I Know I'm Not Wrong CD mix?

[UndoingTheLaces]

Does anyone know why the version of I Know I'm Not Wrong is different on the Tusk Cd than it was on the album. And is there any story regarding the peculiar way it was remixed?

[Etisl]

You know I love this song....but, didn't realize it was a different mix. Fleetwood Mac has done that a few times....I don't know why. Straight Back is different on CD that the album, Gold Dust Woman has been released with 2-3 different CD versions, the first time Rumours was on CD "Gold Dust" actually didn't have the fade in...intro.

[drzubritsky]

As far as I know, there has never been a public statement on why IKINW used a different mix on CD. When I bought the old (original) CD, I thought maybe they just pulled the wrong tape, since they also substituted the 45 edit of "Sara" for the original album version. I assumed that when they issued the deluxe remaster of Tusk that they would correct IKINW and use the original mix, but that wasn't the case. When the deluxe edition was done that way, I could only surmise that the band or Lindsey preferred the alternate mix since they seem to keep a pretty tight rein on their releases.

For those looking for the correct mix of IKINW in digital form, it's on the HDTracks download version of Tusk.

[HomerMcvie]

Originally Posted by Etisl

You know I love this song....but, didn't realize it was a different mix. Fleetwood Mac has done that a few times....I don't know why. Straight Back is different on CD that the album, Gold Dust Woman has been released with 2-3 different CD versions, the first time Rumours was on CD "Gold Dust" actually didn't have the fade in...intro.

I'm dating myself, but I had the original cassette version of Straight Back, and there was NO guitar solo at the end....it wasn't until years later, that I got the CD, and was like, "wtf?".

WHY would they put out different versions, on different format? Maybe Ken knows....?


~my only thought would be, that they were maybe trying to make some release deadline, and finished adding a few overdubs, for later releases...~???

[KarmaContestant]

I think it all boils down to lazy quality control, with the exception of Sara which seems intentional (since it was labeled as an edit on the original CD release).

[bombaysaffires]

Originally Posted by HomerMcvie

I'm dating myself, but I had the original cassette version of Straight Back, and there was NO guitar solo at the end....it wasn't until years later, that I got the CD, and was like, "wtf?".

WHY would they put out different versions, on different format? Maybe Ken knows....?

my (original) LP version does not have one whole layer of Stevie's background vocals ("hours and hours of waiting for you"). I never heard it til I got the cd version years later .....

[seekerj]

Originally Posted by HomerMcvie

I'm dating myself, but I had the original cassette version of Straight Back, and there was NO guitar solo at the end....it wasn't until years later, that I got the CD, and was like, "wtf?".

WHY would they put out different versions, on different format? Maybe Ken knows....?


~my only thought would be, that they were maybe trying to make some release deadline, and finished adding a few overdubs, for later releases...~???

That's interesting. For me, it was the album (which I bought the day it came out) that did not have the guitar solo, but my cassette (which I bought about two years later) had the guitar solo and the extra background vocals.

[mediumbluemetal]

Originally Posted by drzubritsky

As far as I know, there has never been a public statement on why IKINW used a different mix on CD. When I bought the old (original) CD, I thought maybe they just pulled the wrong tape, since they also substituted the 45 edit of "Sara" for the original album version. I assumed that when they issued the deluxe remaster of Tusk that they would correct IKINW and use the original mix, but that wasn't the case. When the deluxe edition was done that way, I could only surmise that the band or Lindsey preferred the alternate mix since they seem to keep a pretty tight rein on their releases.

For those looking for the correct mix of IKINW in digital form, it's on the HDTracks download version of Tusk.

As far as I know, the "Sara" 45 edit was used on original CD pressings due to technical limitations of the early compact disc; Tusk was a long album, and truncating Sara allowed the album to be issued on a single CD. When the CD mastering process evolved, Tusk was never re-mastered to include the full version of "Sara" until the 2000s deluxe reissue.

Now, on to "I Know I'm Not Wrong" and the issue of the different LP vs CD "mix" of the song. It's been several years since this thread was last added to, and since then, Tusk has be reissued on LP and also reissued on CD with a disc of bonus outtakes. This has allowed me to make several observations about IKINW. There is still (and may never be) any official reason for the different mixes, but here's my take:

The original LP IKINW mix was the result of a mastering error; it was not a certain "mix," and it was not how Fleetwood Mac intended for the song to sound. Several pieces of proof exist...

1) If you have an original Tusk LP, you can actually "see" a difference in the appearance of the grooves at the IKINW track. They stand out as different from all of the other tracks on the record, and I believe that the grooves look so strange because the left and right channels are exactly the same, whereas the other tracks all have stereo channels. This leads me to my second point:

2) No other song on the Tusk LP lacks stereo effect. IKINW is the only song on the entire album with no stereo effects at all. Both channels play the same sound from the beginning to the end of the song, but only if you're listening to Tusk on the original vinyl release.

3) As others have stated, playing any CD version of IKINW while turning the balance control to only the left channel produces the exact same mono "LP Mix" that people have claimed is the original mix of IKINW; however, playing the CD version on an even balance introduces the stereo effects that are oddly missing from the entire LP version of the song.

4) Tusk was reissued on vinyl in 2012 and is still available new as such. Warner Bros. went to great lengths to preserve the original album as much as possible. The LP reissue even includes the double inner decorative picture sleeves that were used in the original release. The IKINW track, however, includes the stereo "CD mix", not the mono "LP mix." What's more, the IKINW track no longer visually stands out on the LP as having strange groove reflections. As much effort as WB put into making this reissue look authentic, I have to imagine that they used the version of IKINW that Fleetwood Mac intended--the version that included stereo effects like the rest of the album.

5) The last piece of evidence can be found on the special edition Tusk CD reissue from 2013. The second disc contains outtakes and demos of various Tusk songs. There are several IKINW outtakes on the second disc, and most of these pre-release versions of the song contain elements of the stereo "CD mix" and none of the pre-release versions sound specifically like the mono "LP mix."

So yeah... that's my long-winded explanation. There's no official word (which I think is odd since even the Wikipedia page notes something about the "LP mix" in the track listing), but from everything that I can tell, it appears that the original LP version of the song was released in error. The only real question is when did FM and WB realize that the error existed, and how many copies were affected? It's possible that only certain presses contained the flaw, or it's possible that all LP's contained the flaw. It's possible that the error was fixed early on, or it's possible that it was never fixed until the 2012 vinyl reissue. I'd love to know the answer to some of those questions. I do own a NOS copy of Tusk that's still sealed, but I'd hate to open it just to see if it also contains the flaw. It's also unclear if the original cassette releases were affected or not.

I think people prefer whichever version of IKINW that they were first introduced to. Those who first heard it on vinyl LP think that the correct stereo version sounds superfluous. Those who heard the song first on CD think that the erroneous mono version sounds flat. Either way it's a good song. I'd like to see a statement from WB or FM addressing the truth of the matter just for my own curiosity.

[vivfox]

^^^
mediumbluemetal, this is the most amazing Ledgie debut post I have ever read. Welcome!

[drzubritsky]

Originally Posted by mediumbluemetal

As far as I know, the "Sara" 45 edit was used on original CD pressings due to technical limitations of the early compact disc; Tusk was a long album, and truncating Sara allowed the album to be issued on a single CD. When the CD mastering process evolved, Tusk was never re-mastered to include the full version of "Sara" until the 2000s deluxe reissue.

Now, on to "I Know I'm Not Wrong" and the issue of the different LP vs CD "mix" of the song. It's been several years since this thread was last added to, and since then, Tusk has be reissued on LP and also reissued on CD with a disc of bonus outtakes. This has allowed me to make several observations about IKINW. There is still (and may never be) any official reason for the different mixes, but here's my take:

The original LP IKINW mix was the result of a mastering error; it was not a certain "mix," and it was not how Fleetwood Mac intended for the song to sound. Several pieces of proof exist...

1) If you have an original Tusk LP, you can actually "see" a difference in the appearance of the grooves at the IKINW track. They stand out as different from all of the other tracks on the record, and I believe that the grooves look so strange because the left and right channels are exactly the same, whereas the other tracks all have stereo channels. This leads me to my second point:

2) No other song on the Tusk LP lacks stereo effect. IKINW is the only song on the entire album with no stereo effects at all. Both channels play the same sound from the beginning to the end of the song, but only if you're listening to Tusk on the original vinyl release.

3) As others have stated, playing any CD version of IKINW while turning the balance control to only the left channel produces the exact same mono "LP Mix" that people have claimed is the original mix of IKINW; however, playing the CD version on an even balance introduces the stereo effects that are oddly missing from the entire LP version of the song.

4) Tusk was reissued on vinyl in 2012 and is still available new as such. Warner Bros. went to great lengths to preserve the original album as much as possible. The LP reissue even includes the double inner decorative picture sleeves that were used in the original release. The IKINW track, however, includes the stereo "CD mix", not the mono "LP mix." What's more, the IKINW track no longer visually stands out on the LP as having strange groove reflections. As much effort as WB put into making this reissue look authentic, I have to imagine that they used the version of IKINW that Fleetwood Mac intended--the version that included stereo effects like the rest of the album.

5) The last piece of evidence can be found on the special edition Tusk CD reissue from 2013. The second disc contains outtakes and demos of various Tusk songs. There are several IKINW outtakes on the second disc, and most of these pre-release versions of the song contain elements of the stereo "CD mix" and none of the pre-release versions sound specifically like the mono "LP mix."

So yeah... that's my long-winded explanation. There's no official word (which I think is odd since even the Wikipedia page notes something about the "LP mix" in the track listing), but from everything that I can tell, it appears that the original LP version of the song was released in error. The only real question is when did FM and WB realize that the error existed, and how many copies were affected? It's possible that only certain presses contained the flaw, or it's possible that all LP's contained the flaw. It's possible that the error was fixed early on, or it's possible that it was never fixed until the 2012 vinyl reissue. I'd love to know the answer to some of those questions. I do own a NOS copy of Tusk that's still sealed, but I'd hate to open it just to see if it also contains the flaw. It's also unclear if the original cassette releases were affected or not.

I think people prefer whichever version of IKINW that they were first introduced to. Those who first heard it on vinyl LP think that the correct stereo version sounds superfluous. Those who heard the song first on CD think that the erroneous mono version sounds flat. Either way it's a good song. I'd like to see a statement from WB or FM addressing the truth of the matter just for my own curiosity.

Hmmm, the mystery deepens. IKINW on my Tusk vinyl LP (possibly not an original 1979 pressing but not a recent reissue) is definitely a stereo mix. L/R separation is easily audible immediately from the intro, with a percussion instrument (sounds like a wood block) only in the right channel and an acoustic guitar track only in the left channel. Based on your observations above, it's possible that some LP pressings did indeed get past quality control with a mastering error causing IKINW to be in mono, but maybe the error was only made on certain pressings or was corrected on later pressings.

With that said, the stereo mix on my vinyl LP is definitely different than the initial CD release as is widely known. One quick way to hear the mix difference is when the chorus starts at the :49 mark and the CD mix contains background vocals that aren't present on the LP mix.

BTW, the hi-rez version available on HDTracks contains the original stereo LP mix of IKINW.

[Johnny Stew]

Originally Posted by mediumbluemetal

It's also unclear if the original cassette releases were affected or not.

The version on the cassette edition is the same as the LP.

Very interesting post. I wonder if this mystery will ever be solved.

Welcome to the Ledge!

[Phil]

I don't recall Stevie's harmony vocal during the third verse of IKINW being present in the original LP mix, but it may be the case that it just wasn't prominent for the reasons outlined above.

[lbfan]

Originally Posted by mediumbluemetal

As far as I know, the "Sara" 45 edit was used on original CD pressings due to technical limitations of the early compact disc; Tusk was a long album, and truncating Sara allowed the album to be issued on a single CD. When the CD mastering process evolved, Tusk was never re-mastered to include the full version of "Sara" until the 2000s deluxe reissue.

Now, on to "I Know I'm Not Wrong" and the issue of the different LP vs CD "mix" of the song. It's been several years since this thread was last added to, and since then, Tusk has be reissued on LP and also reissued on CD with a disc of bonus outtakes. This has allowed me to make several observations about IKINW. There is still (and may never be) any official reason for the different mixes, but here's my take:

The original LP IKINW mix was the result of a mastering error; it was not a certain "mix," and it was not how Fleetwood Mac intended for the song to sound. Several pieces of proof exist...

1) If you have an original Tusk LP, you can actually "see" a difference in the appearance of the grooves at the IKINW track. They stand out as different from all of the other tracks on the record, and I believe that the grooves look so strange because the left and right channels are exactly the same, whereas the other tracks all have stereo channels. This leads me to my second point:

2) No other song on the Tusk LP lacks stereo effect. IKINW is the only song on the entire album with no stereo effects at all. Both channels play the same sound from the beginning to the end of the song, but only if you're listening to Tusk on the original vinyl release.

3) As others have stated, playing any CD version of IKINW while turning the balance control to only the left channel produces the exact same mono "LP Mix" that people have claimed is the original mix of IKINW; however, playing the CD version on an even balance introduces the stereo effects that are oddly missing from the entire LP version of the song.

4) Tusk was reissued on vinyl in 2012 and is still available new as such. Warner Bros. went to great lengths to preserve the original album as much as possible. The LP reissue even includes the double inner decorative picture sleeves that were used in the original release. The IKINW track, however, includes the stereo "CD mix", not the mono "LP mix." What's more, the IKINW track no longer visually stands out on the LP as having strange groove reflections. As much effort as WB put into making this reissue look authentic, I have to imagine that they used the version of IKINW that Fleetwood Mac intended--the version that included stereo effects like the rest of the album.

5) The last piece of evidence can be found on the special edition Tusk CD reissue from 2013. The second disc contains outtakes and demos of various Tusk songs. There are several IKINW outtakes on the second disc, and most of these pre-release versions of the song contain elements of the stereo "CD mix" and none of the pre-release versions sound specifically like the mono "LP mix."

So yeah... that's my long-winded explanation. There's no official word (which I think is odd since even the Wikipedia page notes something about the "LP mix" in the track listing), but from everything that I can tell, it appears that the original LP version of the song was released in error. The only real question is when did FM and WB realize that the error existed, and how many copies were affected? It's possible that only certain presses contained the flaw, or it's possible that all LP's contained the flaw. It's possible that the error was fixed early on, or it's possible that it was never fixed until the 2012 vinyl reissue. I'd love to know the answer to some of those questions. I do own a NOS copy of Tusk that's still sealed, but I'd hate to open it just to see if it also contains the flaw. It's also unclear if the original cassette releases were affected or not.

I think people prefer whichever version of IKINW that they were first introduced to. Those who first heard it on vinyl LP think that the correct stereo version sounds superfluous. Those who heard the song first on CD think that the erroneous mono version sounds flat. Either way it's a good song. I'd like to see a statement from WB or FM addressing the truth of the matter just for my own curiosity.

I wonder if the original LP mix with mono was intentional by Lindsey, and others have since tried to "correct" it.

[seekerj]

Originally Posted by HomerMcvie

I'm dating myself, but I had the original cassette version of Straight Back, and there was NO guitar solo at the end....it wasn't until years later, that I got the CD, and was like, "wtf?".

WHY would they put out different versions, on different format? Maybe Ken knows....?


~my only thought would be, that they were maybe trying to make some release deadline, and finished adding a few overdubs, for later releases...~???

See, now this is so weird, because it was on a cassette that I first heard the version with the guitar solo. It shocked me because I didn't expect it. My album didn't have it, but the cassette did. I don't know if it was an original-release cassette though, or a later release. When I bought the CD in the late 1980's, it had the guitar solo. But the first time I ever heard that version was on casette.

[Cammie]

Originally Posted by seekerj

See, now this is so weird, because it was on a cassette that I first heard the version with the guitar solo. It shocked me because I didn't expect it. My album didn't have it, but the cassette did. I don't know if it was an original-release cassette though, or a later release. When I bought the CD in the late 1980's, it had the guitar solo. But the first time I ever heard that version was on casette.

I cherish my cassettes !!! (*o*) Especially the lovely
melodies of analog ... with a "richness" in the tunes!