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  #1  
Old 04-15-2018, 08:00 PM
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elle elle is offline
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Question deleting or closing threads about LB firing

i have to wonder - Billy's tweets and posts when he fiorst leaked were quickly pulled down.

now one after the other, threads on the firing are being pulled down and closed in Steve Hoffman forum. http://forums.stevehoffman.tv/thread...#post-18507283

what is going on? who is so bothered by the truth coming out? we know our macsters are not nearly as savvy.
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  #2  
Old 04-15-2018, 08:10 PM
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i have to wonder - Billy's tweets and posts when he fiorst leaked were quickly pulled down.

now one after the other, threads on the firing are being pulled down and closed in Steve Hoffman forum. http://forums.stevehoffman.tv/thread...#post-18507283

what is going on? who is so bothered by the truth coming out? we know our macsters are not nearly as savvy.
Th original thread "LB leaves FM confirmed by Variety" is there but stops on page 59. The last entry says "closed for repairs for awhile. This thread has turned into the National Enquirer of the week".
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Old 04-15-2018, 08:14 PM
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Th original thread "LB leaves FM confirmed by Variety" is there but stops on page 59. The last entry says "closed for repairs for awhile. This thread has turned into the National Enquirer of the week".
yup. and it's been like that for days now. what needs repairing in that thread? lol.

and the other thread that got started for people to discuss this since the other one remains closed, got shut down almost immediately. this time they didn't even try to make up some explanation. just said "Nope. Closed."
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Old 04-15-2018, 08:14 PM
Storms123 Storms123 is offline
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Perhaps they are just closing them because nothing more has been forthcoming, save for that disastrous and insulting press release earlier last week. Everything being said now is speculation and innuendo with nothing really new/confirmed materializing. I would assume once they announce dates, we'll hear from the band. That should be interesting. LOL.
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Old 04-15-2018, 08:18 PM
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yup. and it's been like that for days now. what needs repairing in that thread? lol.

and the other thread that got started for people to discuss this since the other one remains closed, got shut down almost immediately. this time they didn't even try to make up some explanation. just said "Nope. Closed."
I didn't see that. I see one titled "What's really behind FM firing LB" at 2 pages in length.

Elle would you please tell me where your video with the music industry rant is located? I saw it earlier today but can't find it now. Thank you
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Old 04-15-2018, 08:30 PM
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I didn't see that. I see one titled "What's really behind FM firing LB" at 2 pages in length.

Elle would you please tell me where your video with the music industry rant is located? I saw it earlier today but can't find it now. Thank you
Nevermind--I found it!
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Old 04-15-2018, 08:33 PM
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I didn't see that. I see one titled "What's really behind FM firing LB" at 2 pages in length.

Elle would you please tell me where your video with the music industry rant is located? I saw it earlier today but can't find it now. Thank you
not my video. i just found it on twitter. should be linked in the first post of that 2-page thread.

yup, here it is - https://www.youtube.com/embed/-B87yPmRy1s


they let other threads go on ranting forever. there's no good reason to close these 2 threads. this is huge news. yet somehow they are closed. i think that's really weird. almost like they were contacted, as a known and respected board, and told not to allow any discussion on this. makes no sense, at all.
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Old 04-15-2018, 09:21 PM
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not my video. i just found it on twitter. should be linked in the first post of that 2-page thread.

yup, here it is - https://www.youtube.com/embed/-B87yPmRy1s


they let other threads go on ranting forever. there's no good reason to close these 2 threads. this is huge news. yet somehow they are closed. i think that's really weird. almost like they were contacted, as a known and respected board, and told not to allow any discussion on this. makes no sense, at all.
I wouldn't be surprised if they were told to close threads. When fans get no real info and a listening penquin pic what do they expect! Page after page of discussion. Thanks for posting the video again--just watched with my guy who is in sales. He agrees with this post (you and Jamie discussing):


re Classic East, that whole narrative actually fits nicely into Azoff / corporate greed conspiracy theory - LB was undermining the Classic gigs put together by Azoff with his public statements that he's at this point just accepting Mac gigs for what they are - cashgrabs - and going through the motions ("just close your eyes, play the set, and take the money"). that couldn't have sit well with Azoff.

so it's not that Lindsey is not giving it well over 100% at the Mac gigs. it's that he didn't shy away from saying they are basically uninspired cashgrabs. so you could see Azoff wanting to 1) get him in line or get rid of him, and 2) making sure that FM doesn't do yet another exact same GH tour as the last 3 ones. yes the 2014-15 one was their most successful ever probably, but there was no new narrative for the upcoming tour (like rumours 5 re-united!). having LB solo with new music and creativity going in parallel would further undermine yet another GH tour, in the year when every boomer band is doing hugely expensive farewell tours. there needed to be either a shakeup or get LB in line! so pair this with SN and LB always fighting, and SN probably always pulling similar him or me threats, and now you do have a perfect storm! so maybe, Jamie and this youtube vinyl guy are right about it all being pure corporate greed, business based decision?
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Old 04-15-2018, 09:51 PM
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Re Classic East, that whole narrative actually fits nicely into Azoff / corporate greed conspiracy theory - LB was undermining the Classic gigs put together by Azoff with his public statements that he's at this point just accepting Mac gigs for what they are - cashgrabs - and going through the motions ("just close your eyes, play the set, and take the money"). that couldn't have sit well with Azoff.

so it's not that Lindsey is not giving it well over 100% at the Mac gigs. it's that he didn't shy away from saying they are basically uninspired cashgrabs. so you could see Azoff wanting to 1) get him in line or get rid of him, and 2) making sure that FM doesn't do yet another exact same GH tour as the last 3 ones. yes the 2014-15 one was their most successful ever probably, but there was no new narrative for the upcoming tour (like rumours 5 re-united!). having LB solo with new music and creativity going in parallel would further undermine yet another GH tour, in the year when every boomer band is doing hugely expensive farewell tours. there needed to be either a shakeup or get LB in line! so pair this with SN and LB always fighting, and SN probably always pulling similar him or me threats, and now you do have a perfect storm! so maybe, Jamie and this youtube vinyl guy are right about it all being pure corporate greed, business based decision?
People keep bringing up that comment he made about the Classics as if it were typical, but it was a one-time thing done only at Christine's prodding; indeed, he was reluctant to say it! Lindsey hardly went around undermining the Classics at every opportunity and I daresay he did not intend to go around trashing the Mac at every opportunity while they toured either. When has it ever been his practice to complain about the band publicly? That's more Stevie's thing, honestly. Meanwhile, Lindsey sings "I will stand with my band."

While his ONE comment about the Classic may have annoyed Azoff, in the end, what Azoff cares about is making money, and I am confident that Lindsey's comment deterred absolutely ZERO people from going to that show. As long as keeping LB on board was profitable, Azoff would not work behind the scenes to get him fired.

As for not wanting FM to do another GH tour... why wouldn't he? That's what the casual fan wants! Do you really think the casual fan is more interested in hearing FM dig out "Station Man" because they're sick of "The Chain"? "Oh, I heard all the hits in 2014. I'm not interested in hearing them play my favorites anymore!" (Not to mention not everyone saw that tour.) You have "Oh Well" and "Black Magic Woman" and you've exhausted the pre-BN stuff the casual fan knows. No, the casual fan wants a song they can sing along to, one that reminds them of their youth, not a little-known track from an iteration of the band they probably don't give a hoot about.

Again, I don't buy that Azoff thought a tour without Lindsey would be more appealing to casual fans. Casual fans don't want a "shakeup." They want their Rumours 5.

Would a concurrent LB solo tour have undermined FM's tour? Well, I suppose that's possible, but the point is moot if he backed down from that request.

This guy in the video's theory is that Lindsey wanted too much money and that's why this "conspiracy" took place to replace him with cheaper sidemen. However, wasn't Azoff Lindsey's manager? It's his job to get Lindsey as much money as possible! He's probably the one that negotiated Lindsey's cut!

The more I think about it, the less this is holding together for me. I think I need more to go on before I buy into this conspiracy theory.
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  #10  
Old 04-15-2018, 11:33 PM
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People keep bringing up that comment he made about the Classics as if it were typical, but it was a one-time thing done only at Christine's prodding; indeed, he was reluctant to say it! Lindsey hardly went around undermining the Classics at every opportunity and I daresay he did not intend to go around trashing the Mac at every opportunity while they toured either. When has it ever been his practice to complain about the band publicly? That's more Stevie's thing, honestly. Meanwhile, Lindsey sings "I will stand with my band."

While his ONE comment about the Classic may have annoyed Azoff, in the end, what Azoff cares about is making money, and I am confident that Lindsey's comment deterred absolutely ZERO people from going to that show. As long as keeping LB on board was profitable, Azoff would not work behind the scenes to get him fired.

As for not wanting FM to do another GH tour... why wouldn't he? That's what the casual fan wants! Do you really think the casual fan is more interested in hearing FM dig out "Station Man" because they're sick of "The Chain"? "Oh, I heard all the hits in 2014. I'm not interested in hearing them play my favorites anymore!" (Not to mention not everyone saw that tour.) You have "Oh Well" and "Black Magic Woman" and you've exhausted the pre-BN stuff the casual fan knows. No, the casual fan wants a song they can sing along to, one that reminds them of their youth, not a little-known track from an iteration of the band they probably don't give a hoot about.

Again, I don't buy that Azoff thought a tour without Lindsey would be more appealing to casual fans. Casual fans don't want a "shakeup." They want their Rumours 5.

Would a concurrent LB solo tour have undermined FM's tour? Well, I suppose that's possible, but the point is moot if he backed down from that request.

This guy in the video's theory is that Lindsey wanted too much money and that's why this "conspiracy" took place to replace him with cheaper sidemen. However, wasn't Azoff Lindsey's manager? It's his job to get Lindsey as much money as possible! He's probably the one that negotiated Lindsey's cut!

The more I think about it, the less this is holding together for me. I think I need more to go on before I buy into this conspiracy theory.
Donít kid yourself, it mattered. I knew he was in trouble when I heard him say that and subsequently put on subpar (for him) shows, which were mentioned on here and in some reviews.

I donít disagree that whatever Lindsey said had any influence on anyoneís decision as to whether or not to go to those shows. That said, if Iím putting up big money for a big show and talent is doing something that could be remotely construed as talking down that show, I would certainly have an issue. Apparently Azoff had an issue. Apparently Fleetwood Mac had an issue.

Doing a solo tour in the midst of a Fleetwood Mac tour was never going to fly. You canít have a situation where everyone else is focused almost exclusively on the big tour, except for one guy, who is also touring with the backing musicians and focusing on his new album. It might have been different if he had limited his promotion to TV appearances and a few one-offs, but not a whole mini-tour within a tour. That wouldnít fly in almost any band.

Donít let your loyalty to Lindsey lead to naivety about the actual business side of the music business. I suspect beyond the various personalities that we know and love that there were numerous factors, probably business related, that lead to the split. By the time of whatever blowout there was, everyone was likely worn down by all of the external pressures that follow the band.
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  #11  
Old 04-16-2018, 05:35 AM
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Don’t kid yourself, it mattered. I knew he was in trouble when I heard him say that and subsequently put on subpar (for him) shows, which were mentioned on here and in some reviews.
Do you really think Lindsey deliberately put on a "subpar" show? Just because some reviewers were unimpressed (which I believe is actually not uncommmon) doesn't mean Lindsey was attempting to sabotage the show. Also, he was not the only one criticized, nor even the one most harshly criticized by many. Finally, they weren't even universally bad.

I honestly was surprised to hear so many people here talking about how everyone was trashing their performance because the review I read was actually quite complimentary. In fact, it praises Lindsey highly... ironic to read it now when it praises them for staying together. Anyway, I'd like to see a review that calls his performance "subpar (for him)" because I don't remember any.

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I don’t disagree that whatever Lindsey said had any influence on anyone’s decision as to whether or not to go to those shows. That said, if I’m putting up big money for a big show and talent is doing something that could be remotely construed as talking down that show, I would certainly have an issue. Apparently Azoff had an issue. Apparently Fleetwood Mac had an issue.
Your "apparently [they] had an issue" is based entirely upon your premise that this comment led directly to his firing, but I think that premise is what's truly naive: the premise that a shrewd businessman would ignore the profit potential of one of the few intact legacy acts to exact a punishment for a throwaway comment.

I don't think anybody has ever accused Azoff of leaving money on the table for any reason.

The only way this theory works is if Lindsey was costing them so much money that it would be more profitable to tour with two other lesser known guys (in America, it's Neil Who?), despite the loss of revenue that would occur from no longer having the Rumours 5. Since he backed down from the request that arguably could have cost them money, this theory is problematic.
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Last edited by sodascouts : 04-16-2018 at 05:37 AM.
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Old 04-16-2018, 07:27 AM
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Do you really think Lindsey deliberately put on a "subpar" show? Just because some reviewers were unimpressed (which I believe is actually not uncommmon) doesn't mean Lindsey was attempting to sabotage the show. Also, he was not the only one criticized, nor even the one most harshly criticized by many. Finally, they weren't even universally bad.

From what I recall all of them came off quite badly at the Classic shows. Not really bad...just so-so overall.
I think the problem is they find it difficult to play one-off events these days. They are so used to doing set routines aimed specifically at Fleetwood Mac fans. When they have to play festivals, corporate gigs etc its a bit alien to them as they are no longer playing to the converted masses.

As has been said, even when Lindsey isn't that interested he still works his butt off.
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Old 04-16-2018, 08:18 AM
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I certainly haven't moved or deleted anything.
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Old 04-16-2018, 11:46 AM
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Donít kid yourself, it mattered. I knew he was in trouble when I heard him say that and subsequently put on subpar (for him) shows, which were mentioned on here and in some reviews.

I donít disagree that whatever Lindsey said had any influence on anyoneís decision as to whether or not to go to those shows. That said, if Iím putting up big money for a big show and talent is doing something that could be remotely construed as talking down that show, I would certainly have an issue. Apparently Azoff had an issue. Apparently Fleetwood Mac had an issue.
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Old 04-16-2018, 05:46 PM
MaryLiz2 MaryLiz2 is offline
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Rule #1: Don't f=ck with Irving.
How did Henley describe him? "He's Satan. But he's our Satan."

Don't eff with Irving seems like a good plan.
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