. Is it possible he had told them all along he wasn't doing the tour and maybe they thought they could twist his arm?

I think it's more of a thing where you work up your courage to do something and you just don't. You kind of cop out. I think Lindsey dragged his feet and they all knew he was reluctant and he tried to tell them indirectly, but didn't say the words to them. The farther he let it go, the harder it was. It's like waiting until the wedding day to back out of marriage, even though you knew you weren't really into it 3 months ago. Michele

[SteveMacD]

Originally Posted by vivfox

No where have I ever read where Lindsey said he wanted a second guitarist. He always had Ray Lindsey playing for him right behind a big amp when he needed assistance.

Mick and Christine did an interview that came out around Christmas, 1987 for a magazine. I don't remember what it was called (although, I do remember something about Christine having a bumper sticker that said "I Break for Penguins"), and a color copy of this picture was on the cover.



In the interview, they said that Lindsey said that he wanted a second full-time guitarist. I think this is the interview where Mick hinted that it probably would have been Billy Burnette. I even asked Billy about that on his Q&A on here, and he confirmed that Mick had said that at one point.

[michelej1]

This is what Christine said:

http://bla.fleetwoodmac.net/index.ph...v2&id=859&c=18

With Buckingham gone, two guitarists--Rick Vito and Billy Burnette--have been added to the touring lineup. Both players have known the other Mac members for years, and, according to McVie, “They fit in perfectly. Billy’s mainly playing rhythm, which is refreshing and really fills out the sound. When we talked with Lindsey about touring and augmenting the band, he was planning on having more people--maybe four guitarists and six percussionists.”

Four guitarists? Maybe Lindsey left because he was ashamed. Maybe he said to himself, "My guitar playing just sucks. I better hire as many more guitarists as possible, because I am really bringing this band down."

Michele

[Deeshere]

Originally Posted by michelej1

This is what Christine said:

http://bla.fleetwoodmac.net/index.ph...v2&id=859&c=18



Four guitarists? Maybe Lindsey left because he was ashamed. Maybe he said to himself, "My guitar playing just sucks. I better hire as many more guitarists as possible, because I am really bringing this band down."

Michele

In several interviews Mick said Lindsey was making all sorts of demands about wanting more guitarists and adding percussionists to the TITN tour. All of which the band agreed to.

I think Lindsey was making large demands from the band hoping the band would say no to them which would give him an excuse he could use to explain why he would not tour with them. No way do I think Lindsey ever thought his guitar playing sucked. (if you don't like it, you just don't have the ears for it )

The problem was the band gave into all his demands trying to get him to go on tour, so he was eventually cornered and had to just come out and tell them he was leaving the band which lead to the huge 1987 blow up.

I also wonder how Lindsey would feel if Chris did decide to rejoin the band. I am sure they would all let her, but I get the feeling that Lindsey would not be too happy about it. He's made a point over the years of talking about how much happier he is with the sound of their music and how it sounds more edgy without Chris's piano playing.

Plus I was surprised that in interviews over the years he's mentioned how he felt that Chris and Stevie pushed each other to leave their respective partners, and that he felt that if Stevie did not have Chris there to commiserate with, he and Stevie might have worked things out. It seemed to me that he had a touch of bitterness about it (maybe towards Chris? I don't know) other wise why even bring the subject up.

[michelej1]

Originally Posted by Deeshere

Plus I was surprised that in interviews over the years he's mentioned how he felt that Chris and Stevie pushed each other to leave their respective partners, and that he felt that if Stevie did not have Chris there to commiserate with, he and Stevie might have worked things out. It seemed to me that he had a touch of bitterness about it (maybe towards Chris? I don't know) other wise why even bring the subject up.

I think he was upset that Chris did not join them for SYW. If she wanted to come back, not for this tour, but for the next one, I think he would be excited. He might have fewer songs on stage, but she wouldn't press him to cut ISA or anything like that. Plus, she's been writing songs and so has she and she would make it possible for him to have the new album that Stevie has been resisting. She would help him to get around Stevie and the band could promote the whole thing as her last tour with the band and make more money.

As for Lindsey in 1987, I don't think he was making unreasonable demands for the Tango tour. I think he was going for the layered sound that he wanted for his own OOTC tour later. I think he was trying to envision something similar to that for FM's tour and that he still kept that goal in mind when he planned his OOTC tour, although he didn't have FM's budget.

Michele

[SteveMacD]

Originally Posted by michelej1

As for Lindsey in 1987, I don't think he was making unreasonable demands for the Tango tour. I think he was going for the layered sound that he wanted for his own OOTC tour later.

I don't, either, and the band pretty much met all of those demands even without him touring. They had the percussionist, the background singers, two full-time guitarists, and even Ray Lindsey chiming in on "Go Your Own Way."

What has always bothered me is how he said things like "I think it's funny that they had to get two guitarists to replace me."

[Deeshere]

Originally Posted by michelej1

he didn't have FM's budget

Michele

That's very true . He said he had to pay for all those extra guitarist out of his own pocket and that his accountants wouldn't let him do that again.

[louielouie2000]

Originally Posted by Deeshere

In several interviews Mick said Lindsey was making all sorts of demands about wanting more guitarists and adding percussionists to the TITN tour. All of which the band agreed to.

I think Lindsey was making large demands from the band hoping the band would say no to them which would give him an excuse he could use to explain why he would not tour with them. No way do I think Lindsey ever thought his guitar playing sucked. (if you don't like it, you just don't have the ears for it )

The problem was the band gave into all his demands trying to get him to go on tour, so he was eventually cornered and had to just come out and tell them he was leaving the band which lead to the huge 1987 blow up.

I also wonder how Lindsey would feel if Chris did decide to rejoin the band. I am sure they would all let her, but I get the feeling that Lindsey would not be too happy about it. He's made a point over the years of talking about how much happier he is with the sound of their music and how it sounds more edgy without Chris's piano playing.

Plus I was surprised that in interviews over the years he's mentioned how he felt that Chris and Stevie pushed each other to leave their respective partners, and that he felt that if Stevie did not have Chris there to commiserate with, he and Stevie might have worked things out. It seemed to me that he had a touch of bitterness about it (maybe towards Chris? I don't know) other wise why even bring the subject up.

While I do think Lindsey was dreaming of escaping the band after recording Tango, I don't think he was trying to get fired/make unreasonable demands as a scapegoat. My guess is he was simply trying to relieve some stress by having people help him out onstage. Plus, that person(s) could help insulate him from the band members which he wasn't getting along with at that point (ie: all of them). There are a lot of things you can say about Lindsey (in the past), but I don't think you can say he's ever cared for anything more than the quality/style of the music he's putting out. Be that music recorded, or live. He's very much a purist when it comes to his craft. He may play good cop/bad cop to get his way, but generally speaking, I think (in his mind at least), it's always for the betterment of the songs.