complete (?) blue horizon sessions

lazy poker · #1 05-25-2014, 09:39 AM

a very heartily hello to everyone!

though I'm a newbie here, i already have been an avid reader of "ledge" threads for quite some years now. I became a real ledgie, simply because there are questions and thoughts, nagging me again and again, and i decided i need to get in touch with you out there to try and find some answers . . . and maybe share the odd thought here and there . . . and in general to have fun with you concerning all things FM. when i say "all things" i have to admit that my obsession with FM comprises mainly the first few phases, so to speak - from the very beginnings up to . . . say, around the time of "kiln house" (the green / spencer years, mostly). also i'd like to point out that it's my fate to be german - so, please, don't judge too harshly on me if you detect bits of faulty english here and there . . . i try to do my very best! this as a brief intro only.

back on topic: "the complete blue horizon sessions" series (FM and others) raised several questions to me, which - as far as i know - hadn't been discussed here (please, correct me in case i'm wrong).

starting with the FM set. ages ago i aquired a bootleg cassette with what seemed to be an unedited version of "blues jam at chess". apart from including tracks that have been completely unissued (until their appearance in said 6 cd set) there were a few full-length tracks which have been cropped down for the album. i'll have to try to dig out this cassette from somewhere in my vaults again, but i clearly remember noticing, for instance, some choruses in "watch out" that have been edited out for the album. and this wasn't the only track that underwent such "surgery". and the release of the sessions box made me wonder why mike vernon didn't include the complete tracks. there's little guessing why they have been edited in the first place: there wasn't that much happening in those choruses - no really exciting soloing or stuff going on. but why not leave the tracks in their original entirety for this release (we're talking of about half-a-minute parts, adding approximately 2 or 3 minutes (the MOST) to the total playing time) - for completeness' sake!

on to duster bennett. the COMPLETE sessions? definitely NOT! first of all: "bright lights, big city" already had a fade-out on the live album. and i do confess: i generally HATE live music being faded out! even worse: the "sessions" release has an even earlier fade-out - a whole chorus or 54 seconds in digits worth! next: as every afficionado of duster's music will know: "fresh country jam" (released as a single B-side) is from the very same gig. to me it would've been a logical thing to re-instate that track at its original spot in that evening's setlist. it was not to be. not enough with that: the cd releases "blue inside" (indigo) and "bright lights, big city - the collector's duster bennett" (castle) both present not only exactly this version of "fresh country jam" plus a rather entertaining spoken intro by duster, which again was left off the remastered blue horizon platters. two more tracks from the memorable april 15 1969 gig at the angel hotel ("it's a man down there" and "further up on the road") can be found on those indigo and castle cds only! AND: i find it very hard to believe, that the house band - led by top topham and peter "blue" - really should've been on stage that night for 2 numbers only.

okay, there are some reasons or pseudo-reasons that might spring to mind - limited cd playing time, artistic or musical aspects, etcetera and so on. but then this project should've not been tagged "complete", as it simply ain't that. (btw: i could go on at least about the champion jack dupree release, but i will leave it at that for the moment being.)

following the release of his duster bennett biography i had an e-mail correspondence with martin celmins. though i asked him about these aspects, too, he didn't share his thoughts about them with me. sadly, i couldn't get in touch with mike vernon, who surely is THE man who could really shed some light on all this - if he would. anyway, i would be curious to know what YOU might have to say about it. maybe somebody could come up with more enlightening assumptions or even facts.

thanks a million in advance, and keep on rockin'

p.s. what a thrill it is to be on the same forum as jeremy spencer! jeremy, i can't thank you enough for your music and inspiration to me as a guitarist - then, in the days when i was starting out (and hadn't even heard about elmore before), and now, that you still amaze me with your sophisticated and tasteful playing. sorry, but i just had to get that off my chest . . .

lazy poker · #2 05-25-2014, 10:06 AM

i forgot to mention 2 things:

the fact that mike vernon edited out the spoken links from "o.k. ken?" on the "complete sessions" by chicken shack is - as he frankly admitted - due to reasons of taste. complete sessions?

in "mojo" magazine there has been talk of mike vernon being at work on a second volume of "the blue horizon story" . . . ages ago! obviously this would comprise the last phase of the original label, when distributed by polydor. does anybody have a clue of what had happened to that?

wetcamelfood · #3 05-25-2014, 11:54 AM

Welcome!

Only thing I could say in Vernon's defense is that he clearly wanted to go by the masters when he could (regarding the bonus tracks anyway) and as it is, I think he said something on the FM CBHS notes to the effect that it was only going to be 4 discs but then went to 6 when they found more masters they had thought were lost. I guess there is the possibility that he had "some" extra stuff that might not have been included due to disc time restrictions and didn't want to put out a 7 disc set with the 7th disc only including a song or two (even though I would've bought it through grumbling of a short disc)

Having said that, I do find it interesting though, that very few if any of the other CBHS sets have extra stuff the way the Mac one does in terms of before song banter etc. So NONE of the other BH artist's masters were kicking around that had at least this on them to include? Just the Mac's ones?

I also found it odd they felt the need to edit out the OK Ken intros and it's clear they did those from the finished album masters, not the original masters which would've been much easier and sounded better to edit from instead of the fade ins after the intros (I mean if they were intent on doing this). So again, NO Chicken Shack masters? If it were me, I'd have added track spaces so people could either start the track at the beginning of the intro or after the intro but before the song part kicked in so they at least had the option. That's just me though.

You have some good points though and I hope others can shed some light on them here. It always bothered me why Peter & the band would only show up to the Duster gig to only play on 2 songs...

John

lazy poker · #4 05-25-2014, 01:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wetcamelfood

Welcome!

Only thing I could say in Vernon's defense is that he clearly wanted to go by the masters when he could (regarding the bonus tracks anyway) and as it is, I think he said something on the FM CBHS notes to the effect that it was only going to be 4 discs but then went to 6 when they found more masters they had thought were lost. I guess there is the possibility that he had "some" extra stuff that might not have been included due to disc time restrictions and didn't want to put out a 7 disc set with the 7th disc only including a song or two (even though I would've bought it through grumbling of a short disc)

Having said that, I do find it interesting though, that very few if any of the other CBHS sets have extra stuff the way the Mac one does in terms of before song banter etc. So NONE of the other BH artist's masters were kicking around that had at least this on them to include? Just the Mac's ones?

I also found it odd they felt the need to edit out the OK Ken intros and it's clear they did those from the finished album masters, not the original masters which would've been much easier and sounded better to edit from instead of the fade ins after the intros (I mean if they were intent on doing this). So again, NO Chicken Shack masters? If it were me, I'd have added track spaces so people could either start the track at the beginning of the intro or after the intro but before the song part kicked in so they at least had the option. That's just me though.

You have some good points though and I hope others can shed some light on them here. It always bothered me why Peter & the band would only show up to the Duster gig to only play on 2 songs...

John

hi, john,

and thanks for your opinion!

what you're talking about, i believe, are not the masters, but the original MULTITRACK tapes. the chicken shack intro matter shows this very well: you're completely right - you can still detect some noises, laughter etc. because they only worked with the stereo masters and just cut that stuff off as much as possible. had they worked with the multitracks, every little bit of that stuff would have been eliminated completely. but i also would've preferred that they had left it the way it was and set additional track markers, so that those who wanted to listen to only the music could program it that way. multitracks would also have given 'em the chance to improve on the old-fashioned stereo mix (as they did with some FM tracks) . . . assuming they'd have been willing to invest the needed time . . . and money!

one mustn't forget, that the mac were blue horizon's biggest sellers by far - so i suppose mike vernon might well have considered more carefully keeping their multitrack tapes in the archives.

though other bh artists had additional stuff on their "sessions" cd as well, albeit not nearly that extensively. on the johnny young cd you can listen to banter and false starts, too, the same with otis spann (but then again - it's also the mac "backing" him up). whereas the christine perfect sessions on the other hand obviously left hardly any extras. oh, dear!

in the end we have to be contended with the fact that this stuff saw the light of day in this form on cd AT ALL. took a long time anyway. but as I said before - it still keeps naggin' me . . .

wetcamelfood · #5 05-25-2014, 01:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lazy poker

hi, john,

and thanks for your opinion!

what you're talking about, i believe, are not the masters, but the original MULTITRACK tapes. the chicken shack intro matter shows this very well: you're completely right - you can still detect some noises, laughter etc. because they only worked with the stereo masters and just cut that stuff off as much as possible. had they worked with the multitracks, every little bit of that stuff would have been eliminated completely. but i also would've preferred that they had left it the way it was and set additional track markers, so that those who wanted to listen to only the music could program it that way. multitracks would also have given 'em the chance to improve on the old-fashioned stereo mix (as they did with some FM tracks) . . . assuming they'd have been willing to invest the needed time . . . and money!

one mustn't forget, that the mac were blue horizon's biggest sellers by far - so i suppose mike vernon might well have considered more carefully keeping their multitrack tapes in the archives.

though other bh artists had additional stuff on their "sessions" cd as well, albeit not nearly that extensively. on the johnny young cd you can listen to banter and false starts, too, the same with otis spann (but then again - it's also the mac "backing" him up). whereas the christine perfect sessions on the other hand obviously left hardly any extras. oh, dear!

in the end we have to be contended with the fact that this stuff saw the light of day in this form on cd AT ALL. took a long time anyway. but as I said before - it still keeps naggin' me . . .

Yeah, multitracks, that's what I meant.

John