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  #61  
Old 01-30-2005, 07:22 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HomerMcvie
Although, SYW will is tooooooooooooo long. How about 4 songs each?
I agree. Who says you have to cram as many songs on an album as can technically fit on it? Some of the greatest albums ever made ran under 50 minutes. Rumours did OK even though it is ONLY 40 minutes long.
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  #62  
Old 01-30-2005, 07:36 AM
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Originally Posted by Johnny Stew

First thing... 'Tusk,' 'Mirage' and 'Tango' all, at various moments throughout, sound like three solo albums put together.
'Tusk' most of all.
I agree to some extent, but I don't necessarily think this is a good thing. I LOVE Tusk, but I wish the entire band had played on Lindsey's songs. I enjoy most of his songs better live. Tango couldn't be helped since Stevie was not around when the album was recorded.
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  #63  
Old 01-30-2005, 07:38 AM
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Originally Posted by Johnny Stew
'Fleetwood Mac' and 'Rumours' are the only two of their albums together that really sound like the songs are coming from ONE band.
Exactly.
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  #64  
Old 01-30-2005, 07:55 AM
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Originally Posted by macfan 57
I think if Chris had been involved in the making of SYW, it would have sounded like a FLEETWOOD MAC album.
Oh boy...

Maybe you've lived on mars for 35 years but:

1) FM was originally a bluesrock outfit
2) Christine played as a session member on a few of Peter Green's FM albums
3) Since the departure of Green in 1970 FM has been on a continuous evolution: compare rumours to tusk & say you will, tusk to tango in the night...
4) She actually was involved, see the guest musician list of syw & SEE PREVIOUS POSTS

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  #65  
Old 01-30-2005, 09:56 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lindsey Jr.
Oh boy...

Maybe you've lived on mars for 35 years but:

1) FM was originally a bluesrock outfit
2) Christine played as a session member on a few of Peter Green's FM albums
3) Since the departure of Green in 1970 FM has been on a continuous evolution: compare rumours to tusk & say you will, tusk to tango in the night...
4) She actually was involved, see the guest musician list of syw & SEE PREVIOUS POSTS

I think macfan is well aware of the points above. and as far as I know she has never lived on Mars. Perhaps what she meant was that the end result of SYW, had Chris truly 'been involved'-- (JMHO but a vocal/keyboard part she did years ago which was stuck on a new album doesn't really constitute true 'involvement') might have been an album that was just more of a traditional FM sound, and one that those who love the chemistry of that fivesome would more fully appreciate.

Or maybe she doesn't mean that at all. But that's what I would take her comment to mean.

-Lis
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  #66  
Old 01-30-2005, 11:49 AM
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Originally Posted by ThePenguin
I think macfan is well aware of the points above. and as far as I know she has never lived on Mars. Perhaps what she meant was that the end result of SYW, had Chris truly 'been involved'-- (JMHO but a vocal/keyboard part she did years ago which was stuck on a new album doesn't really constitute true 'involvement') might have been an album that was just more of a traditional FM sound, and one that those who love the chemistry of that fivesome would more fully appreciate.

Or maybe she doesn't mean that at all. But that's what I would take her comment to mean.

-Lis
Yes, you're right Lis. Thanks. That's exactly what I meant. By the way, I've never ever lived on Mars, either.

Last edited by macfan 57; 01-30-2005 at 12:04 PM..
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  #67  
Old 01-30-2005, 01:24 PM
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Originally Posted by Lindsey Jr.
4) She actually was involved, see the guest musician list of syw & SEE PREVIOUS POSTS
Only by happenstance. She worked with Lindsey & Mick on some songs years ago, & the tracks she laid down were ported over, after many years, to a Fleetwood Mac album.
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  #68  
Old 01-30-2005, 01:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Johnny Stew
First thing... 'Tusk,' 'Mirage' and 'Tango' all, at various moments throughout, sound like three solo albums put together.
'Tusk' most of all.
To me, "Tusk" really sounds all of a piece in terms of instrumentation (the jazzy minimalism is evident throughout -- e.g., in the twiddling & meandering that bind keyboard & guitar parts on everything from "Sisters of the Moon" to "Over & Over" to "Never Forget") & ambience (virtually the same levels of reverb are set on about half the tracks, while the other half seem to have practically dry signals). "Tusk" just sounds totally like the same band to me all the way through -- not only that, but the same single year. I hear more immediate aspects of Fleetwood Mac's style in all the stuff on "Tusk" than I do on something like "Everybody Finds Out" or "Running Through the Garden" -- but that's because of deliberate approach to fashioning the tracks.
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Secondly, Lindsey's 'Gift Of Screws' material WAS recorded with Mick and John, with some contributions from Christine. Now, while it was INTENDED for a solo album, the members of Fleetwood Mac WERE present. And, in many ways, that makes his 'Say You Will' songs even more "Fleetwood Mac" than many of his 'Tusk' and 'Tango' tracks.
Excellent point. "Miranda" has more of Fleetwood Mac on it than "The Ledge" does.
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And while they worked on the instrumentation for many of the songs while Stevie was on the road, once she joined them in the studio, they all worked together closely for many, many months.
How many months did Stevie spend in the studio with the others? I get the feeling it wasn't all that long. What would she have done in there all that time? Spent the week catching spirits?
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All of which, in many ways, makes her tracks more "Fleetwood Mac" than her 'Mirage' and 'Tango' contributions.
I agree. Her songs on "Say You Will" are Fleetwood Mac tracks through & through. That's what makes something like "Illume" so exciting. We get to hear Fleetwood Mac pump!
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Sure, Lindsey (and maybe even Stevie) probably hoped that a new Fleetwood Mac album would assure more exposure than a solo release could, but I still don't agree with the notion that it was all a "marketing ploy" slapped together in haste.
I think, in Lindsey's case, it was, combined with a desire he had to work with these guys again. He loves them. C'mon, people. Wouldn't YOU want to record music with Mick Fleetwood & John McVie?! I mean, show some sense. There is no other rhythm section in the world that is as sensitive to the needs of a production-minded guitarist & songwriter.
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And I have to wonder if people would feel that way if Christine had been there too (let's not forget, after all, that her songs were slapped onto 'Time' at the "last minute").
I don't think Christine's inclusion would have affected the overall impact of the album. The elements that make the whole thing sound disjointed (too much time involved in laying down tracks, too much porting over, too much technology, too many outside cooks throwing salt & pepper into the brew) are things that Christine's presence wouldn't have diminished or altered anyway.
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It's a shame that Christine didn't take part in the recording of the album as a full-member. And, yes, it had a haphazard origin. But that it doesn't make it any less worthy of an album, IMO.
"Worthy"?
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  #69  
Old 01-30-2005, 01:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Johnny Stew
And I have no complaints about the length of the album. I'd rather have EIGHTEEN new tracks to digest after all these years, than only 12 or 13.
BUT, an album should make a cohesive statement. All the great ones DO. SYW doesn't. It challenges not only the listener's attention span, but also their ability to sit through a few sub-par songs.
The clunkers-I've maintained from day one- should have been put on the bonus disk. See, the REAL fans still get them all, BUT, the public gets a much more cohesive effort(which probably would've resulted in a few more sales). I, was given my deluxe SYW, by an aquaintence who heard Come and Murrow, and said, "David, you can HAVE this. It sucks". I only had to burn her a 20 cent copy of Greatest Hits in exchange!
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  #70  
Old 01-30-2005, 02:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HomerMcvie
BUT, an album should make a cohesive statement. All the great ones DO. SYW doesn't. It challenges not only the listener's attention span, but also their ability to sit through a few sub-par songs.
The clunkers-I've maintained from day one- should have been put on the bonus disk. See, the REAL fans still get them all, BUT, the public gets a much more cohesive effort(which probably would've resulted in a few more sales). I, was given my deluxe SYW, by an aquaintence who heard Come and Murrow, and said, "David, you can HAVE this. It sucks". I only had to burn her a 20 cent copy of Greatest Hits in exchange!
There's just one thing that I don't get: "christine is not with the band anymore, so we don't like FM anymore." A real fan doesn't say that, sorry.

If you're a CM fan fine, no problem and yeah, everybody's got their own opinion, very cool. But don't dislike something because of the abscence of one member.

And by the way, no one here seems to answer the fact that this band has been through a everlasting evolution. Then play on, rumours, tusk, tango in the night... the same ? no. A shame ? not at all. Some bands would've stopped after a key member would've left them. Not FM. For the money ?
I don't think they are poor...

Anyone here thinks the same ?
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Last edited by Lindsey Jr.; 01-30-2005 at 02:28 PM..
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  #71  
Old 01-30-2005, 02:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lindsey Jr.
There's just one thing that I don't get: "christine is not with the band anymore, so we don't like FM anymore." A real fan doesn't say that, sorry.

If you're a CM fan fine, no problem and yeah, everybody's got their own opinion, very cool. But don't dislike something because of the abscence of one member.
You quote me, yet there's nothing in the quote inferring what you SAY I'm saying!!!!! HELLOOOOOOOOO!
I didn't say I didn't like it. I said my FRIEND didn't like it, and gave it to me. Do you understand the difference?
Get your **** straight, Pedro!
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  #72  
Old 01-30-2005, 05:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HomerMcvie
I think if you would take Chris' 6 best songs off of ITM, and replaced the worst 6 clunkers on SYW, you would have a CLASSIC FM album.
Although, SYW will is tooooooooooooo long. How about 4 songs each?
Cool...I never thought about that! What 4 of Lindsey's/Stevie's/Christine's would you choose?
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  #73  
Old 01-30-2005, 05:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by David
I hear more immediate aspects of Fleetwood Mac's style in all the stuff on "Tusk" than I do on something like "Everybody Finds Out" or "Running Through the Garden" -- but that's because of deliberate approach to fashioning the tracks.
It's true that "Running Through The Garden," "Murrow," "Everybody Finds Out" and "Come," don't instantly bring to mind the Fleetwood Mac Style... but, to my ears, I think they're every bit as much "Fleetwood Mac" as songs like "The Ledge," "I Know I'm Not Wrong," and "Big Love" (to name a few).

It's that branching off thing that they've done since 1979... tracks that could easily fit into one of their respective solo albums, but, by their inclusion on a Mac album, help to expand the horizon of the band's collective sound.

I'm not implying you feel this way, but perhaps that's what many fans have bristled about... the fact that, without Christine to "soften" things, the album doesn't always have the instant and comfortable familiarity that Fleetwood Mac's previous albums always possessed. Which apparently made it a little easier for the band to get away with throwing an offbeat track or two into the running order.



Quote:
Originally Posted by David
How many months did Stevie spend in the studio with the others? I get the feeling it wasn't all that long. What would she have done in there all that time? Spent the week catching spirits?
She's going to have a harder time living down that spirit catcher than she's had living down some of those 80s outfits!

Without any concrete data, any comments I could make about Stevie's studio time for 'Say You Will,' would be pure conjecture.
Based on interviews though, it seems that once she finally joined them she was there as much as possible up until she left for Hawaii and her and Lindsey had long-distance arguments about the track listing.

I didn't mean to imply that I thought she was there every waking hour though. No one in Fleetwood Mac, with the sole exception of Lindsey, EVER seems to log in that many hours!


Quote:
Originally Posted by David
"Worthy"?
It's been implied... and sometimes downright stated... that 'Say You Will' is somehow undeserving of being called a Fleetwood Mac album, and that, without Christine, it "doesn't really count."
Some fans seem to feel it unworthy of the Mac name... which I think is a bit of a myopic view.
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  #74  
Old 01-30-2005, 05:39 PM
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Originally Posted by Lindsey Jr.
There's just one thing that I don't get: "christine is not with the band anymore, so we don't like FM anymore." A real fan doesn't say that, sorry.
Phooey.

If the necessary ingredients aren't thrown into the recipe, it's not going to taste the same and some just may not care for it one bit.
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  #75  
Old 01-30-2005, 05:41 PM
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Originally Posted by HomerMcvie
Get your **** straight, Pedro!
ROTFLMAO

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