include silver springs on rumours?

[visitas]

I can't decide if Silver Springs should be included as a track on Rumours in my itunes...

[RavenOfRhiannon]

I vote yes. On my Ipod, I have it in place of IDWK, not because it's a bad song, but SS is so much better, and IDWK was just a replacement song.

[WizNicks]

I think you should include them all. It has been released on all CDs released after 1997 (the DVD-A, Making of DVD and the 2CD reissure), so you should definetly add it on the spot where is was meant to be, after Songbird and before The Chain!

[chiliD]

Well, of course you should. I surely wasn't a Tusk song, now was it? Nor was it a Mirage tune. It was a last second scratch from Rumours and actually was on the 45 that was released 5 months prior to the album*, so, if it were MY iTunes folder, you're damned straight "Silver Springs" would be included.

*-and if not for the limited technology of the vinyl LP, the song very well WOULD HAVE BEEN on Rumours from the get-go.

Actually, I'd place it after "Go Your Own Way" and move "Songbird" to after "Gold Dust Woman" to close the album (as they closed their concerts).

[mylittledemon]

Originally Posted by chiliD

Well, of course you should. I surely wasn't a Tusk song, now was it? Nor was it a Mirage tune. It was a last second scratch from Rumours and actually was on the 45 that was released 5 months prior to the album*, so, if it were MY iTunes folder, you're damned straight "Silver Springs" would be included.

*-and if not for the limited technology of the vinyl LP, the song very well WOULD HAVE BEEN on Rumours from the get-go.

Actually, I'd place it after "Go Your Own Way" and move "Songbird" to after "Gold Dust Woman" to close the album (as they closed their concerts).

I couldn't have said it any better.

[jbrownsjr]

Originally Posted by chiliD

Well, of course you should. I surely wasn't a Tusk song, now was it? Nor was it a Mirage tune. It was a last second scratch from Rumours and actually was on the 45 that was released 5 months prior to the album*, so, if it were MY iTunes folder, you're damned straight "Silver Springs" would be included.

*-and if not for the limited technology of the vinyl LP, the song very well WOULD HAVE BEEN on Rumours from the get-go.

Actually, I'd place it after "Go Your Own Way" and move "Songbird" to after "Gold Dust Woman" to close the album (as they closed their concerts).

what he said

[SortaSavageLike]

I've never believed that "not enough room on the album" line for a second. Rumours is only 39 minutes long, for God's sakes...Mystery To Me was 48! I would have gotten rid of IDWTK, relegated it to B-side status, and replaced it with Silver Springs. I'll take a slight drop in the audio quality of the album by making it 1:20 longer, over a more noticeable drop in overall album quality, when a merely decent song takes the place of a really good one.

[RavenOfRhiannon]

Originally Posted by jbrownsjr

what he said

I dunno. I love that GDW closes the album. I think as a concert closer, Songbird works, but GDW really closed Rumours off with more high strung emotion.

[Villavic]

Originally Posted by RavenOfRhiannon

I love that GDW closes the album. I think as a concert closer, Songbird works, but GDW really closed Rumours off with more high strung emotion.

I agree.
Sometimes I have thought about moving Songbird to the end, but ending the album with GDW was really strong and emotional.

[aleuzzi]

Originally Posted by SortaSavageLike

I've never believed that "not enough room on the album" line for a second. Rumours is only 39 minutes long, for God's sakes...Mystery To Me was 48! I would have gotten rid of IDWTK, relegated it to B-side status, and replaced it with Silver Springs.

Neither have I. The reason SS was dropped in favor of IDWK may have been a bit more delicate. My theory is that in order to balance out the lead vocals in the running order, the group wanted another Lindsey lead vocal on the record, otherwise the album--particularly side two--would have been too "girl" focused. So, although SS is generally regarded a superior song to IDWK, the latter duet provided the right vocal balance that group of songs needed.

If my theory is correct, this would have been a delicate matter for Nicks, who wrote and writes more music than Buckingham.

[David]

Originally Posted by aleuzzi

Neither have I. The reason SS was dropped in favor of IDWK may have been a bit more delicate. My theory is that in order to balance out the lead vocals in the running order, the group wanted another Lindsey lead vocal on the record, otherwise the album--particularly side two--would have been too "girl" focused. So, although SS is generally regarded a superior song to IDWK, the latter duet provided the right vocal balance that group of songs needed.

If my theory is correct, this would have been a delicate matter for Nicks, who wrote and writes more music than Buckingham.

I grant your theory strong possibility. It's a theory that makes logical sense to me. But the idea -- expressed elsewhere & frequently -- that the band didn't include SPRINGS to hurt Stevie Nicks is asinine. The idea that a musician or an arranger would sacrifice his own exceptional achievement (and the achievement of SILVER SPRINGS in musicianship & arrangement is very high indeed) for some sort of illogical personal vendetta is preposterous. Those bandmates of Stevie's loved what they did on SILVER SPRINGS, & they had just as much interest in releasing it as she did.

Furthermore, the vocal harmonies on I DON'T WANT TO KNOW played a huge role in the band's reputation in those years as an amazing group of ensemble singers in the studio. See Robert Hilburn's comments on those harmonies in the L.A. Times in 1977, in which he stated that the Mac's singing far outpaced competitors (namely the Bee Gees & the Eagles) in terms of tightness & style.

[Musicman408]

I definitely think it should, especially if it is the 1977 version. It only makes sense.

[David]

Originally Posted by Musicman408

I definitely think it should, especially if it is the 1977 version. It only makes sense.

Beethoven laid the groundwork for this sort of back & forth, as follows:

Beethoven originally composed (& intended for publication) the grotesque Große Fuge (or Great Fugue) as the final movement of the Op. 130 string quartet. For several reasons (length, audience response, publishing revenue, perhaps aesthetic reasons), he agreed to requests to replace the Fugue with a lighter, shorter, & considerably less complex finale, & published the Fugue separately as a stand-alone.

These days, musicians often put the Fuge back into its original spot in performances or recordings of the string quartet. Many of them believe they are carrying out Beethoven's original intentions & wishes. But this isn't necessarily true in Beethoven's case, & putting SILVER SPRINGS into the RUMOURS running order isn't necessarily true to Fleetwood Mac's wishes. RUMOURS is RUMOURS is RUMOURS, I feel. SILVER was removed from the track list for this reason or that, but the aesthetic upshot is that the decision to do so was made & carried out, & aesthetic history cannot & should not be rewritten.

[JbbyStew86]

Originally Posted by RavenOfRhiannon

I dunno. I love that GDW closes the album. I think as a concert closer, Songbird works, but GDW really closed Rumours off with more high strung emotion.

i agree completely. its the most fitting end to that album that i see possible. though i do think that songbird is a good end to concerts.

[chiliD]

Originally Posted by David

Beethoven laid the groundwork for this sort of back & forth, as follows:

Beethoven originally composed (& intended for publication) the grotesque Große Fuge (or Great Fugue) as the final movement of the Op. 130 string quartet. For several reasons (length, audience response, publishing revenue, perhaps aesthetic reasons), he agreed to requests to replace the Fugue with a lighter, shorter, & considerably less complex finale, & published the Fugue separately as a stand-alone.

These days, musicians often put the Fuge back into its original spot in performances or recordings of the string quartet. Many of them believe they are carrying out Beethoven's original intentions & wishes. But this isn't necessarily true in Beethoven's case, & putting SILVER SPRINGS into the RUMOURS running order isn't necessarily true to Fleetwood Mac's wishes. RUMOURS is RUMOURS is RUMOURS, I feel. SILVER was removed from the track list for this reason or that, but the aesthetic upshot is that the decision to do so was made & carried out, & aesthetic history cannot & should not be rewritten.

To quote a line from Blazing Saddles:

"Blow it out your ass..."