SYW, best album of all time?

[AliceLover]

Originally Posted by chriskisn

I'm certainly one of those who didn't like SYW on first listen. I put it in the CD player and went "what the hell is this?".

By the time I had bought SYW I owned every FM studio album plus all the solo works by Stevie, Lindsey, Christine and a couple of albums by Peter Green, Bob Welch and Dave Mason. SYW wasn't like any of those albums that came before it, I wasn't a big Lindsey fan, and while I generally liked the Stevie songs the Lindsey songs took me by complete surprise.

It took a few listens for the album to grow on me, and a few more years for my music taste to grow and change to really appreciate the Lindsey songs on this album.

I admit there are some albums that you love the moment you hear them, that you constantly played on repeat from the very minute you took it out of the cd case. SYW wasn't one of those, but it certainly isn't "subpar".

Oh and finally, in my opinion, Love Minus Zero/No Limit is the worst of the four Dylan covers done by Fleetwood Mac members/ex members (and Just Like A Woman wasn't a very good attempt by Stevie).

I thought that was a Warren Zevon cover? I really love Lindsey's guitar playing and vocals on this one myself!

[Bandon]

Originally Posted by chiliD

I just continually fail to understand how ANYBODY can prefer subpar "demo" versions of "Smile At You" ("angry" or whatever...they all are poorly recorded and the performances are worse than "amateur") over the obviously mega-superior version on SYW. Without McVie's bass line that is on the final SYW version, that song fails on SO MANY levels.

It was just a demo so I don't think most people expected an exact duplication....just something with a little emotion that did not sound like it was created using a computer generated loop. That being said, the mixed critical reviews (including many fans on this site) and lackluster sales figures for SYW speak for themselves. Even Stevie was disappointed with SYW and mandates a different producer for any future albums. Oh, getting dropped from the record company after the CD is also an interesting barometer of how well the work was received.

[David]

Originally Posted by Bandon

It was just a demo so I don't think most people expected an exact duplication.

I don't know whether those things are demos. I think they were tracking in the studio. It rawked! Steve's wrong--the band plays it fabulously. There's great power in Mick's drumming, Christine's piano is decent, John is playing good bass, & Lindsey's electric is jagged & puts the Z's in Zorro!

just something with a little emotion that did not sound like it was created using a computer generated loop.

That's a good way to describe it. It makes me restless. I keep wanting something to happen, but nothing ever does. It reminds me of "Doing the Best That I Can." Plus, the lead vocal is a real turnoff. What happened to this woman? She used to be such a cool singer.

That being said, the mixed critical reviews (including many fans on this site) and lackluster sales figures for SYW speak for themselves.

Lackluster sales figures only speak for lack of public interest, not for the work itself. How many people went to see the Taviani Brothers' great "La Notte di San Lorenzo"? How many people ordered a subscription to Beethoven's incomparable Great Fugue? How many camels are there in Araby? How many times must the white dove sail?

[michelej1]

Yes, Lindsey always cites the Kingston Trio as one of his musical inspirations. So, it was very touching that John eventually became a fan of Lindsey's as well. Mutual admiration, full circle.

Originally Posted by chriskisn

Well he wrote Daydream Believer if that helps.

But Neil Diamond wrote "I'm a Believer" and so I'm going to give him the Monkees' edge, if you don't mind.


Michele

[caroline79]

Originally Posted by McTrouble

I think it's because I saw the Live In Boston show before I bought the SYW CD. I immediately adored all the SYW songs done live so it was a foregone conclusion that I was gonna love the CD!

I have yet to see Live in Boston! I need to!

Originally Posted by McTrouble

And isn't it fantastic that every album is totally different!

Too many bands churn out records that all sound the same - Fleetwood Mac has never done that, thank goodness!

And even though each album is different they still retain the FM magic every time!

I can see we agree on so many things

Originally Posted by Bandon

That being said, the mixed critical reviews (including many fans on this site) and lackluster sales figures for SYW speak for themselves.

Couldn't the same thing almost be said about Tusk? Maybe 20 years from now people will consider Say You Will a masterpiece

[chriskisn]

Originally Posted by AliceLover

I thought that was a Warren Zevon cover?

[David]

Originally Posted by caroline79

Couldn't the same thing almost be said about Tusk? Maybe 20 years from now people will consider Say You Will a masterpiece

Critical opinion from the press on Tusk was demonstrably more widely positive than that for Say You Will. Don't you remember the judgments from the L.A. Times, the Philadelphia Enquirer, Rolling Stone, Stereo Review, the New York Times? I think the critics got it right.

This idea that Tusk became a masterpiece only in very recent years is bunk. It wasn't a masterpiece in 1979, & it isn't a masterpiece now. But the press in 1979 considered it weird, wacky, & wondrous.

If Tusk's stature has risen recently, it's only among listeners & maybe musicians.

[caroline79]

Originally Posted by David

Critical opinion from the press on Tusk was demonstrably more widely positive than that for Say You Will. Don't you remember the judgments from the L.A. Times, the Philadelphia Enquirer, Rolling Stone, Stereo Review, the New York Times? I think the critics got it right.

This idea that Tusk became a masterpiece only in very recent years is bunk. It wasn't a masterpiece in 1979, & it isn't a masterpiece now. But the press in 1979 considered it weird, wacky, & wondrous.

If Tusk's stature has risen recently, it's only among listeners & maybe musicians.

Who else is there? That's why I said almost and it was more of a joke. I wasn't alive when Tusk came out and 12 when SYW came out so I honestly have no clue what the critics said. I'm not going to say Tusk is not a masterpiece, because it is to some people. The only point that I was trying to make is that just because "the critics" don't think something is good doesn't mean it isn't.
My dad was a huge FM fan growing up and told me he didn't like Tusk upon it's release, yet he listened to it recently and had a change of opinion. So people's taste in music really can change not just because something has "grown on them."

I guess a lot of us will just have to agree to disagree on this one!

[Villavic]

Say You Will was the first Fleetwood Mac studio album to peak in the top 3 in the US since 1982's Mirage.

Weird. Tango in the Night reached just N.7. And in spite of a great expectation for a new Mac studio album after The Dance (that reached N.1), I thought the Fleetwood Mac momentum was greater in 1987 for a comeback after 5 years, than in 2003 where the music industry was far different(complicated) than in the 80s, and the massive customers are younger and probably look for more popular bands and singers.

[jbrownsjr]

Originally Posted by Villavic

Say You Will was the first Fleetwood Mac studio album to peak in the top 3 in the US since 1982's Mirage.

Weird. Tango in the Night reached just N.7. And in spite of a great expectation for a new Mac studio album after The Dance (that reached N.1), I thought the Fleetwood Mac momentum was greater in 1987 for a comeback after 5 years, than in 2003 where the music industry was far different(complicated) than in the 80s, and the massive customers are younger and probably look for more popular bands and singers.

Didn't Tango sell about 7 million internationally?

[McTrouble]

Originally Posted by caroline79

I have yet to see Live in Boston! I need to!


I can see we agree on so many things



Couldn't the same thing almost be said about Tusk? Maybe 20 years from now people will consider Say You Will a masterpiece

Oh you really really need to see it - I have to get my Boston fix often. You will LOVE it, Lindsey is just mega superb and mega hot. I urge you to invest in it very soon!

I've been thinking we agree on plenty - especially on the gorgeousness of LB

I wish he knew about everyone on here who thinks he's super hot!

[chiliD]

Originally Posted by David

I don't know whether those things are demos. I think they were tracking in the studio. It rawked! Steve's wrong--the band plays it fabulously. There's great power in Mick's drumming, Christine's piano is decent, John is playing good bass, & Lindsey's electric is jagged & puts the Z's in Zorro!

"Fabulously"??? REALLY?? That just makes me question your own standards of musicianship, there, David. I would be embarrassed to even be in the same room with them if I was in the band & they played the way they do on those "demo"/"outtake"/"whatever" versions of "Smile At You". I've heard garage bands of 15 year olds who play with more energy & aptitude than Fleetwood Mac does on those versions.

On the finished SYW version, everything finally comes together and adds punch & intensity.

[seekerj]

Originally Posted by chiliD

I just continually fail to understand how ANYBODY can prefer subpar "demo" versions of "Smile At You" ("angry" or whatever...they all are poorly recorded and the performances are worse than "amateur") over the obviously mega-superior version on SYW. Without McVie's bass line that is on the final SYW version, that song fails on SO MANY levels.

It's very simple. Not EVERYBODY judges by the same things. We all have different things that are important to us. Some people (like me) aren't looking at the technical expertise of the musicianship. It's very obvious that in this situation, those who like the demo versions are picking up on something else. For me, it's the emotion that comes across from the song as a whole. I'm never going to care about the music any further than how well it backs up the message in the words. It's really that simple. We're not all musicians, but we can all relate in general to words and the delivery of them.

[HomerMcvie]

Originally Posted by seekerj

It's very simple. Not EVERYBODY judges by the same things. We all have different things that are important to us. Some people (like me) aren't looking at the technical expertise of the musicianship. It's very obvious that in this situation, those who like the demo versions are picking up on something else. For me, it's the emotion that comes across from the song as a whole. I'm never going to care about the music any further than how well it backs up the message in the words. It's really that simple. We're not all musicians, but we can all relate in general to words and the delivery of them.

I agree, to a point. Like I'm not a very lyrics loving guy. Honestly, unless they're really bad, IT'S THE MUSIC that interests me.
Here are my top ten FM songs....and they're all on the list, because of the VIBE of the music(lyrics be damned!)
Hold Me
YMLF
Gypsy
GYOW
Think About Me
What Makes You Think You're The One
As Long As You Follow
Love Shines
Sister Of The Moon
Sugar Daddy!!!
#11Rhiannon(Great riff- but not included only because I'm sick to death of it)

[jbrownsjr]

Originally Posted by seekerj

It's very simple. Not EVERYBODY judges by the same things. We all have different things that are important to us. Some people (like me) aren't looking at the technical expertise of the musicianship. It's very obvious that in this situation, those who like the demo versions are picking up on something else. For me, it's the emotion that comes across from the song as a whole. I'm never going to care about the music any further than how well it backs up the message in the words. It's really that simple. We're not all musicians, but we can all relate in general to words and the delivery of them.

Agreed, I like anything that moves me or is interesting. Sometimes the simplest things are beautiful to me. And I say that as a musician.