Stevie's everywhere except in the studio.

[elle]

Originally Posted by BlueDenimLamp

If LB's not the problem then what is it? I don't see LB just playing guitar on Stevie's songs while someone else is responsible for the production/ final direction they take.

who or what else could be the problem? no idea.

i can see him do exactly that. he'd have to make a huge effort, but i can completely see him doing that, just to get the album out instead of sitting on it for the next 3-4 years and making up excuses at every show while they are doing GH tour yet again.

[Johnny Stew]

Originally Posted by elle

however much i agree with you that arguing over that is stupid, i have to say that since it's been brought up now it's actually a good time to reassess some of it. because the pricing and the speed with which these ridiculously expensive tickets are selling is showing us something we didn't quite know for sure before.

Having been a fan for the past 29 years, it's not showing me anything that I didn't already know -- "The Five" together will always be the top draw for ticket-buyers.

[elle]

Originally Posted by Johnny Stew

Stevie didn't want Mark Needham to mix the album. Lindsey did, and got his wish.

Stevie (per Lindsey's comments to the press) wanted the "heavier" songs to be sequenced later in the album. Lindsey wanted them up front. Lindsey got his wish.

Really, any reluctance Stevie has had to record with Fleetwood Mac since 'Say You Will,' is pretty justifiable when all things are considered. She got struck down on just about everything she fought for with that album. Her opinion was dismissed.

So, yeah, Lindsey's been championing a new album for quite a few years now -- and that's great. But looking at it from Stevie's perspective, who in their right mind would want to willingly put themselves through that kind of stress again?

Stevie is a strong woman. she's highly experienced in music industry. she's been producing stuff. people don't always agree on everything, that's normal, working on teams is a series of compromise situations. they can get the arguments out and solve any problems, all 5 together.

if i remember correctly Lord-Algae mixed at least several SN's songs on SYW (which ones were those?). if she wanted him to mix all of them, she shouldn't have given in on that. they are her songs. i don't understand why she did, if she felt so strongly about it.

sequencing is as crappy as can be on SYW, so she shouldn't have given up on that either.

Stevie has been saying she wanted to get Christine back in the band so she can get a support for her point of views (although i don't see Christine supporting anybody in particular, she seems to do what she thinks is right). she has that now. of course, you can't support your points of view if you are not there. i hope she's there.

Originally Posted by Johnny Stew

So, yeah, Lindsey's been championing a new album for quite a few years now -- and that's great. But looking at it from Stevie's perspective, who in their right mind would want to willingly put themselves through that kind of stress again?

well, if she does not want to record with FM and wants them to just be a nostalgia band then she should say so - and since she hasn't i assume she is still in the band full time, which means for recording too. she's been very adamant she doesn't want to leave FM. either she's in or out, she can't just come and go.

[michelej1]

Originally Posted by Johnny Stew

Stevie didn't want Mark Needham to mix the album. Lindsey did, and got his wish.

According to the documentary, that wasn't Lindsey getting his wish. They both listened to samples from the two engineers and Stevie agreed on Needham.

As for the way the album was sequenced, Lindsey said he was the only one working while they were in Hawaii. Could be if they (Stevie and Mick) had been in Los Angeles at the time, they could have got the sequencing they wanted.

As for the size of the album, the 18 song SYW was a compromise. Not as long as Lindsey wanted and not the regular album that Stevie wanted.

I don't buy the view that he trumped her on every count. It seems more like a compromise with both losing a little. But is she tired of making those compromises? Probably. If so, then just don't work with him any more. Go get someone else to produce her songs and then just hand them to FM. Take it or leave it. That would be preferable to hold outs on either side.

Michele

[michelej1]

Originally Posted by Johnny Stew

Having been a fan for the past 29 years, it's not showing me anything that I didn't already know -- "The Five" together will always be the top draw for ticket-buyers.

It's not showing me anything either and won't until the concerts actually start and we see how many unsold seats there were, how many sold out venues, etc.

This early ticket sale scramble doesn't mean much of anything.

Michele

[elle]

Originally Posted by michelej1

It's not showing me anything either and won't until the concerts actually start and we see how many unsold seats there were, how many sold out venues, etc.

This early ticket sale scramble doesn't mean much of anything.

Michele

bein in the arena won't show you much either. i've been to plenty of nominally "sold-out" shows where you couldn't buy any tickets through primary ticket outlets, but scalpers got tons of seats and obviously over-estimated the interest for the specific band, since in the end bunch of really good seats (that you could see on stubhub before the show) were empty.

[michelej1]

Originally Posted by elle

bein in the arena won't show you much either. i've been to plenty of nominally "sold-out" shows where you couldn't buy any tickets through primary ticket outlets, but scalpers got tons of seats and obviously over-estimated the interest for the specific band, since in the end bunch of really good seats (that you could see on stubhub before the show) were empty.

Yeah, I don't mean physically being in the arena and looking around. I mean looking at one of those charts that tell you how many tickets were sold and the venue capacity and you can see how many were unsold that way.

Michele

[BlueDenimLamp]

Originally Posted by Johnny Stew

Stevie didn't want 'Say You Will' to be a double-album. Lindsey did. Ultimately it was a double-length album, so Lindsey pretty much got his wish. (* It may not have been spread over two CDs, but it was longer than 'Tusk' by two minutes. And if it were released on vinyl, it most certainly would have been a double-album.)

Stevie didn't want Mark Needham to mix the album. Lindsey did, and got his wish.

Stevie (per Lindsey's comments to the press) wanted the "heavier" songs to be sequenced later in the album. Lindsey wanted them up front. Lindsey got his wish.

Really, any reluctance Stevie has had to record with Fleetwood Mac since 'Say You Will,' is pretty justifiable when all things are considered. She got struck down on just about everything she fought for with that album. Her opinion was dismissed.

So, yeah, Lindsey's been championing a new album for quite a few years now -- and that's great. But looking at it from Stevie's perspective, who in their right mind would want to willingly put themselves through that kind of stress again?

Well said...I think that's a fair assessment of the situation...

[elle]

Originally Posted by michelej1

Yeah, I don't mean physically being in the arena and looking around. I mean looking at one of those charts that tell you how many tickets were sold and the venue capacity and you can see how many were unsold that way.

Michele

oh, right. venue maps look almost completely sold out right now, for the shows i was checking. but they don't show platinums (although they do show resales, i'm still amazed by that ), and of course anything that will drop the last minute.

[michelej1]

Thinking of the sequencing, let me make my prediction now: new album will open with a Christine song.

Although, traditionally, the first single would be hers too, I get the feeling that this time around that won't happen. And the first single will be from someone else.

I was wondering about merchandising too. You know how they sell t-shirts with one song from Stevie and one from Lindsey? I guess Christine will have to have her own t-shirt now too. It will probably say Don't Stop, which is a pity, really.


Michele

[Johnny Stew]

Originally Posted by elle

Stevie is a strong woman. she's highly experienced in music industry. she's been producing stuff. people don't always agree on everything, that's normal, working on teams is a series of compromise situations. they can get the arguments out and solve any problems, all 5 together.

Which probably makes it all the more frustrating when her opinions aren't regarded. She does have experience. She does have good ideas.
But what's she going to do if they're ignored? Lindsey threatened Mick in the 'Destiny Rules' documentary, that if the band didn't go ahead with the double-album idea, he might take some of his songs back. Maybe Stevie should have threatened the same. That would have put the fear of God in them.

Originally Posted by elle

if i remember correctly Lord-Algae mixed at least several SN's songs on SYW (which ones were those?). if she wanted him to mix all of them, she shouldn't have given in on that. they are her songs. i don't understand why she did, if she felt so strongly about it.

Chris Lord-Alge mixed only one song on the album -- "Destiny Rules." He did, however, remix "Say You Will" for its single release.

If I recall, there was some fight between Lindsey & Stevie, involving money and the mixing process (again, as seen in 'Destiny Rules'). Something about Lindsey dragging his feet and not signing off on test mixes with Chris Lord-Alge because he still wanted Mark Needham, and there being a "lost day" that someone was going to have to pay for.

Again, if I'm remembering right, the dragging of feet ultimately resulted in Chris Lord-Alge booking other work and Lindsey getting his wish.

Originally Posted by elle

sequencing is as crappy as can be on SYW, so she shouldn't have given up on that either.

Have you ever gotten so worn down by someone's vehement insistence on something, that you ultimately give up out of mental fatigue or because you no longer wish to fight? I can see Stevie giving in just to be able to move on.

Originally Posted by elle

Stevie has been saying she wanted to get Christine back in the band so she can get a support for her point of views (although i don't see Christine supporting anybody in particular, she seems to do what she thinks is right). she has that now. of course, you can't support your points of view if you are not there. i hope she's there.

I believe Stevie meant every word of that, and still does. And I believe she'll be there to support her views when she feels it's time to do that. I know I'm repeating myself, but if Christine and Lindsey are still just trying to fashion Chris' rough demos into workable songs, then this entire thing is still in too early of a stage for Stevie to offer anything of real value. So why should she just sit around the studio, doodling in her sketchbook?

[michelej1]

Originally Posted by Johnny Stew

Which probably makes it all the more frustrating when her opinions aren't regarded. She does have experience. She does have good ideas.
But what's she going to do if they're ignored? Lindsey threatened Mick in the 'Destiny Rules' documentary, that if the band didn't go ahead with the double-album idea, he might take some of his songs back. Maybe Stevie should have threatened the same. That would have put the fear of God in them.

Stevie did threaten. She threatened to only do a short tour. Lindsey realized he couldn't make any money if they only did a few tour dates and she used that leverage against him to get concessions.

Originally Posted by Johnny Stew

If I recall, there was some fight between Lindsey & Stevie, involving money and the mixing process (again, as seen in 'Destiny Rules'). Something about Lindsey dragging his feet and not signing off on test mixes with Chris Lord-Alge because he still wanted Mark Needham, and there being a "lost day" that someone was going to have to pay for.

It cost money to mix the extra song, which is what Lindsey was teasing John about in the kitchen, but it didn't have anything to do with him having slowed down the project. That's not where the extra cost was incurred.

Also, Karen did accuse Lindsey of not signing the contract, but Lindsey got on the phone with Tony and denied doing that. He said he didn't have the authority to sign.

Yes, you can make everything in the documentary and make it look one-sided, but every good Rashomon has a neutral perspective that tells the truth as well and I think Destiny Rules showed two sides of the story.

As far as Stevie having nothing to do at this point, in the end maybe her absence right now won't have hurt anything at all. But I think people are not asking about damage at this stage. They are wondering why she's not recording. I don't think the answer to that is, "Well, they don't need her right now." That's not why she's not there. Although, certainly that may be all that matters in the end.

Michele

[elle]

Originally Posted by Johnny Stew

So why should she just sit around the studio, doodling in her sketchbook?

because she said she has something to give, and wants to have an input. she should be well beyond doodling now, after 40 years in the business. she can add harmonies. provide ideas. and maybe get ideas what kind of her songs would fit in. and you all keep saying the same, she can and should have an input but then you turn around and say, nah she actually has completely nothing to give to this band other than her rough demos, she has no interest in others' songs. i really don't get that logic.

with SYW, my recollection from DR doc is that Stevie gave up on Lord-Algae because he didn't have enough time, and if he was involved that would delay a process.

i can understand being worn down from the argument, but if it's about something that is supposedly the most important thing in the world to me (her songs are her children, right?), i would not give up, say it's all ok and i am going with whatever you want because i care about you ("we all love Lindsey and want him to be happy so we'll go with what he wants" was in DR i believe), and then complain about it for the next 10 years. as you said, you pull out your cards and dig in, if that's so important to you. she can easily do it. and for all we know that may be exactly what she's doing now - "hey, you don't want to do what i want, i'm gonna strut around the world and try to show you how important i am till you all give in".

[BlueDenimLamp]

Originally Posted by michelej1

But is she tired of making those compromises? Probably. If so, then just don't work with him any more. Go get someone else to produce her songs and then just hand them to FM. Take it or leave it. That would be preferable to hold outs on either side.

Michele

I hope they film the part where Stevie rents her own studio and brings the band in to record her songs with a producer of her own choosing...If Stevie is that dead set against recording then maybe the band should stop trying to pressure her into it because if she is forced into recording and is miserable during the whole process how good will the finished product be???

[michelej1]

Originally Posted by elle

with SYW, my recollection from DR doc is that Stevie gave up on Lord-Algae because he didn't have enough time, and if he was involved that would delay a process.

Yes, it had nothing to do with Lindsey not signing the contracts having cost them more money.

Michele