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  #76  
Old 06-12-2018, 02:02 AM
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He was the perfect svengali for Fleetwood Mac's non-live approach.
I don't want to sound evil because it's not my intention, but Svengali was a negative (and possibly anti-semite) character.
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  #77  
Old 06-12-2018, 11:26 AM
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To me, assigning blame to Stevie is simply a matter of deduction. We know that Chris was not party to the decision to fire Lindsey- she was simply informed of it after the fact. I cannot fathom John having any other opinion than deferring to Mick. We know that Mick is ALWAYS desperate to tour, and that he's also very close with Stevie. We also know Mick will always side with whatever keeps the band going and money flowing, which also means he'll bend to Stevie's wishes- she's the cash cow. Stevie's very rigid 3 years between FM tours rule has been drilled into everyone's heads, too... and it's been 3 years. Finally, Stevie's issues with Lindsey are very well documented. To me, it's plain Stevie and Lindsey came to an impasse... and Stevie won the game of chicken.

As to exactly what the impasse was, I think that's irrelevant. If it was because Lindsey wanted to put off a FM tour for a year so he can do a solo album/tour- so what? FM has spent most of the 21st century waiting around for Stevie. If Lindsey wanted to sprinkle in solo dates with the FM tour- again, why would they care? His 21st century audiences number in the hundreds... it's not like his shows would have a measurable impact on FM's bottom line. If Lindsey was insisting on a new FM album before touring... again, why should that equate to his firing? Clearly Stevie is the only one averse to recording... why should she be able to fire Lindsey when she's in the minority?

And I'll reiterate I am not now nor have I ever been primarily a Lindsey fan. Stevie has always been my favorite FM member... but my love of FM by far eclipses my love of her solo work, ten to one. I'm no misogynist, either (like most gay men, I prefer the company of women). Nor am I an Enquirer-reading Trumpite (I'm a registered Democrat). All of these things have been hurled at those of us angry about Lindsey's firing. All that most people on this board wanted was a final album from the Rumours 5... which is why we're so upset by this whole thing, end of story. We won't get that now, and it's very clear to us who is to blame.
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  #78  
Old 06-12-2018, 12:22 PM
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Originally Posted by louielouie2000 View Post
To me, assigning blame to Stevie is simply a matter of deduction. We know that Chris was not party to the decision to fire Lindsey- she was simply informed of it after the fact. I cannot fathom John having any other opinion than deferring to Mick. We know that Mick is ALWAYS desperate to tour, and that he's also very close with Stevie. We also know Mick will always side with whatever keeps the band going and money flowing, which also means he'll bend to Stevie's wishes- she's the cash cow. Stevie's very rigid 3 years between FM tours rule has been drilled into everyone's heads, too... and it's been 3 years. Finally, Stevie's issues with Lindsey are very well documented. To me, it's plain Stevie and Lindsey came to an impasse... and Stevie won the game of chicken.

As to exactly what the impasse was, I think that's irrelevant. If it was because Lindsey wanted to put off a FM tour for a year so he can do a solo album/tour- so what? FM has spent most of the 21st century waiting around for Stevie. If Lindsey wanted to sprinkle in solo dates with the FM tour- again, why would they care? His 21st century audiences number in the hundreds... it's not like his shows would have a measurable impact on FM's bottom line. If Lindsey was insisting on a new FM album before touring... again, why should that equate to his firing? Clearly Stevie is the only one averse to recording... why should she be able to fire Lindsey when she's in the minority?

And I'll reiterate I am not now nor have I ever been primarily a Lindsey fan. Stevie has always been my favorite FM member... but my love of FM by far eclipses my love of her solo work, ten to one. I'm no misogynist, either (like most gay men, I prefer the company of women). Nor am I an Enquirer-reading Trumpite (I'm a registered Democrat). All of these things have been hurled at those of us angry about Lindsey's firing. All that most people on this board wanted was a final album from the Rumours 5... which is why we're so upset by this whole thing, end of story. We won't get that now, and it's very clear to us who is to blame.
I can respect what you wrote that even if Lindsey wanted to put off the tour for a year the band shouldn't have fired him. That's the core issue. I think it's highly likely that Lindsey did want to put off the tour for a long while once the band nixed his idea of Lindsey touring at the same time as a Fleetwood Mac tour. The core issue is whether the band should have fired him if they had a tour scheduled and Lindsey decided to back out. You believe that they should have cancelled the tour.
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  #79  
Old 06-12-2018, 01:00 PM
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I think it wasn't as much about trying get along for the purpose of getting along as it was about getting her to record. I think he reaaaaaaally wanted to get her to record and was very much trying to butter her up to lure her back in the studio. I was reading/listening to a lot of the interviews with him from around 2011-2013 and it's obvious how much he was trying for that. He talked a lot about how happy he knew she was when she made her album with Dave Stewart all nice and cozy at her house and that it was a really good experience for her. Then shortly after that he had her come to HIS house for the EP and he made it all nice and cozy. He even said he wrote Sad Angel about that exact thing, her getting back to 'fight' the FM battle. Even little things like David Wilde said he added Stephanie to his solo setlist because he thought she might like it etc. Basically I think he was trying to kiss her butt to get her to do an album but it didn't work and I'm sure he started getting very frustrated.

http://www.buckinghamnicks.info/quot...nment-12062012
Here's an interesting one from before the 2013 tour for example, look at what he says here:

Q: "Yes, but you said you wanted to do an album first. Stevie told me she wanted to do an album but people aren’t interested in them anymore, so you have just the two songs for now."

A: “Oh no, that’s not true. I don’t know what she’s talking about. She just didn’t come with any songs. She didn’t want to do an album. I said ‘Stevie, what do you think?’ and she said ‘No, I don’t want to do that.’ So I didn’t push it. I’ve got all this stuff sitting around. I’ll get John (McVie) and Mick (Fleetwood) over here from Hawaii and do a low-key, under-the-radar situation, producer-wise, just see what happens. We cut like seven, eight tracks with Mitchell Froom and the stuff turned out great. We did it all in the proper keys for Stevie’s range, and for her to drop in her parts. My hope she would hear some of this stuff and love it and get drawn in. She wasn’t really prepared to love it, so she didn’t. She’s starting to love it more now, now that she’s on a couple. She felt sort of put-upon and that’s fair enough I guess. She had her idea of not wanting to do it and here I was getting John and Mick over, doing this rah-rah thing. Come on guys!”

Q: I have a feeling this interview is going to get the tour canceled before it begins...

A: “No, no, no, not at all. But I think probably she felt put-upon in the sense she didn’t have a lot of material sitting around to bring. Maybe there was a sense of pressure on her part. I was talking to Mick yesterday. At some point we’re going to be very glad we did this material. Something’s gonna happen with this. What that is remains to be seen. If we only use a couple of these for now, that’s fine. Stevie still needs to come with something. Who’s to say? I’m not pushing for an album. Down the line, maybe. I think it would be great. Stevie’s gotta be happy, she’s gotta be comfortable and that’s really the bottom line."
So this is the monster who deserved to be fired because of the horrible way he was treating Stevie in the studio?

I'm sure the people characterizing Lindsey as currently being unyielding in the studio are taking note that their recriminations are unsupported by facts and will refrain from characterizing him that way in the future, thereby demonstrating their integrity.
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Last edited by sodascouts : 06-12-2018 at 02:10 PM.
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  #80  
Old 06-12-2018, 01:59 PM
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Originally Posted by louielouie2000 View Post
To me, assigning blame to Stevie is simply a matter of deduction. We know that Chris was not party to the decision to fire Lindsey- she was simply informed of it after the fact. I cannot fathom John having any other opinion than deferring to Mick. We know that Mick is ALWAYS desperate to tour, and that he's also very close with Stevie. We also know Mick will always side with whatever keeps the band going and money flowing, which also means he'll bend to Stevie's wishes- she's the cash cow. Stevie's very rigid 3 years between FM tours rule has been drilled into everyone's heads, too... and it's been 3 years. Finally, Stevie's issues with Lindsey are very well documented. To me, it's plain Stevie and Lindsey came to an impasse... and Stevie won the game of chicken.

As to exactly what the impasse was, I think that's irrelevant. If it was because Lindsey wanted to put off a FM tour for a year so he can do a solo album/tour- so what? FM has spent most of the 21st century waiting around for Stevie. If Lindsey wanted to sprinkle in solo dates with the FM tour- again, why would they care? His 21st century audiences number in the hundreds... it's not like his shows would have a measurable impact on FM's bottom line. If Lindsey was insisting on a new FM album before touring... again, why should that equate to his firing? Clearly Stevie is the only one averse to recording... why should she be able to fire Lindsey when she's in the minority?

And I'll reiterate I am not now nor have I ever been primarily a Lindsey fan. Stevie has always been my favorite FM member... but my love of FM by far eclipses my love of her solo work, ten to one. I'm no misogynist, either (like most gay men, I prefer the company of women). Nor am I an Enquirer-reading Trumpite (I'm a registered Democrat). All of these things have been hurled at those of us angry about Lindsey's firing. All that most people on this board wanted was a final album from the Rumours 5... which is why we're so upset by this whole thing, end of story. We won't get that now, and it's very clear to us who is to blame.
Very well said. My thoughts exactly.
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  #81  
Old 06-12-2018, 02:14 PM
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Originally Posted by Sugar Mouse View Post
The core issue is whether the band should have fired him if they had a tour scheduled and Lindsey decided to back out. You believe that they should have cancelled the tour.
But was the tour scheduled? I thought there were plans but no schedule. I think if he was backing out after a scheduled tour then serious contractual repercussions would result.
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  #82  
Old 06-12-2018, 04:30 PM
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But was the tour scheduled? I thought there were plans but no schedule. I think if he was backing out after a scheduled tour then serious contractual repercussions would result.
I think Mick implied that Lindsey was hesitating in signing the contract. However Christine said (during interviews around the time of the BM album) that an upcoming FM tour was a given and they had all "signed off on the dotted line".

I wondered that too. If he hadn't signed off yet, would they still have been able to book shows normally if he wasn't a total given? And if he had signed off, couldn't he take legal action against them now? Unless there's a clause in the contract which said that they're allowed to kick anyone out regardless.
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  #83  
Old 06-12-2018, 08:00 PM
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i think the title of this thread should be "Stevie The Goat, The Root Reason" not "Stevie as scapegoat". heeehawww. ;-)

But seriously. Its quite clear who got this ball rolling, made the stink, is having the 3/4 life crisis, and can't handle Tom's loss, is the Queen B....
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  #84  
Old 06-13-2018, 10:35 AM
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Originally Posted by louielouie2000 View Post
To me, assigning blame to Stevie is simply a matter of deduction. We know that Chris was not party to the decision to fire Lindsey- she was simply informed of it after the fact. I cannot fathom John having any other opinion than deferring to Mick. We know that Mick is ALWAYS desperate to tour, and that he's also very close with Stevie. We also know Mick will always side with whatever keeps the band going and money flowing, which also means he'll bend to Stevie's wishes- she's the cash cow. Stevie's very rigid 3 years between FM tours rule has been drilled into everyone's heads, too... and it's been 3 years. Finally, Stevie's issues with Lindsey are very well documented. To me, it's plain Stevie and Lindsey came to an impasse... and Stevie won the game of chicken.

As to exactly what the impasse was, I think that's irrelevant. If it was because Lindsey wanted to put off a FM tour for a year so he can do a solo album/tour- so what? FM has spent most of the 21st century waiting around for Stevie. If Lindsey wanted to sprinkle in solo dates with the FM tour- again, why would they care? His 21st century audiences number in the hundreds... it's not like his shows would have a measurable impact on FM's bottom line. If Lindsey was insisting on a new FM album before touring... again, why should that equate to his firing? Clearly Stevie is the only one averse to recording... why should she be able to fire Lindsey when she's in the minority?

And I'll reiterate I am not now nor have I ever been primarily a Lindsey fan. Stevie has always been my favorite FM member... but my love of FM by far eclipses my love of her solo work, ten to one. I'm no misogynist, either (like most gay men, I prefer the company of women). Nor am I an Enquirer-reading Trumpite (I'm a registered Democrat). All of these things have been hurled at those of us angry about Lindsey's firing. All that most people on this board wanted was a final album from the Rumours 5... which is why we're so upset by this whole thing, end of story. We won't get that now, and it's very clear to us who is to blame.
Yes. And Yes. Oh--and yes.
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  #85  
Old 06-13-2018, 02:26 PM
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Originally Posted by louielouie2000 View Post
To me, assigning blame to Stevie is simply a matter of deduction. We know that Chris was not party to the decision to fire Lindsey- she was simply informed of it after the fact. I cannot fathom John having any other opinion than deferring to Mick. We know that Mick is ALWAYS desperate to tour, and that he's also very close with Stevie. We also know Mick will always side with whatever keeps the band going and money flowing, which also means he'll bend to Stevie's wishes- she's the cash cow. Stevie's very rigid 3 years between FM tours rule has been drilled into everyone's heads, too... and it's been 3 years. Finally, Stevie's issues with Lindsey are very well documented. To me, it's plain Stevie and Lindsey came to an impasse... and Stevie won the game of chicken.

As to exactly what the impasse was, I think that's irrelevant. If it was because Lindsey wanted to put off a FM tour for a year so he can do a solo album/tour- so what? FM has spent most of the 21st century waiting around for Stevie. If Lindsey wanted to sprinkle in solo dates with the FM tour- again, why would they care? His 21st century audiences number in the hundreds... it's not like his shows would have a measurable impact on FM's bottom line. If Lindsey was insisting on a new FM album before touring... again, why should that equate to his firing? Clearly Stevie is the only one averse to recording... why should she be able to fire Lindsey when she's in the minority?

And I'll reiterate I am not now nor have I ever been primarily a Lindsey fan. Stevie has always been my favorite FM member... but my love of FM by far eclipses my love of her solo work, ten to one. I'm no misogynist, either (like most gay men, I prefer the company of women). Nor am I an Enquirer-reading Trumpite (I'm a registered Democrat). All of these things have been hurled at those of us angry about Lindsey's firing. All that most people on this board wanted was a final album from the Rumours 5... which is why we're so upset by this whole thing, end of story. We won't get that now, and it's very clear to us who is to blame.

Beautifully explained! Thank you.
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  #86  
Old 06-13-2018, 04:30 PM
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Beautifully explained! Thank you.
I wanted a final Rumours five album too. But gave up on that ages ago. What on earth would have kept you clinging to that fantasy? Stevie was never going to do it, it has been clear. So I do not think the rage people are expressing is because of that. I think Lindsey was the best producer for Stevie and I have complained about her solo work as a result. But it has been obvious for many years she will not record with him again. And I am not angry.
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  #87  
Old 06-13-2018, 10:15 PM
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Originally Posted by louielouie2000 View Post
To me, assigning blame to Stevie is simply a matter of deduction. We know that Chris was not party to the decision to fire Lindsey- she was simply informed of it after the fact. I cannot fathom John having any other opinion than deferring to Mick. We know that Mick is ALWAYS desperate to tour, and that he's also very close with Stevie. We also know Mick will always side with whatever keeps the band going and money flowing, which also means he'll bend to Stevie's wishes- she's the cash cow. Stevie's very rigid 3 years between FM tours rule has been drilled into everyone's heads, too... and it's been 3 years. Finally, Stevie's issues with Lindsey are very well documented. To me, it's plain Stevie and Lindsey came to an impasse... and Stevie won the game of chicken.

As to exactly what the impasse was, I think that's irrelevant. If it was because Lindsey wanted to put off a FM tour for a year so he can do a solo album/tour- so what? FM has spent most of the 21st century waiting around for Stevie. If Lindsey wanted to sprinkle in solo dates with the FM tour- again, why would they care? His 21st century audiences number in the hundreds... it's not like his shows would have a measurable impact on FM's bottom line. If Lindsey was insisting on a new FM album before touring... again, why should that equate to his firing? Clearly Stevie is the only one averse to recording... why should she be able to fire Lindsey when she's in the minority?

And I'll reiterate I am not now nor have I ever been primarily a Lindsey fan. Stevie has always been my favorite FM member... but my love of FM by far eclipses my love of her solo work, ten to one. I'm no misogynist, either (like most gay men, I prefer the company of women). Nor am I an Enquirer-reading Trumpite (I'm a registered Democrat). All of these things have been hurled at those of us angry about Lindsey's firing. All that most people on this board wanted was a final album from the Rumours 5... which is why we're so upset by this whole thing, end of story. We won't get that now, and it's very clear to us who is to blame.
Yes... yes... yes... yes...
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Old 06-14-2018, 12:33 AM
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  #88  
Old 06-15-2018, 05:37 PM
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Well, the misogyny comes in with the constant references to Stevie as a c-word, b-word, a hag, etc. Christine hasnít been immune to it either. And the mods donít care. Itís really distasteful.
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  #89  
Old 06-15-2018, 08:38 PM
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I will also say that, while I still love Stevie and FM and listen to their music often, Iím at a point where thatís all I really care about. Iím not that interested in their interpersonal relationships or their personal lives anymore and I have no interest in assigning blame to Stevie or anyone. Once I got over the initial shock, it just...didnít matter to me that much.

ďWith all due respect, Miss, I have my own problems.Ē
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  #90  
Old 06-17-2018, 10:25 AM
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I will also say that, while I still love Stevie and FM and listen to their music often, Iím at a point where thatís all I really care about. Iím not that interested in their interpersonal relationships or their personal lives anymore and I have no interest in assigning blame to Stevie or anyone. Once I got over the initial shock, it just...didnít matter to me that much.

ďWith all due respect, Miss, I have my own problems.Ē
This about sums it up for me. Thanks Markolas. I keep checking in, but my expectations are low.
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