Chris won't come back....

[PenguinHead]

Originally Posted by ThePenguin

I wasn't surprised by what Mick said either....but part of me wishes they'd just make some new music as the five of them. Screw touring if Chris is so turned off to it....just concentrate on the music, have fun w/ each other.

That would be the most feasible senario for Chris -- with regard to any future activity with Fleetwood Mac. At the very least she would "guest" on an album. At the most, she would contribute several songs and leave it at that (aka the "Time" album).

I find all the whining and wishing for her to get back with the band rather curious and annoying. The lady is 60-something years old...she's been there and done that. She has nothing to prove. I give her credit for honoring her evolution; think about it...do you expect to be doing the same thing for 40 years? Don't you think your focus and priorities might change over time? She has moved on folks!!

To me, it seems disrespectful (of her) and self-serving (not to mention a complete waste of time) to pine on and on over thoughts such as "will she come back?," "I wish she'll come back," "she might come back."

Get over it!! Or join the long-toothed fans who are still lamenting over the departure of Peter Green. "It's not the same...waah, waah, waah." If there is one constant factor...it is CHANGE. That is a key aspect of this band that makes them so intriguing!

[dissention]

Originally Posted by PenguinHead

To me, it seems disrespectful (of her) and self-serving (not to mention a complete waste of time) to pine on and on over thoughts such as "will she come back?," "I wish she'll come back," "she might come back."

Too bad humans are self-serving by nature. The sooner one accepts that, the better.

[macfan 57]

Originally Posted by PenguinHead

To me, it seems disrespectful (of her) and self-serving (not to mention a complete waste of time) to pine on and on over thoughts such as "will she come back?," "I wish she'll come back," "she might come back."

I don't think it's desrespectful or self-serving to be pining away for Chris to return to the band(especially in the Christine forum). I love it. It shows how hugely important she was to Fleetwood Mac over the years. When 1/3 of the rhythm section and 1/3 of the frontline of the band is gone, there's going to be a big, gaping hole. Obviously alot of other people have noticed this too. I also respect those Peter Green fans who pine away for that era too. Something tells me you wouldn't feel the same way if it had been Stevie Nicks who left Fleetwood Mac instead of Christine.

[HomerMcvie]

Originally Posted by GateandGarden

Only rock and ditz?

Come, Silver Girl

Originally Posted by GateandGarden

The most shocking thing to me is that you could say it has "no heart".

Well, I've always said that Chris was the HEART of FM. That's what I meant.
And, btw, this is the Chris forum. I don't go ditzin' around in Stevie's garden.

Originally Posted by GateandGarden

It's kind of like how I felt about the Mac when I first started listening. I really didn't care for anything Christine other than "Everywhere" or anything Lindsey other than "Go Your Own Way." I was all about Stevie but I gave it time and I'm a fan of the whole deal now. I'm glad I ditched my tunnel vision. In that post, you sound as though the only one you have any appreciation for is Christine.

You mean I'm not? Believe it or not, I started out as a Stevie fan!

Originally Posted by GateandGarden

I just can't understand your criticisms at all.

Well, maybe ditz was a little harsh, but what about Silver Girl?

[GateandGarden]

Originally Posted by HomerMcvie

Come, Silver Girl

Well, I've always said that Chris was the HEART of FM. That's what I meant.
And, btw, this is the Chris forum. I don't go ditzin' around in Stevie's garden.

You mean I'm not? Believe it or not, I started out as a Stevie fan!

Well, maybe ditz was a little harsh, but what about Silver Girl?

I agree with you about Silver Girl and Come. But yours seemed like a comment about the entire album, not a couple of what some would call the weakest tracks.

I agree with Amber on the heart thing. I don't think there is any member who the heart, but a heart. Or perhaps they represent various valves of one heart. I'm liking this imagery. The heart beats its strongest with all members present, but no one should be more important than the others. (Of course, if this were literal, the absence of the Christine valve would've killed the band if there was no artificial one implanted, but whatever). So the analogy is crappy.

[GateandGarden]

Originally Posted by macfan 57

I don't think it's desrespectful or self-serving to be pining away for Chris to return to the band(especially in the Christine forum). I love it. It shows how hugely important she was to Fleetwood Mac over the years. When 1/3 of the rhythm section and 1/3 of the frontline of the band is gone, there's going to be a big, gaping hole. Obviously alot of other people have noticed this too. I also respect those Peter Green fans who pine away for that era too. Something tells me you wouldn't feel the same way if it had been Stevie Nicks who left Fleetwood Mac instead of Christine.

I think it is self-serving to some degree, considering that Christine has said she doesn't want to come back. But I think we're entitled to bemoan that all we want on this message board. Maybe she appreciates it in a sense and considers it devotion and admiration rather than nagging. One can hope.

Well, that's assuming she even knows about it and how we all feel.

[HomerMcvie]

Originally Posted by GateandGarden

I agree with you about Silver Girl and Come. But yours seemed like a comment about the entire album, not a couple of what some would call the weakest tracks.

Well, it was 3AM when I posted. Maybe I wasn't thinking 100% clear .

Originally Posted by GateandGarden

I agree with Amber on the heart thing. I don't think there is any member who the heart, but a heart. Or perhaps they represent various valves of one heart. I'm liking this imagery. The heart beats its strongest with all members present, but no one should be more important than the others. (Of course, if this were literal, the absence of the Christine valve would've killed the band if there was no artificial one implanted, but whatever). So the analogy is crappy.

Chris's songs ARE poppy. That's WHAT's missing from SYW, IMO.

[GateandGarden]

Originally Posted by HomerMcvie

Well, it was 3AM when I posted. Maybe I wasn't thinking 100% clear .


Chris's songs ARE poppy. That's WHAT's missing from SYW, IMO.

Yeah, those 3AM posts can be a bitch. I can attest to that. I go back and read things and I'm like I said that? Why? Anyway, I think "Say You Will," "Steal Your Heart Away," and "Miranda" have a good poppy thing going on.

[HomerMcvie]

Steal Your Heart Away is my favorite song on SYW.

[macfan 57]

Originally Posted by GateandGarden

Maybe she appreciates it in a sense and considers it devotion and admiration rather than nagging. One can hope.[/COLOR]

Well, that's assuming she even knows about it and how we all feel.

Well, she's said that she really isn't into the internet or even her computer for that matter. She hates to type. So, I doubt that she even knows or cares about what's said on internet message boards. If she knew, I doubt that she'd think it was nagging. She might even be a little flattered if she knew that she hasn't been forgotten.

[GateandGarden]

Originally Posted by macfan 57

Well, she's said that she really isn't into the internet or even her computer for that matter. She hates to type. So, I doubt that she even knows or cares about what's said on internet message boards. If she knew, I doubt that she'd think it was nagging. She might even be a little flattered if she knew that she hasn't been forgotten.

I like to think she'd be very flattered, too.

[GateandGarden]

Originally Posted by HomerMcvie

Steal Your Heart Away is my favorite song on SYW.

It's one of my faves, too.

[Johnny Stew]

Originally Posted by dissention

I am, hence my adoration for Lindsey, Bowie, and Debbie. I love extremes, but Stevie's extreme schtick is too much in regards to Say You Will. Illume.Is.Just.Too.Much.

I'm all about Smile At You and Running Through the Garden and Goodbye Baby, which I consider to be pretty extreme Stevie tracks (along the lines of stuff she should do more often), but when she starts getting into her flowery schtick like Silver Girl and Say You Will and Thrown Down (and her childish Everybody Finds Out, albeit with a phenomenal vocal), I feel a wretch coming on.

You see it as "schtick"... I see it as "The Essence Of Stevie."

What one person reacts and responds to is wildly different from what "does it" for someone else, but it still amazes me when someone who is an admitted Stevie fan, severely dislikes an aspect of her that MAKES her, her.

To say, "I hate when Stevie gets into her flowery schtick" is like saying, "I hate when Lindsey gets into his twitchy, avant-garde schtick," or "I hate when Christine gets into her lovelorn-lady schtick."
It makes sense when it's coming from someone who doesn't like that particular artist, but when it comes from someone who's a fan, it baffles me.

Stevie has always been a hippy, dippy, flower-chicky, new-age California girl... among the many other things she seems to be.
It's not "schtick"... which implies that it's a forced gimmick that she puts on... it's part of who she is.

Admittedly, "Silver Girl" had to grow on me, but I think "Thrown Down" and "Say You Will" are terrific songs. The latter is so endlessly catchy, and an absolute gem in the traditional "Fleetwood Mac style"... two verses, and an upbeat, bouncy chorus (see "You Make Loving Fun," "Think About Me," "Over My Head," "Love In Store," "Come A Little Bit Closer," "Little Lies," "Everywhere," "As Long As You Follow," etc., etc., etc.).
I find it irresistible.

(Oh, and I still don't see how "Everybody Finds Out" is "childish"... Stevie PERFECTLY captures the typical, "I saw him first, he's MINE" attitude that MILLIONS of people exhibit. Or perhaps it's just the fact that people INSIST she HAS to be writing it autobiographically, and not as an observer of this love-triangle, trying to put herself into their shoes.
Stevie's own fans strait-jacket her more than anyone else could.)

Anyway, to get back on topic... I love Chris and I miss her influence on "The Fleetwood Mac Sound," but she's moved on and so should we.
It took me a while to realize it, but Fleetwood Mac has always been more than just any one member.

Besides, even when The Five were all working together, they still had some "misses."

[dissention]

Originally Posted by Johnny Stew

You see it as "schtick"... I see it as "The Essence Of Stevie."

What one person reacts and responds to is wildly different from what "does it" for someone else, but it still amazes me when someone who is an admitted Stevie fan, severely dislikes an aspect of her that MAKES her, her.

To say, "I hate when Stevie gets into her flowery schtick" is like saying, "I hate when Lindsey gets into his twitchy, avant-garde schtick," or "I hate when Christine gets into her lovelorn-lady schtick."
It makes sense when it's coming from someone who doesn't like that particular artist, but when it comes from someone who's a fan, it baffles me.

No one will understand everything in life, dear, no use trying.

Originally Posted by Johnny Stew

Stevie has always been a hippy, dippy, flower-chicky, new-age California girl... among the many other things she seems to be.

And it worked when she could pull it off well, but she can't these days as much as she used to; these days it comes across as schtick to me. She comes up with stuff like Silver Girl about someone famous living in a "harsh" world and it does nothing for me. She comes up Say You Will, a song that sounds incredibly forced, uninspired, and cliched. She comes up with Thrown Down, a song that is admittedly about Lindsey Buckingham...yet again. Or how about Illume? Some great lyrics, but she once again gets mired in the self-centeredness that has been permeating through her music since '89. I know you don't agree with me on any of these things and we've discussed them at great length many times over. You and I approach her music much differently, so we already start off at opposite ends of the field and neither of us will make a goal.

Originally Posted by Johnny Stew

It's not "schtick"... which implies that it's a forced gimmick that she puts on... it's part of who she is.

That's your opinion, I have a different one.

Originally Posted by Johnny Stew

Admittedly, "Silver Girl" had to grow on me, but I think "Thrown Down" and "Say You Will" are terrific songs. The latter is so endlessly catchy, and an absolute gem in the traditional "Fleetwood Mac style"... two verses, and an upbeat, bouncy chorus (see "You Make Loving Fun," "Think About Me," "Over My Head," "Love In Store," "Come A Little Bit Closer," "Little Lies," "Everywhere," "As Long As You Follow," etc., etc., etc.).
I find it irresistible.

Glad you like 'em. I love Save Me A Place and consider it a terrific song. It's endlessly fascinating. I find it irresistible. But you don't and that's your right.

Originally Posted by Johnny Stew

(Oh, and I still don't see how "Everybody Finds Out" is "childish"... Stevie PERFECTLY captures the typical, "I saw him first, he's MINE" attitude that MILLIONS of people exhibit. Or perhaps it's just the fact that people INSIST she HAS to be writing it autobiographically, and not as an observer of this love-triangle, trying to put herself into their shoes.
Stevie's own fans strait-jacket her more than anyone else could.)

I don't think it has anything to do with her and some ridiculous, magical affair she had with Lindsey like most people seem to. She could be writing about Bill Clinton and Monica Lewinsky for all I know, I don't give a fiddler's fart. The lyrics and the way they're shouted simply make it seem childish to me. You'd think that someone capable of writing such amazing lyrics could do a bit better than a cliched "You can't love him! You can't have him! I do have him!" It comes across as juvenile to me. Sue me.

Originally Posted by Johnny Stew

Anyway, to get back on topic... I love Chris and I miss her influence on "The Fleetwood Mac Sound," but she's moved on and so should we.
It took me a while to realize it, but Fleetwood Mac has always been more than just any one member.

The way some of you folks make it sound, it's as if we're banging down McVie's door and screaming at her to hook back up with the Mac or face utter annihilation. And we're just saying we miss her harmonies and pop fluff!

When all is said and done, at the end of the day, opinions are like assholes. Everyone's got one and everyone thinks everybody else's stinks.

[Johnny Stew]

Originally Posted by dissention

No one will understand everything in life, dear, no use trying.

I'm a Virgo... it's in our nature to investigate and thoroughly examine that which isn't readily understandable.

I've always loved contradictions within people... they fascinate me.

Originally Posted by dissention

Some great lyrics, but she once again gets mired in the self-centeredness that has been permeating through her music since '89.

She's been "self-centered" in her lyrics since Day One, when she wrote, "I've Loved And I've Lost."

Her lyrics, by and large, have ALWAYS been about her and her experiences... how something made her feel, how she coped (or didn't cope), and so on.

Which is why I don't get the notion that her lyrics suddenly became "self-centered" in 1989.

Originally Posted by dissention

I love Save Me A Place and consider it a terrific song. It's endlessly fascinating. I find it irresistible. But you don't and that's your right.

I'd love it if only it weren't so plodding and boring.

Originally Posted by dissention

The lyrics and the way they're shouted simply make it seem childish to me. You'd think that someone capable of writing such amazing lyrics could do a bit better than a cliched "You can't love him! You can't have him! I do have him!" It comes across as juvenile to me. Sue me.

Don't misunderstand me, I'm not saying you HAVE to like the song... all I'm saying is that I do believe, in my interpretation of it, that Stevie's writing about a childish relationship. She's writing about people demonstrating practically the biggest level of immaturity adults can possibly demonstrate: treating someone else as property that you have "rights" to.

So, yes, the characters in the song, and the whole "you can't love him, you can't have him" lyrics sound immature... but, to me, that's the point.

Originally Posted by dissention

The way some of you folks make it sound, it's as if we're banging down McVie's door and screaming at her to hook back up with the Mac or face utter annihilation. And we're just saying we miss her harmonies and pop fluff!

I'm not saying no one's allowed to miss Chris... I miss her too. I'm merely responding to the idea that Fleetwood Mac is no good without Christine.
Anyone can believe that if they'd like, but I disagree with it.

When Stevie left, I initially felt that Fleetwood Mac would just plain suck without her... then I got over myself and gave the current lineup a chance, instead of wishing for what it had been in the past. No, it "wasn't the same"... but then things change, and nothing ever stays exactly the way it was.

Originally Posted by dissention

When all is said and done, at the end of the day, opinions are like assholes. Everyone's got one and everyone thinks everybody else's stinks.

I don't think everyone's stinks.