so, lindsey or stevie? who owns this album more?

[strandinthewind]

Originally Posted by jbrownsjr@aol.com

A hip replacement is very serious. I bow to her for what she's doing!

I am unsure she has actually had it replaced, but she severely injured it last year at this time and she was hardly able to walk without pain uch less twirl on stage in five inch boots. Someone in the band told me that.

[face of glass]

Originally Posted by strandinthewind

Come On. Do you think WB would have released this record is Stevie had not come on board?

I don't think WB would release anything by FM these days if it didn't involve Stevie Nicks.

The same WB that poo poo's Lb's GOS material in the first place. Do you think LB could have sold out or come close to it the huge venues on the first leg of this tour.

No, no and no. Fleetwood Mac has never been just Mick and John plus the singer/songwriter/instrumentalist, the chemistry between the writers/main performers has always been a big draw.

Based on his relative unknown status when compared to the FM name and more importantly Stevie Nicks name, the anser is no - LB could not have been this big time.

I agree. And the tour is the main reason for them to get the money and he needs it now and takes full advantage of the situation.

Also, I am not saying LB needs to be big time rock and roll, I am just saying he seems to covet it for whatever reason.

Sure, he benefits from touring but I think his heart isn't entirely into it by now. It's into the studio recordings and that's where he doesn't compromise, at least to the extent that has been suggested by some of you. IMO, of course.

*digression* So he gets the money from the tours and gets to put out an album of material almost the way he wants it to be. He knows it's the nostalgic audience who come to the shows anyway and most of them don't care a damn about the music of SYW. Whereas Stevie seems to be almost too concerned with sales and target groups right now. *digression*

Finally, Stevie has always harmonized on almost all of LB's stuff and harmonizes on SYW in many ways. So, I do not get your point.

But she doesn't add a thing to those IMO. It doesn't matter if she's there or not, except for possibly the first single.

What I'm speaking about here is the absence of group spirit, of the real band feel in those tracks. It could have been more present if Lindsey had taken Stevie into account when he was first forming those tunes but he didn't because they were solo material.

On "GYOW" it's not just Lindsey's personality that's expressed, it's of the entire group and Stevie, as Marcello Carlin pointed out, is out-singing LB in there.

He hasn't been interested in real group work for a long time and that is because he wanted to shake off the Rumours package. And I think that the point when Stevie can significantly influence Lindsey's songs will come only when Lindsey takes her into account before starting to work on the arrangement.

[strandinthewind]

I pretty much agree with everything you said with the sole exception of "Whereas Stevie seems to be almost too concerned with sales and target groups right now." Clearly LB is interested in sales ane the money and fame that comes with it. If he was not, he would have released his record on the net and sold whatever it sold He did not do that. Instead, he went back to FM. Why? Because FM can sell more than he can on his own and he likes the high life (no pun intended ).

I do not fault him for this.

[sodascouts]

Originally Posted by face of glass

Sure, he benefits from touring but I think his heart isn't entirely into it by now. It's into the studio recordings and that's where he doesn't compromise, at least to the extent that has been suggested by some of you. IMO, of course.

I get the entirely opposite impression. When he performs onstage, I see a man who is putting his heart and soul into giving the best performance possible.

Originally Posted by face of glass

On "GYOW" it's not just Lindsey's personality that's expressed, it's of the entire group and Stevie, as Marcello Carlin pointed out, is out-singing LB in there.

I have to disagree with you and Mr. Carlin. Lindsey dominates that song, not only for the obvious reasons but because the attitude is solely his - as Stevie has repeatedly (and tiresomely) insisted.

Originally Posted by face of glass

He hasn't been interested in real group work for a long time and that is because he wanted to shake off the Rumours package. And I think that the point when Stevie can significantly influence Lindsey's songs will come only when Lindsey takes her into account before starting to work on the arrangement.

No arguing with that. Luckily he seems very interested in working with Stevie "from the ground up" on the next album. Now it's up to Stevie to decide whether she will enable him to take her into account by agreeing to working with him to that extent. In that way, her influence on how his songs will be crafted is huge! lol

[face of glass]

Originally Posted by strandinthewind

I pretty much agree with everything you said with the sole exception of "Whereas Stevie seems to be almost too concerned with sales and target groups right now." Clearly LB is interested in sales ane the money and fame that comes with it. If he was not, he would have released his record on the net and sold whatever it sold He did not do that. Instead, he went back to FM. Why? Because FM can sell more than he can on his own and he likes the high life (no pun intended ).

I do not fault him for this.

If he was truly interested in album sales, I think he’d try to make his music sound closer to what is the public idea of the typical FM sound. I think Stevie’s solo music fits into this category a lot better than Lindsey’s all-over-the-place diversity.

What I tried to say is that he knows he can get a lot of money but he also knows he gets it from touring. SYW’s overall release didn’t matter that much; FM could still have gone on tour and advertised that even though they wouldn’t have had anything genuinely new to play.

I don’t think he tried to aim for grand commerciality with any of his SYW songs and he didn’t need to compromise in that part. He compromised on the double album issue but even that was most likely because of band’s internal politics, not because he was afraid of the lack of sales. It doesn’t matter to him whether it would be 300,000 or 900,000 copies sold.

I think FM allows for him to have this tortured artistic schtick and also earn some significant money at the same time. And while the whole “two bedroom” deal was inadequately stated, I think he did raise a valid point there. FM are in a position in which it doesn’t hugely matter what the content of their next studio album is; they get their money from the tours. So they had nothing to prove with SYW and I don’t think they truly needed to cave in on its content. Stevie seemed very worried about it but I think her worries, while understandable, were also a bit off-base.

[face of glass]

Originally Posted by sodascouts

I get the entirely opposite impression. When he performs onstage, I see a man who is putting his heart and soul into giving the best performance possible.

It's understandable. I guess I'm just a bit too cynical because of all of that choreography. It does put at least some of his stage antics under my suspicion.

I have to disagree with you and Mr. Carlin. Lindsey dominates that song, not only for the obvious reasons but because the attitude is solely his - as Stevie has repeatedly (and tiresomely) insisted.

I was speaking of the musical side here mainly. And I think Stevie's vocals are the necessary counterpoint to LB's attitude in "GYOW".

Now it's up to Stevie to decide whether she will enable him to take her into account by agreeing to working with him to that extent. In that way, her influence on how his songs will be crafted is huge! lol

SNL shipper hopes?

(I wish for the true return of that chemistry too, to some extent at least.)

[sodascouts]

Originally Posted by face of glass

I don’t think he tried to aim for grand commerciality with any of his SYW songs and he didn’t need to compromise in that part. He compromised on the double album issue but even that was most likely because of band’s internal politics, not because he was afraid of the lack of sales. It doesn’t matter to him whether it would be 300,000 or 900,000 copies sold.

Odd how at first he seemed unconcerned about lack of sales, then all of the sudden was worrying about it once the double album was secured. Why? Because he was afraid they wouldn't make enough money touring. Specifically, that Stevie would cut the tour short. Which made me go "hmmm...."

[sodascouts]

Originally Posted by face of glass

SNL shipper hopes?
(I wish for the true return of that chemistry too, to some extent at least.)

Actually, they're Lindsey's hopes, as I stated. So, do you believe Lindsey himself is a "shipper"? That's quite a bold statement! lol!

[strandinthewind]

I do not place all of that on Stevie - after all in that same doc. she stated that unlike the other three, she had no family and did not need to worry that much about it. I think she is just in the market more to know what to do to get a record out She has been at this rodeo about three times more than LB and is successful at it. They are all worried about the sales of the record because the record companies advance millions of $$$$ in anticipation of it.

I think LB wants to be the creative genius who puts out something very inconventional and then have that be a huge hit. That way his is vindicated for want of a better word.

[strandinthewind]

Originally Posted by sodascouts

Specifically, that Stevie would cut the tour short. Which made me go "hmmm...."

I do not think Stevie would cur the tour short. I think they agreed to a 40 show first leg and then see what happens after that. So, she would be within what she agreed, etc. Certainly, that has not been the case so far on this tour.

[CarneVaca]

I think Stevie was under the illusion that they were going to sell millions of SYW copies, whereas Lindsey seemed to be more grounded on the idea that the money would come from the tour. In that sense, he was more of a realist.

[strandinthewind]

Originally Posted by CarneVaca

I think Stevie was under the illusion that they were going to sell millions of SYW copies, whereas Lindsey seemed to be more grounded on the idea that the money would come from the tour. In that sense, he was more of a realist.

If she based he figures on history, (TITN, The Dance, etc.) she was being realistic. But that is what she was talking about when she said we have to do everything we can to ensure that. Personally, I think they all wanted to hit one out of the ballpark and, sadly, that just did not happen even though SYW is really good. I think the lack of blockbuster sales does not come from the lack hits. I mean 15 or so years ago, SYHA and SYW would have been top ten IMO. I think that they are just too old to relate to the younger music buying public, just as Stevie said.

[face of glass]

Originally Posted by sodascouts

Actually, they're Lindsey's hopes, as I stated. So, do you believe Lindsey himself is a "shipper"? That's quite a bold statement! lol!

"We were quoted out of context, it was great".

Yeah, he's a shipper all right. He's been a shipper since the Dance.

Out of here for today, at last.

[jbrownsjr]

Originally Posted by strandinthewind

Come On. Do you think WB would have released this record is Stevie had not come on board? The same WB that poo poo's Lb's GOS material in the first place. Do you think LB could have sold out or come close to it the huge venues on the first leg of this tour. Based on his relative unknown status when compared to the FM name and more importantly Stevie Nicks name, the anser is no - LB could not have been this big time. Do I think Stevie took pity on LB and agreed to do this on that basis? No. I think that may have been part of it, but I think deep down SN and LB like being with each other - end of story for me at least.

Also, I am not saying LB needs to be big time rock and roll, I am just saying he seems to covet it for whatever reason.

Finally, Stevie has always harmonized on almost all of LB's stuff and harmonizes on SYW in many ways. So, I do not get your point.

This point you made, had me think a little on how much guts Christine had to release her own album. LB should have released GoScrews long ago and wrote differently for SYW. I agree with you, without Stevie Nicks, FM loses a lot of fans and a lot of sales and WB gets real nervous. Face it, without her there are no advances like 750k a concert coming from any record company or any promoter.

Personally, I like LB's solo stuff and would have loved to have another solo album. This is one of the first album's I have prefered more SN tunes than LB. And yes, I thought SN did a lot more harmonies on this album than any other.
Christine will soon find out if she can sell. And we will find out if she can still compose good songs. I would like to think both!

[face of glass]

Originally Posted by strandinthewind

Personally, I think they all wanted to hit one out of the ballpark and, sadly, that just did not happen even though SYW is really good.

I still think they didn't have any huge success because the three core songwriters aren't together anymore. That's the main reason anyway. for breaking promises.