The Ledge

Go Back   The Ledge > Main Forums > Lindsey Buckingham
User Name
Password
Register FAQ Members List Calendar Mark Forums Read


Make the Ads Go Away! Click here.
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #31  
Old 02-06-2020, 05:56 PM
SteveMacD's Avatar
SteveMacD SteveMacD is offline
Addicted Ledgie
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: The Buckeye State
Posts: 8,719
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by elle View Post
Fleetwood Mac would still play packed arenas without Stevie, too. and they played packed arenas without Christine. Fleetwood Mac is a brand.
Based on what, though? It’s a hypothetical. Fleetwood Mac can play arenas without Lindsey. Fleetwood Mac can play arenas without Christine. Stevie can play arenas without Fleetwood Mac. Fleetwood Mac has never done an arena tour without Stevie.

While I realize it wasn’t called Fleetwood Mac, the LBCM tour wasn’t especially well attended, at least by Fleetwood Mac standards. Meanwhile, Stevie had her biggest solo tour in 2017.

As for Fleetwood Mac as a brand, while it was pre-1997 and didn’t feature any of the classic vocalists, the Fleetwood Mac brand itself wasn’t enough to get past opening act or packaged tour level 94-95. Obviously, an MJLC version would be viable, but not at the arena level.

So, again, where is the evidence that Fleetwood Mac would still be an arena band without the member who has sold 30 million albums independent of the band? There‘s no way Mick and John were going to gamble that Fleetwood Mac would remain a huge concert draw without Stevie when they knew they would be with Stevie.
__________________
On and on it will always be, the rhythm, rhyme, and harmony.



THE Stephen Hopkins
Reply With Quote
Old 02-06-2020, 06:52 PM
GoldDustWoman22
This message has been deleted by GoldDustWoman22.
  #32  
Old 02-06-2020, 07:30 PM
SteveMacD's Avatar
SteveMacD SteveMacD is offline
Addicted Ledgie
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: The Buckeye State
Posts: 8,719
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by GoldDustWoman22 View Post
Again, Stevie touring arenas as a headliner has not always been the case.
Not always, but in 2017 it was, the same year LBCM hit the road. Stevie played to arenas, Lindsey and Christine together did not. And Stevie now has the “two time Hall of Famer” thing going for her. Mick and Mike have both recently said that the band won’t be doing another tour of that magnitude again, so it’s a moot point, now.
__________________
On and on it will always be, the rhythm, rhyme, and harmony.



THE Stephen Hopkins
Reply With Quote
  #33  
Old 02-06-2020, 09:13 PM
elle's Avatar
elle elle is offline
Addicted Ledgie
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: DC
Posts: 12,150
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by SteveMacD View Post
While I realize it wasn’t called Fleetwood Mac, the LBCM tour .
exactly. Fleetwood Mac is a brand. Lindsey Buckingham and Christine McVie are not.

Fleetwood Mac is "in" brand, nowadays. people go to their shows to say they saw a legendary band and for singalongs while drinking beer.

Fleetwood Mac before their re-grouping in 1997 were has-beens and a laughing stock ("i'd rather jack" remember?).
__________________

"kind of weird: a tribute to the dearly departed from a band that can treat its living like trash"
Reply With Quote
  #34  
Old 02-06-2020, 10:11 PM
SteveMacD's Avatar
SteveMacD SteveMacD is offline
Addicted Ledgie
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: The Buckeye State
Posts: 8,719
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by elle View Post
exactly. Fleetwood Mac is a brand. Lindsey Buckingham and Christine McVie are not.

Fleetwood Mac is "in" brand, nowadays. people go to their shows to say they saw a legendary band and for singalongs while drinking beer.
However, that brand is too heavily associated with Stevie these days. It would be viable, but it wouldn’t be an arena band.

If there had to be a choice between Stevie and Lindsey and there was no possibility of both being in the band together anymore, Mick, John, and Christine knew from prior history that Fleetwood Mac could survive and continue playing arenas without Lindsey. Sure, they could have taken the creative path, but their relevance as a recording entity passed them by. The Eagles had a hit with “Long Road Out of Eden,” but it’s never going to be held in the same regard as their ‘70s albums. The same would be true for any new Fleetwood Mac album.

So, do you make a new album that will be largely forgotten in a few years and make $3-$6 million, or do you skip the album and make $12 million, keeping in mind that the core 12-15 songs will be the same in either set?
__________________
On and on it will always be, the rhythm, rhyme, and harmony.



THE Stephen Hopkins
Reply With Quote
  #35  
Old 02-06-2020, 11:05 PM
elle's Avatar
elle elle is offline
Addicted Ledgie
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: DC
Posts: 12,150
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by SteveMacD View Post
However, that brand is too heavily associated with Stevie these days. It would be viable, but it wouldn’t be an arena band.
as you said somewhere above - we don't have any proof of that. it's just a calculation that may or may not pan out if tried. i can almost guarantee you they would have been arena band. BuckVie without the name brand recognition were touring sheds, so FM brand? of course they can tour arenas. many other bands of their era are touring without their best known members and still filling arenas, just on the brand alone.

however, you are right that Mick and promoters didn't want to risk the unknown, just in case. they didn't want to in 2011/12 and didn't want to in 2018. and apparently you are similarly risk averse, or you think you'd be.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SteveMacD View Post
So, do you make a new album that will be largely forgotten in a few years and make $3-$6 million, or do you skip the album and make $12 million
what do you do? in their situation? when they already made millions on millions? you disband and keep the peace in the family. you keep the only legendary band with all classic-era members still around and able to perform intact. you don't break it up into pieces.
.
__________________

"kind of weird: a tribute to the dearly departed from a band that can treat its living like trash"
Reply With Quote
  #36  
Old 02-07-2020, 12:13 AM
HomerMcvie's Avatar
HomerMcvie HomerMcvie is offline
Addicted Ledgie
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Nashville, Tennessee
Posts: 15,738
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by elle View Post
as you said somewhere above - we don't have any proof of that. it's just a calculation that may or may not pan out if tried. i can almost guarantee you they would have been arena band. BuckVie without the name brand recognition were touring sheds, so FM brand? of course they can tour arenas. many other bands of their era are touring without their best known members and still filling arenas, just on the brand alone.

however, you are right that Mick and promoters didn't want to risk the unknown, just in case. they didn't want to in 2011/12 and didn't want to in 2018. and apparently you are similarly risk averse, or you think you'd be.


what do you do? in their situation? when they already made millions on millions? you disband and keep the peace in the family. you keep the only legendary band with all classic-era members still around and able to perform intact. you don't break it up into pieces.
.
Idiot Mick can't live on making a half a million. He needs big bucks to live the life that he truly can't afford.

The legacy of FM means nothing to him.

Hitching his broken down wagon to $tevie's sagging 3 note goat tractor is the best chess move he has.
__________________
Christine McVie- she radiated both purity and sass in equal measure, bringing light to the music of the 70s. RIP. - John Taylor(Duran Duran)
Reply With Quote
  #37  
Old 02-07-2020, 12:27 AM
SteveMacD's Avatar
SteveMacD SteveMacD is offline
Addicted Ledgie
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: The Buckeye State
Posts: 8,719
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by elle View Post
as you said somewhere above - we don't have any proof of that. it's just a calculation that may or may not pan out if tried. i can almost guarantee you they would have been arena band. BuckVie without the name brand recognition were touring sheds, so FM brand?
Maybe bigger sheds, or maybe completely fill the sheds they played, but not arenas. The band has largely become synonymous with Stevie (which I’m not happy about).

Quote:
of course they can tour arenas. many other bands of their era are touring without their best known members and still filling arenas, just on the brand alone.
Except the missing best known member, in most cases, isn’t actively working or is dead. Lindsey put a solo tour together after getting sacked that had zero impact on the Fleetwood Mac tour. If they had parted ways with Stevie, she could have easily put a solo tour together that would have completely derailed a Fleetwood Mac tour.

Quote:
however, you are right that Mick and promoters didn't want to risk the unknown, just in case. they didn't want to in 2011/12 and didn't want to in 2018. and apparently you are similarly risk averse, or you think you'd be..
Again, there was no guarantee that a Fleetwood Mac tour would be successful without Stevie, but it was guaranteed that it would be with Stevie. Fleetwood Mac was a weaker brand in 1990 than in 2018, but they still managed to pack arenas without Lindsey, but with Billy Burnette and Rick Vito.

In any case, it’s not my band. I don’t know any of them. As for risk, if it had been up to me, they would have fired Dave Mason in ‘96 and gone on as a quartet with Bekka and Billy for at least one or two more albums. But, just as in 2018, money called.

Quote:
what do you do? in their situation? when they already made millions on millions? you disband and keep the peace in the family. you keep the only legendary band with all classic-era members still around and able to perform intact. you don't break it up into pieces.
Or, they could just get two highly respected musicians and get the bag of money one last time. And, it’s hard to take the “keeping the classic lineup in tact” argument seriously when a lot of people, including Lindsey, thought of who they could get in place of Stevie during the 14-15 tour.
__________________
On and on it will always be, the rhythm, rhyme, and harmony.



THE Stephen Hopkins
Reply With Quote
  #38  
Old 02-07-2020, 08:53 AM
cbBen cbBen is offline
Addicted Ledgie
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 1,139
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by SteveMacD View Post
And, it’s hard to take the “keeping the classic lineup in tact” argument seriously when a lot of people, including Lindsey, thought of who they could get in place of Stevie during the 14-15 tour.
With whom did Lindsey speculate about replacing Stevie for 2014-15, and did he do so publicly? And was it because Stevie was reluctant to tour, then even with Christine back?
Reply With Quote
  #39  
Old 02-07-2020, 10:43 AM
SteveMacD's Avatar
SteveMacD SteveMacD is offline
Addicted Ledgie
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: The Buckeye State
Posts: 8,719
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by cbBen View Post
With whom did Lindsey speculate about replacing Stevie for 2014-15, and did he do so publicly? And was it because Stevie was reluctant to tour, then even with Christine back?
Fans at the hotel bar after shows, because of Stevie’s reluctance to record.
__________________
On and on it will always be, the rhythm, rhyme, and harmony.



THE Stephen Hopkins
Reply With Quote
  #40  
Old 02-07-2020, 02:00 PM
greendaze5's Avatar
greendaze5 greendaze5 is offline
Addicted Ledgie
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Canada
Posts: 382
Default

Interestingly, Lindsey was the opener for Tina Turner's 1993 tour. A friend of mine saw the show in Montreal, Canada.

I remember her telling me that as it was a Tina audience, no one knew who Lindsey was until he did 'Go Your Own Way', and then he was recognized only as 'what's his name from Fleetwood Mac'.
Reply With Quote
  #41  
Old 02-07-2020, 09:59 PM
elle's Avatar
elle elle is offline
Addicted Ledgie
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: DC
Posts: 12,150
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by SteveMacD View Post
Maybe bigger sheds, or maybe completely fill the sheds they played, but not arenas. .
and of course bigger sheds with their lawns can take more people than arenas. so now you're just arguing for the sake of arguing.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SteveMacD View Post
Except the missing best known member, in most cases, isn’t actively working or is dead.
nope i'm not talking about those cases. you have beach boys touring at the same time as Brian Wilson. GnR at the same time as Axl Rose (well, not this year, lol!). the list goes on. come on, you know better!

Quote:
Originally Posted by SteveMacD View Post
Lindsey put a solo tour together after getting sacked that had zero impact on the Fleetwood Mac tour.
aren't you the same guy who was arguing to the end of the world and back how FM just had to fire Lindsey because he wanted to tour solo in between FM dates and therefore take away their revenue? and the rest of us were saying how that's absolute bs. glad you finally came over to our side, took you a while!

Quote:
Originally Posted by SteveMacD View Post
Again, there was no guarantee that a Fleetwood Mac tour would be successful without Stevie, but it was guaranteed that it would be with Stevie. Fleetwood Mac was a weaker brand in 1990 than in 2018, but they still managed to pack arenas without Lindsey, but with Billy Burnette and Rick Vito.
nobody is disagreeing with that, that's why promoters voted to fire Lindsey instead of firing Stevie, it's a difference between a secure vs less secure deal. but FM could tour and fill arenas without Stevie, on the bases of their brand. a bit cheaper though. and maybe not sell out every show (which they didn't even with her anyway!). and there would be some disappointed people expecting Stevie leaving the show same as there were disappointed people about crappy sounding band all over Europe. yet fakewoods and promoters didn't care, they pocketed the money.

as for 1990, it was the time before the interwebs. people here talk about so many people going to the shows and not having any idea who will be in the band. apples and oranges - and again, you know better!
__________________

"kind of weird: a tribute to the dearly departed from a band that can treat its living like trash"
Reply With Quote
  #42  
Old 02-07-2020, 10:03 PM
elle's Avatar
elle elle is offline
Addicted Ledgie
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: DC
Posts: 12,150
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by greendaze5 View Post
Interestingly, Lindsey was the opener for Tina Turner's 1993 tour. A friend of mine saw the show in Montreal, Canada.

I remember her telling me that as it was a Tina audience, no one knew who Lindsey was until he did 'Go Your Own Way', and then he was recognized only as 'what's his name from Fleetwood Mac'.
i've been saying that over and over on these boards and some don't want to believe it - people don't know his name. unless you tell them he's a Go Your Own Way guy / Fleetwood Mac guitarist. that's why he can walk the streets of cities without too many people recognizing him and enjoy relatively normal life.
__________________

"kind of weird: a tribute to the dearly departed from a band that can treat its living like trash"
Reply With Quote
  #43  
Old 02-08-2020, 07:06 AM
Macfan4life's Avatar
Macfan4life Macfan4life is offline
Addicted Ledgie
 
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: Somewhere near Key Biscayne, nothing there so I came back
Posts: 6,105
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by elle View Post
i've been saying that over and over on these boards and some don't want to believe it - people don't know his name. unless you tell them he's a Go Your Own Way guy / Fleetwood Mac guitarist. that's why he can walk the streets of cities without too many people recognizing him and enjoy relatively normal life.
So true. Its also why its hard to sell tickets to a Lindsey show. When I saw Buck/Vie I had people ask me while I was in line who was playing the casino. When I told them Lindsey Buckingham and Christine McVie, they all exclaimed....Who??

In the early days remember the photo of the band where they thought Lindsey was the female (Stevie) and Stevie was the man (Lindsey). Many just referred to them as the band with those 2 ladies in it. But it got crazy when people started referring to Stevie as the lead singer of the band. I always believed that irked the band so much to purposely not release any Stevie single as the lead single off any album. They also only kept her to only 3 songs. Except for Angel, Stevie also never had a song as the first track on any album. I never believed any of this was a "coincidence."
I wish they would have axed one of Lindsey's songs on Mirage and included "Smile at you." That album needed an angry rocker but they kept everything "music box."
__________________
My heart will rise up with the morning sun and the hurt I feel will simply melt away

Last edited by Macfan4life; 02-08-2020 at 07:12 AM..
Reply With Quote
  #44  
Old 02-08-2020, 12:26 PM
elle's Avatar
elle elle is offline
Addicted Ledgie
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: DC
Posts: 12,150
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Macfan4life View Post
So true. Its also why its hard to sell tickets to a Lindsey show. When I saw Buck/Vie I had people ask me while I was in line who was playing the casino. When I told them Lindsey Buckingham and Christine McVie, they all exclaimed....Who??"
exactly.

so when people go around saying look BuckVie with 2 FM front people didn't sell as many tickets as FM last year with the other 2 front people you gotta wonder whether they are willfully ignorant or just plain ignorant of the branding power.

BuckVie under Fleetwood Mac name is a completely different beast than BuckVie under 2 names nobody knows.

NickVie under Fleetwood Mac name has 2 brands in it - the biggest one - Fleetwood Mac, and the 2nd one - Stevie Nicks.

it's been interesting to watch push and pull in advertising over the last 2 years between Mick and Stevie - Mick trying to preserve really hard a Fleetwood Mac brand separate from Stevie Nicks brand. and Stevie and her people and fans for years tried to make those 2 brands synonymous with Stevie Nicks. i've seen tweets that said - i've seen FM and they sucked! then they corrected themselves and said - actually it was Stevie Nicks solo.

so 2 opposite forces played over the last 2 years -
  • Stevie was happy that with LB ouster she takes a clearly lead role in the band now, and maybe finally can realize that decades long ambition that her fans have been pushing so hard - that FM is SN. with Lindsey there, that would have never happened behind the scenes.
  • Mick has been pushing hard all these different versions of FM and FM is all different members, always changing.; he's trying to keep the reigns of the band being completely handed over to Stevie's people, while simultaneously buttering up and appeasing Stevie (guess he's doing that by mainly spitting on LB whenever wherever he can?) so he can keep cashing in.
__________________

"kind of weird: a tribute to the dearly departed from a band that can treat its living like trash"
Reply With Quote
  #45  
Old 02-09-2020, 03:08 PM
jbrownsjr jbrownsjr is online now
Moderator
 
Join Date: Jun 2000
Location: Los Angeles
Posts: 16,379
Default

I have to agree. Buckingham McVie was so out in left field as a name brand. And, the tickets actually did well in my book considering they had to put that together last minute. The tour picked up momentum and even added another leg.

However, had Mick and John Joined them without Goat, then I believe it would have been far more successful as Fleetwood Mac.

And furthermore, I enjoyed the Billy/Rick shows far more than Mike and Neil shows. Rick and Billy shows were explosive, deep rich sound, wonderful energy, and they were a force. Billy even sounds better on LB songs.

The Mike and Neil shows had some great moments, but flat, flatter, flattest in so many areas. Gypsy made me want to leave. Christine actually played more keys than I expected, but I could barely hear her.
__________________
I would tell Christine Perfect, "You're Christine f***ing McVie, and don't you forget it!"
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On

Forum Jump


Billy Burnette - Billy Burnette [New CD] Rmst, Reissue picture

Billy Burnette - Billy Burnette [New CD] Rmst, Reissue

$15.38



Billy Burnette - Memphis in Manhattan ***PROMO*** 2006 Release picture

Billy Burnette - Memphis in Manhattan ***PROMO*** 2006 Release

$19.99



BILLY BURNETTE S/T Self-Titled  1980 Columbia In Shrink w/Hype Sticker Rock  NM picture

BILLY BURNETTE S/T Self-Titled 1980 Columbia In Shrink w/Hype Sticker Rock NM

$11.99



BILLY BURNETTE COLUMBIA RECORDS VINYL LP   167-21 picture

BILLY BURNETTE COLUMBIA RECORDS VINYL LP 167-21

$6.77



Billy Burnette, Tangled Up In Texas / Into The Storm, 7

Billy Burnette, Tangled Up In Texas / Into The Storm, 7" 45rpm, Vinyl NM

$12.99




All times are GMT -5. The time now is 11:49 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
© 1995-2003 Martin and Lisa Adelson, All Rights Reserved