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  #76  
Old 06-11-2018, 10:17 PM
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Originally Posted by Sugar Mouse View Post
I agree that most forums have moved to Facebook but many still exist on their own. Neil Finn and all things Finn have a fantastic fan forum that's still fairly active. Would be ideal if this forum were a true Fleetwood Mac forum instead of a Lindsey Buckingham forum but life is imperfect.
I'll want to see what happens on those Finn forums when Neil Finn amputates one fifth of himself and kicks it to the curb with no plausible explanation.
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  #77  
Old 06-11-2018, 10:31 PM
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Get a grip. I’m sorry but I’ve been posting or lurking here for almost 20 years and I’ve never felt it was a LB forum vs FM. If anything over the years it was far more a Stevie forum than anything else. Maybe too many of us are simply appalled at what has transpired in 2018. I own about ten LB solo songs altogether (if that) but I’m sure you’d accuse me of being a LB Super fan hiding in a FM band forum. You’d be wrong. I am here because of the band - the five “fireflies.”
I'm a huge fan of Lindsey, but I'm somehow able to see that the breakup has responsibility on both sides of the fence. That point seems to elude most of the folks on this forum. Perhaps I'm less perturbed by the breakup because I was a fan many years before Lindsey/Stevie joined the band. There are more Fleetwood Mac albums without Lindsey than with Lindsey, so life goes on even if it's not the "classic" lineup.
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  #78  
Old 06-11-2018, 10:48 PM
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Originally Posted by jmn3 View Post
Get a grip. I’m sorry but I’ve been posting or lurking here for almost 20 years and I’ve never felt it was a LB forum vs FM. If anything over the years it was far more a Stevie forum than anything else. Maybe too many of us are simply appalled at what has transpired in 2018. I own about ten LB solo songs altogether (if that) but I’m sure you’d accuse me of being a LB Super fan hiding in a FM band forum. You’d be wrong. I am here because of the band - the five “fireflies.”
That is the best description of what has transpired with FM in the past year, that I've read yet.

I was never a Lindsey super fan, but he's all I've got left to cling to.
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  #79  
Old 06-11-2018, 11:00 PM
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Originally Posted by sasja View Post
I'll want to see what happens on those Finn forums when Neil Finn amputates one fifth of himself and kicks it to the curb with no plausible explanation.
Actually Crowded House has had its share of losses over the years (Paul Hester's tragic death and Tim Finn abruptly quitting the band) and somehow the band has weathered on as strong as ever.
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  #80  
Old 06-11-2018, 11:06 PM
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Originally Posted by Sugar Mouse View Post
I'm a huge fan of Lindsey, but I'm somehow able to see that the breakup has responsibility on both sides of the fence. That point seems to elude most of the folks on this forum. Perhaps I'm less perturbed by the breakup because I was a fan many years before Lindsey/Stevie joined the band. There are more Fleetwood Mac albums without Lindsey than with Lindsey, so life goes on even if it's not the "classic" lineup.
You're really missing the point here. The user you're replying to was right in saying that this has never really been a "Lindsey forum" like you keep calling it. Few people are dumb enough to think Lindsey just did absolutely nothing. He obviously had some request or something he wanted that was causing some type of conflict. But the reason there are so many angry fans and so many fans who hold resentment against other band members for it is because this situation is appalling, especially at this point in their careers. For so many reasons. It is absolutely reasonable for even big Stevie fans to be upset with her (and there are many) because this just never would've happened if it was her. Everyone knows this and that's why so much of the discussion ends up being about Stevie or related to her. If she told them to cancel the entire tour they probably would've done so and there's really no question about that. She's done SO much in recent years to alter/delay/impact the band's activities and she's been allowed to. And Lindsey gets thrown out for it? When he's the one who's given the MOST time and effort into the band? You don't even have to LIKE Lindsey to acknowledge that fact. And it's especially appalling when there's ample to indicate that he was trying to work on a plan that would make things work. OF COURSE people are going to question the intentions of those like Stevie or Mick in this situation.
And if you don't care about what lineups are considered classic or not then fine, don't think about it with the word 'classic' in mind. Think about time. Those 5 people defined Fleetwood Mac for several decades. The other lineups that produced those other albums lasted a few years each. When you're Lindsey and have given several decades of your life filled with hard work to a band, it's hard to wrap your head around how they can throw you out because you wanted them to be flexible with you and then replace you and treat you as if you were just any other band member.
This is why people are mad. It's not about blame. It's about the fact that this should not have happened, the people still in the band should not have let this happen. It reflects badly on them that they did. You don't let one member do whatever the hell she wants and then kick another one out when he wants something, not after all this time. People called Don Henley and Glenn Frey assholes and horrible people for YEARS after they fired Don Felder, and Don Felder's role in the Eagles was never even close to what Lindsey's has been in Fleetwood Mac. People STILL call Don Henley a terrible person because of it. Of course people are going to be upset with Mick/Stevie, even John and Chris. It really makes them look terrible if you ask me, they're tarnishing their own legacy.
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  #81  
Old 06-11-2018, 11:20 PM
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Originally Posted by Sugar Mouse View Post
Actually Crowded House has had its share of losses over the years (Paul Hester's tragic death and Tim Finn abruptly quitting the band) and somehow the band has weathered on as strong as ever.
WHO TF are you talking about? Mick, this is a FM forum. I would hope that Crowded House has some sort of interwebs chat device?
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  #82  
Old 06-11-2018, 11:31 PM
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Originally Posted by dreamsunwind View Post
You're really missing the point here. The user you're replying to was right in saying that this has never really been a "Lindsey forum" like you keep calling it. Few people are dumb enough to think Lindsey just did absolutely nothing. He obviously had some request or something he wanted that was causing some type of conflict. But the reason there are so many angry fans and so many fans who hold resentment against other band members for it is because this situation is appalling, especially at this point in their careers. For so many reasons. It is absolutely reasonable for even big Stevie fans to be upset with her (and there are many) because this just never would've happened if it was her. Everyone knows this and that's why so much of the discussion ends up being about Stevie or related to her. If she told them to cancel the entire tour they probably would've done so and there's really no question about that. She's done SO much in recent years to alter/delay/impact the band's activities and she's been allowed to. And Lindsey gets thrown out for it? When he's the one who's given the MOST time and effort into the band? You don't even have to LIKE Lindsey to acknowledge that fact. And it's especially appalling when there's ample to indicate that he was trying to work on a plan that would make things work. OF COURSE people are going to question the intentions of those like Stevie or Mick in this situation.
And if you don't care about what lineups are considered classic or not then fine, don't think about it with the word 'classic' in mind. Think about time. Those 5 people defined Fleetwood Mac for several decades. The other lineups that produced those other albums lasted a few years each. When you're Lindsey and have given several decades of your life filled with hard work to a band, it's hard to wrap your head around how they can throw you out because you wanted them to be flexible with you and then replace you and treat you as if you were just any other band member.
This is why people are mad. It's not about blame. It's about the fact that this should not have happened, the people still in the band should not have let this happen. It reflects badly on them that they did. You don't let one member do whatever the hell she wants and then kick another one out when he wants something, not after all this time. People called Don Henley and Glenn Frey assholes and horrible people for YEARS after they fired Don Felder, and Don Felder's role in the Eagles was never even close to what Lindsey's has been in Fleetwood Mac. People STILL call Don Henley a terrible person because of it. Of course people are going to be upset with Mick/Stevie, even John and Chris. It really makes them look terrible if you ask me, they're tarnishing their own legacy.
The problem with everything you just wrote is that you and I and everyone else outside of the band's inner circle don't know exactly what happened that led to the band firing Lindsey. It's very possible (I would say likely) that there are lots of details that would make you much more sympathetic to the band's position.
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  #83  
Old 06-12-2018, 12:09 AM
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Originally Posted by Sugar Mouse View Post
The problem with everything you just wrote is that you and I and everyone else outside of the band's inner circle don't know exactly what happened that led to the band firing Lindsey. It's very possible (I would say likely) that there are lots of details that would make you much more sympathetic to the band's position.
And the problem with that is the fact that the band is already telling a story that Lindsey was insisting upon not wanting to tour for a year. In telling that story, they're already trying to make themselves look as sympathetic and innocent as possible, throwing Lindsey under the bus, making it seem as if he just didn't want to do this, he was trying to act like the boss and he left them with no choice. And Stevie furthering that by unnecessarily commenting that she's not the "boss" in the band (ignoring her own actions over the years). Also it's interesting that you're saying this now since you claimed several times that you had inner circle 'sources' who told you that is what it's about. And then there are people who also have reliable 'sources' who said that's not even true, and the reality is more sympathetic towards Lindsey. And then there's those who claimed this was about Stevie getting annoyed and issuing an ultimatum. And then there's Lindsey's wife claiming he got a 'raw deal'. And then there's the little facts from people like Rick Turner and Federico Poll and that video of Lindsey, suggesting that he was trying to work a plan out. This isn't 1987, in today's day and age things get out and info is spread. So while it is true that we'll probably never know every tiny detail, just about everything we do know seems to suggest this was Lindsey getting thrown out over some scheduling issue (or a possibly bitter Stevie Nicks) and frankly unless it comes out that Lindsey graffiti-ed Mick's and Stevie's houses while they were arguing, the odds of me somehow sympathizing with them are low. Bands are no stranger to conflicts, especially not this group which has dealt through probably hundreds of conflicts over the years, they've dealt through every single member at their absolute worst, they should've dealt with this instead of choosing the more convenient way out.
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  #84  
Old 06-12-2018, 04:57 AM
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Originally Posted by Sugar Mouse View Post
I agree that most forums have moved to Facebook but many still exist on their own. Neil Finn and all things Finn have a fantastic fan forum that's still fairly active. Would be ideal if this forum were a true Fleetwood Mac forum instead of a Lindsey Buckingham forum but life is imperfect.
It is not at all accurate to say that this is a LB forum, you have only started posting here and you are unaware of the vast majority of FM fans here that are now appalled at this situation. Most members were either fans of all five fireflies together or specifically SN or CM, BuckMcVie fans. That has now changed as people feel an injustice has occurred. Just because you do not feel the same does not mean that you can call this forum unfairly biased.
Again I am a huge Finn fan I have been for probably 35 years, whilst I do not begrudge him for joining the band I am still so incredibly angry that this vacant role became available in the band in the first place. I don't want anybody trying to take Lindsey's place. I do not share your excitement for this chapter, Finn fan or not.
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  #85  
Old 06-12-2018, 05:53 AM
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Originally Posted by Sugar Mouse View Post
Actually Crowded House has had its share of losses over the years (Paul Hester's tragic death and Tim Finn abruptly quitting the band) and somehow the band has weathered on as strong as ever.
Again, mouse, to me personally, and I feel, many more here, there is a vast distinction between being FIRED ( with no plausible reason given) and someone perishing or quitting a band, which would leave a fan likely with more sympathetic notions for the remainder of the band, those latter two. The first one however, does NOT, for most fans

There, once again, lies the difference.
And the argument of scheduling holds NO water, considering Stevie of all people has for years made herself scarcely available without visible (to us fans) repercussion.

Truly, there lies the rub, hence so many of us siding with the sudden new underdog.
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  #86  
Old 06-12-2018, 08:30 AM
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Originally Posted by Sugar Mouse View Post
I agree that most forums have moved to Facebook but many still exist on their own. Neil Finn and all things Finn have a fantastic fan forum that's still fairly active. Would be ideal if this forum were a true Fleetwood Mac forum instead of a Lindsey Buckingham forum but life is imperfect.
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Originally Posted by Sugar Mouse View Post
The problem with everything you just wrote is that you and I and everyone else outside of the band's inner circle don't know exactly what happened that led to the band firing Lindsey. It's very possible (I would say likely) that there are lots of details that would make you much more sympathetic to the band's position.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Angel75 View Post
It is not at all accurate to say that this is a LB forum, you have only started posting here and you are unaware of the vast majority of FM fans here that are now appalled at this situation. Most members were either fans of all five fireflies together or specifically SN or CM, BuckMcVie fans. That has now changed as people feel an injustice has occurred. Just because you do not feel the same does not mean that you can call this forum unfairly biased.
Again I am a huge Finn fan I have been for probably 35 years, whilst I do not begrudge him for joining the band I am still so incredibly angry that this vacant role became available in the band in the first place. I don't want anybody trying to take Lindsey's place. I do not share your excitement for this chapter, Finn fan or not.
Thank you Angel75 for summing this up perfectly.

Sugar Mick, for someone who CLAIMS to be such a HUGE Fleetwood Mac fan, why did it take you so long to join here? You know basically nothing about the members of this forum, compared to those that have been here for years. You've arrived on this chat site a mere month ago and have spent the entire time:

-Trying to convert everyone to Finn fans.
-Telling most members here that they are wrong.
-Stirring the pot with your posts.

If you think the Ledge is biased, might I point out that you don't have to subject yourself to our "biased" thinking. And if we want to be angry with the band, guess what??? We can be angry with them. We can be angry with them because we look at the whole band and not just cheering on the fact that Finn has joined them. Stop telling us how to think.
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  #87  
Old 06-12-2018, 09:48 AM
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Originally Posted by dreamsunwind View Post
It's about the fact that this should not have happened, the people still in the band should not have let this happen. It reflects badly on them that they did. You don't let one member do whatever the hell she wants and then kick another one out when he wants something, not after all this time. People called Don Henley and Glenn Frey assholes and horrible people for YEARS after they fired Don Felder, and Don Felder's role in the Eagles was never even close to what Lindsey's has been in Fleetwood Mac. People STILL call Don Henley a terrible person because of it. Of course people are going to be upset with Mick/Stevie, even John and Chris. It really makes them look terrible if you ask me, they're tarnishing their own legacy.
exactly. this "get over it" stuff when te news just barely broke is getting way old. we have decades to catch up on Eagles / Don situation and get over stuff here.
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  #88  
Old 06-12-2018, 12:26 PM
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And the problem with that is the fact that the band is already telling a story that Lindsey was insisting upon not wanting to tour for a year. In telling that story, they're already trying to make themselves look as sympathetic and innocent as possible, throwing Lindsey under the bus, making it seem as if he just didn't want to do this, he was trying to act like the boss and he left them with no choice. And Stevie furthering that by unnecessarily commenting that she's not the "boss" in the band (ignoring her own actions over the years). Also it's interesting that you're saying this now since you claimed several times that you had inner circle 'sources' who told you that is what it's about. And then there are people who also have reliable 'sources' who said that's not even true, and the reality is more sympathetic towards Lindsey. And then there's those who claimed this was about Stevie getting annoyed and issuing an ultimatum. And then there's Lindsey's wife claiming he got a 'raw deal'. And then there's the little facts from people like Rick Turner and Federico Poll and that video of Lindsey, suggesting that he was trying to work a plan out. This isn't 1987, in today's day and age things get out and info is spread. So while it is true that we'll probably never know every tiny detail, just about everything we do know seems to suggest this was Lindsey getting thrown out over some scheduling issue (or a possibly bitter Stevie Nicks) and frankly unless it comes out that Lindsey graffiti-ed Mick's and Stevie's houses while they were arguing, the odds of me somehow sympathizing with them are low. Bands are no stranger to conflicts, especially not this group which has dealt through probably hundreds of conflicts over the years, they've dealt through every single member at their absolute worst, they should've dealt with this instead of choosing the more convenient way out.
Lindsey's inner circle does believe he got a raw deal. I might feel the same way if he were my brother. And yes I do have two sources. One in Lindsey's production team and one in his management team who both told me that the band's story is what happened. The band planned this tour a year in advance. Lindsey decided that he wanted to do a solo tour alongside the Mac tour. The band said "no" and then Lindsey said he wanted to delay the Mac tour for a year and the band then fired him. That's what I've been told by two independent people close with Lindsey.
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  #89  
Old 06-12-2018, 12:30 PM
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Originally Posted by lovethemac1 View Post
Thank you Angel75 for summing this up perfectly.

Sugar Mick, for someone who CLAIMS to be such a HUGE Fleetwood Mac fan, why did it take you so long to join here? You know basically nothing about the members of this forum, compared to those that have been here for years. You've arrived on this chat site a mere month ago and have spent the entire time:

-Trying to convert everyone to Finn fans.
-Telling most members here that they are wrong.
-Stirring the pot with your posts.

If you think the Ledge is biased, might I point out that you don't have to subject yourself to our "biased" thinking. And if we want to be angry with the band, guess what??? We can be angry with them. We can be angry with them because we look at the whole band and not just cheering on the fact that Finn has joined them. Stop telling us how to think.
You can believe what you like. I've been a huge Mac fan since 1970. I simply didn't know about this forum until recently. I'm also a huge Finn fan. Not just Neil by the way ... also Tim Finn. I just think that a forum that says it's a Fleetwood Mac forum shouldn't be 95% filled with "Lindsey as victim" posts. That makes it a Lindsey forum and not a Fleetwood Mac forum.
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  #90  
Old 06-12-2018, 12:32 PM
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Originally Posted by sasja View Post
Again, mouse, to me personally, and I feel, many more here, there is a vast distinction between being FIRED ( with no plausible reason given) and someone perishing or quitting a band, which would leave a fan likely with more sympathetic notions for the remainder of the band, those latter two. The first one however, does NOT, for most fans

There, once again, lies the difference.
And the argument of scheduling holds NO water, considering Stevie of all people has for years made herself scarcely available without visible (to us fans) repercussion.

Truly, there lies the rub, hence so many of us siding with the sudden new underdog.
You may not like the reason, but the band had a reason to fire him. Lindsey agreed to a tour and the tour was scheduled and then Lindsey decided to delay the tour for a year. You may not like that but that appears to be what happened. As far as I know, Stevie never agreed to a tour and then backed out at the last minute.
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