Lindsey Buckingham gets kicked out of Fleetwood Mac and the band gets better?

[bombaysaffires]

Originally Posted by DownOnRodeo

Aha!!
This proves that the Ellen performance (unlike the 100% live-to-air Today Show performances) was operated on during editing.

They spent SO much dedicated time on rehearsing and post-mixing, and yet half the band was still completely inaudible???

that was the first thing that popped into my head as soon as I read that line as well.

Why would they hang around? to FIX things!!

This points to how bad the SN team has gotten. They also ask for copies of audio recordings of interviews she does, and then go through them and tell reporters which parts to edit out. I don't have time to find it now but one reporter wrote about it.

She's OBSESSED with herself. I mean, she always has been....who else stays up all night taking pics of themselves and then spending countless hours hand tinting and tweaking them oh, wait....Kim Kardashian.... except you know what? Kim K has managed to get married and have multiple children as well. And she has family members who (for better or worse reasons) will call her out on stuff. Stevie has her career, and that's it. Sad. She really is on her way to becoming Norma Desmond.

[David]

Originally Posted by bombaysaffires

She's OBSESSED with herself. I mean, she always has been....who else stays up all night taking pics of themselves and then spending countless hours hand tinting and tweaking them oh, wait....Kim Kardashian.... except you know what? Kim K has managed to get married and have multiple children as well. And she has family members who (for better or worse reasons) will call her out on stuff. Stevie has her career, and that's it. Sad. She really is on her way to becoming Norma Desmond.

Norma Desmond, Miss Havisham, Sylvia Browne, Elizabeth Taylor. The references aren't very flattering—not the way they're intended.

Everything Stevie says and does is forced through her own gills. She romanticizes herself. She writes about other women real and fictional in the third person—Rhiannon, Mabel Normand, Garbo, Julia, Cecilia, sisters of the moon (or the moon and her sisters). But everybody knows those "characters" are really Stevie. That's why fans all interpret Stevie's hundreds of songs autobiographically. Those third-person princesses suffer just like Stevie. They're waifs with flowing golden hair trapped in ancient windswept castles, and it's all metaphorical for Stevie Nicks and her life circumstances. (Notice how the female faces in all the Maxfield Parrish paintings all look like the same girl?)

Back in her heyday, concert critics used to say the same thing about her in every review: "She has shed some, though far from all, of the spacey narcissism that has made her something of a caricature in rock," "Stripped of all her dying swan poses and faerie queen pretensions, Nicks was riveting," and so on. I know them all practically from memory. One of them wrote, "She is simply too flighty and fluttery to command a stage." The rock press accurately called out her narcissism back in the day, and we Macheads got really pissed off at them. (Treat yourself to the old reviews in the Blue Letter Archives.) But they were right. Stevie can't talk about anything without referring back to herself—the movies she loves, the movie stars she believes she resembles, the career choices other people make, the other members of Fleetwood Mac or Lady Antebellum or the Heartbreakers or any other band she takes a shine to, or those dozens of younger singer-songwriters she promotes in creepy ways, like Vanessa Carlton. Stevie thinks they're all younger versions of her.

She is obsessed with herself to a degree that seems to indicate a certain degree of pathology. It was compelling in a 30-year-old, but it seems twisted or creepy in a 70-year-old. Last year's 60 Minutes piece on Stevie and Chrissie Hynde was intended to celebrate two tough old rock stars, but the incongruity in their respective psychiatric health left me with a sour stomach and a crabbed fatigue. Chrissie sounded like a normal, healthy post-Freudian woman ("Why should I care if other people don't like the way I talk about my rape? I did some stupid sh|t when I was younger. I'm not here to give my critics the warm fuzzies."), and there was Stevie, locked in her self-worship, romanticizing her every golden curl, engaging in ditzy, pre-Freudian Barbie doll commentary. What other 60-year-old woman was moved beyond description by the Twilight movies? She has something wrong with her.

[jwd]

Originally Posted by David

Norma Desmond, Miss Havisham, Sylvia Browne, Elizabeth Taylor. The references aren't very flattering—not the way they're intended.

Everything Stevie says and does is forced through her own gills. She romanticizes herself. She writes about other women real and fictional in the third person—Rhiannon, Mabel Normand, Garbo, Julia, Cecilia, sisters of the moon (or the moon and her sisters). But everybody knows those "characters" are really Stevie. That's why fans all interpret Stevie's hundreds of songs autobiographically. Those third-person princesses suffer just like Stevie. They're waifs with flowing golden hair trapped in ancient windswept castles, and it's all metaphorical for Stevie Nicks and her life circumstances. (Notice how the female faces in all the Maxfield Parrish paintings all look like the same girl?)

Back in her heyday, concert critics used to say the same thing about her in every review: "She has shed some, though far from all, of the spacey narcissism that has made her something of a caricature in rock," "Stripped of all her dying swan poses and faerie queen pretensions, Nicks was riveting," and so on. I know them all practically from memory. One of them wrote, "She is simply too flighty and fluttery to command a stage." The rock press accurately called out her narcissism back in the day, and we Macheads got really pissed off at them. (Treat yourself to the old reviews in the Blue Letter Archives.) But they were right. Stevie can't talk about anything without referring back to herself—the movies she loves, the movie stars she believes she resembles, the career choices other people make, the other members of Fleetwood Mac or Lady Antebellum or the Heartbreakers or any other band she takes a shine to, or those dozens of younger singer-songwriters she promotes in creepy ways, like Vanessa Carlton. Stevie thinks they're all younger versions of her.

She is obsessed with herself to a degree that seems to indicate a certain degree of pathology. It was compelling in a 30-year-old, but it seems twisted or creepy in a 70-year-old. Last year's 60 Minutes piece on Stevie and Chrissie Hynde was intended to celebrate two tough old rock stars, but the incongruity in their respective psychiatric health left me with a sour stomach and a crabbed fatigue. Chrissie sounded like a normal, healthy post-Freudian woman ("Why should I care if other people don't like the way I talk about my rape? I did some stupid sh|t when I was younger. I'm not here to give my critics the warm fuzzies."), and there was Stevie, locked in her self-worship, romanticizing her every golden curl, engaging in ditzy, pre-Freudian Barbie doll commentary. What other 60-year-old woman was moved beyond description by the Twilight movies? She has something wrong with her.

Excellent post David! You summed up our long lost Queen so well.

[sodascouts]

Originally Posted by David

...those dozens of younger singer-songwriters she promotes in creepy ways, like Vanessa Carlton. Stevie thinks they're all younger versions of her.

I'd never thought of it that way, but now that you mention it... you're right.

What other 60-year-old woman was moved beyond description by the Twilight movies?

Because Bella reminded her of herself.

Now that you've laid it all out like that... it's a pretty depressing read.

[Nathan]

Originally Posted by David

Norma Desmond, Miss Havisham, Sylvia Browne, Elizabeth Taylor. The references aren't very flattering—not the way they're intended.

Everything Stevie says and does is forced through her own gills. She romanticizes herself. She writes about other women real and fictional in the third person—Rhiannon, Mabel Normand, Garbo, Julia, Cecilia, sisters of the moon (or the moon and her sisters). But everybody knows those "characters" are really Stevie. That's why fans all interpret Stevie's hundreds of songs autobiographically. Those third-person princesses suffer just like Stevie. They're waifs with flowing golden hair trapped in ancient windswept castles, and it's all metaphorical for Stevie Nicks and her life circumstances. (Notice how the female faces in all the Maxfield Parrish paintings all look like the same girl?)

Back in her heyday, concert critics used to say the same thing about her in every review: "She has shed some, though far from all, of the spacey narcissism that has made her something of a caricature in rock," "Stripped of all her dying swan poses and faerie queen pretensions, Nicks was riveting," and so on. I know them all practically from memory. One of them wrote, "She is simply too flighty and fluttery to command a stage." The rock press accurately called out her narcissism back in the day, and we Macheads got really pissed off at them. (Treat yourself to the old reviews in the Blue Letter Archives.) But they were right. Stevie can't talk about anything without referring back to herself—the movies she loves, the movie stars she believes she resembles, the career choices other people make, the other members of Fleetwood Mac or Lady Antebellum or the Heartbreakers or any other band she takes a shine to, or those dozens of younger singer-songwriters she promotes in creepy ways, like Vanessa Carlton. Stevie thinks they're all younger versions of her.

She is obsessed with herself to a degree that seems to indicate a certain degree of pathology. It was compelling in a 30-year-old, but it seems twisted or creepy in a 70-year-old. Last year's 60 Minutes piece on Stevie and Chrissie Hynde was intended to celebrate two tough old rock stars, but the incongruity in their respective psychiatric health left me with a sour stomach and a crabbed fatigue. Chrissie sounded like a normal, healthy post-Freudian woman ("Why should I care if other people don't like the way I talk about my rape? I did some stupid sh|t when I was younger. I'm not here to give my critics the warm fuzzies."), and there was Stevie, locked in her self-worship, romanticizing her every golden curl, engaging in ditzy, pre-Freudian Barbie doll commentary. What other 60-year-old woman was moved beyond description by the Twilight movies? She has something wrong with her.

Well said, as usual David.

I felt the same way about that 60 Minutes piece. I was also front row center for the 24 Karat Gold Tour, and the difference between Chrissie and Stevie's musical styles, personalities, and interactions with the crowd, was equally stark in that setting, and in exactly the way that you describe.

"She has something wrong with her." Yes, for sure she does. I think that it has a great deal to do with (1) the small mountain of cocaine she spent ten years shoveling into her face, (2) the brain rot that resulted, (3) the pharmacy of pills she ingested over the better part of a decade, (4) far, far too much money, and (5), a "team" (to use their corporate lingo) of handmaidens and homegirls that are probably a little bit overindulgent.

She's also old.

But the fact that she has something wrong with her isn't new. That paper that someone wrote for a college film class likening her to Norma Desmond (right down to her fashion sense) was done in the mid-90s, during the Street Angel-era. So that's been 25 years. In my view, the likeness between SN and Desmond began even earlier - around 1987 or so, after she had gotten off the blow, and record sales had slowed.

Jim from Boston (SaidSomething is his username) has some fantastic stories about serving her in restaurants during that time period. I will PM him to see if he would like to chime in for those who haven't heard them.

For me, the Desmond connection has always been part of the appeal and the make-up of the whole package. She is at least half, and perhaps wholly, off of her rocker, and has been for some time. Her relationship with reality or lack thereof is one of the many contradictions that play a part in her image, and keep people engaged. If we remain tuned in, we might be able to figure her out completely. I call it the Stevie Nicks Scavenger Hunt, and I think it's the puzzle that many fans are intent on putting together. Is she crazy? Or just rich and eccentric? Or both? Is she strong or fragile? Impassioned performer or just high as a bat? Gifted writer or lifter of Oscar Wilde, the Spinners, Joni Mitchel, et al? Controlling diva or, humble woman who is aware that she got lucky by virtue of destiny and Lindsey Buckingham? An artist living life on her own new-wave feminist terms or, a giant B. who is so insufferably self-involved that she was unable to maintain a marriage or have children?

I subscribe to the theory of "I don't know."

[David]

Originally Posted by Nathan

"She has something wrong with her." Yes, for sure she does. I think that it has a great deal to do with (1) the small mountain of cocaine she spent ten years shoveling into her face, (2) the brain rot that resulted, (3) the pharmacy of pills she ingested over the better part of a decade, (4) far, far too much money, and (5), a "team" (to use their corporate lingo) of handmaidens and homegirls that are probably a little bit overindulgent.

She's also old.

That's really why it feels bad to slag off on her. But I should add I still love her no matter how remote she feels from those qualities that I originally found so compelling.

For me, the Desmond connection has always been part of the appeal and the make-up of the whole package. She is at least half, and perhaps wholly, off of her rocker, and has been for some time. Her relationship with reality or lack thereof is one of the many contradictions that play a part in her image, and keep people engaged. If we remain tuned in, we might be able to figure her out completely. I call it the Stevie Nicks Scavenger Hunt, and I think it's the puzzle that many fans are intent on putting together. Is she crazy? Or just rich and eccentric? Or both? Is she strong or fragile?Impassioned performer or just high as a bat? Gifted writer or lifter of Oscar Wilde, the Spinners, Joni Mitchell, et al? Controlling diva or humble woman who is aware that she got lucky by virtue of destiny and Lindsey Buckingham? An artist living life on her own new-wave feminist terms or a giant B. who is so insufferably self-involved that she was unable to maintain a marriage or have children?

Yes and yes, Nate, absolutely. And the fact that she started in this business as a genuinely warm and considerate girl keeps her within reach. No matter how odd she gets, there's always that little piece of Stevie Nicks at the very center, amazingly enough. I haven't seen her live since 2003, but the videos of her singing Wild Heart and Bella Donna and Moonlight last year contain those glimpses of Stevie Nicks. She hasn't lost it, but she has done a lot to obscure it. Some people's narcissism can be fascinating, but the fascination inevitably wanes over time.

[button-lip]

Originally Posted by David

That's really why it feels bad to slag off on her. But I should add I still love her no matter how remote she feels from those qualities that I originally found so compelling.

She didn't have any problem in breaking a fan's heart, and I'm talking about Lindsey's daughter, Leelee. She's always talking about her fans and "oh, how much they mean to me!". Yet, she was so determined to kick Lindsey out of the band that she didn't even care what his daughter, one of her fans, might feel.

So, no, I don't feel bad to slag her off. She clearly didn't care about the consequences of her actions and how many people she hurt in the process.

[elle]

Originally Posted by David

And the fact that she started in this business as a genuinely warm and considerate girl keeps her within reach. No matter how odd she gets, there's always that little piece of Stevie Nicks at the very center

now you sound like Lindsey Buckingham.

[dreamsunwind]

Originally Posted by David

Norma Desmond, Miss Havisham, Sylvia Browne, Elizabeth Taylor. The references aren't very flattering—not the way they're intended.

Everything Stevie says and does is forced through her own gills. She romanticizes herself. She writes about other women real and fictional in the third person—Rhiannon, Mabel Normand, Garbo, Julia, Cecilia, sisters of the moon (or the moon and her sisters). But everybody knows those "characters" are really Stevie. That's why fans all interpret Stevie's hundreds of songs autobiographically. Those third-person princesses suffer just like Stevie. They're waifs with flowing golden hair trapped in ancient windswept castles, and it's all metaphorical for Stevie Nicks and her life circumstances. (Notice how the female faces in all the Maxfield Parrish paintings all look like the same girl?)

Back in her heyday, concert critics used to say the same thing about her in every review: "She has shed some, though far from all, of the spacey narcissism that has made her something of a caricature in rock," "Stripped of all her dying swan poses and faerie queen pretensions, Nicks was riveting," and so on. I know them all practically from memory. One of them wrote, "She is simply too flighty and fluttery to command a stage." The rock press accurately called out her narcissism back in the day, and we Macheads got really pissed off at them. (Treat yourself to the old reviews in the Blue Letter Archives.) But they were right. Stevie can't talk about anything without referring back to herself—the movies she loves, the movie stars she believes she resembles, the career choices other people make, the other members of Fleetwood Mac or Lady Antebellum or the Heartbreakers or any other band she takes a shine to, or those dozens of younger singer-songwriters she promotes in creepy ways, like Vanessa Carlton. Stevie thinks they're all younger versions of her.

She is obsessed with herself to a degree that seems to indicate a certain degree of pathology. It was compelling in a 30-year-old, but it seems twisted or creepy in a 70-year-old. Last year's 60 Minutes piece on Stevie and Chrissie Hynde was intended to celebrate two tough old rock stars, but the incongruity in their respective psychiatric health left me with a sour stomach and a crabbed fatigue. Chrissie sounded like a normal, healthy post-Freudian woman ("Why should I care if other people don't like the way I talk about my rape? I did some stupid sh|t when I was younger. I'm not here to give my critics the warm fuzzies."), and there was Stevie, locked in her self-worship, romanticizing her every golden curl, engaging in ditzy, pre-Freudian Barbie doll commentary. What other 60-year-old woman was moved beyond description by the Twilight movies? She has something wrong with her.

This is honestly everything I've ever thought about Stevie, but never could find a way to describe, put into words perfectly.

[Nathan]

Originally Posted by bombaysaffires

This points to how bad the SN team has gotten. They also ask for copies of audio recordings of interviews she does, and then go through them and tell reporters which parts to edit out. I don't have time to find it now but one reporter wrote about it.

She's OBSESSED with herself. I mean, she always has been....who else stays up all night taking pics of themselves and then spending countless hours hand tinting and tweaking them oh, wait....Kim Kardashian.... except you know what? Kim K has managed to get married and have multiple children as well. And she has family members who (for better or worse reasons) will call her out on stuff. Stevie has her career, and that's it. Sad. She really is on her way to becoming Norma Desmond.

Which part of this is news to you?

And you can say that it's "sad" that the woman doesn't have a family in the traditional, nuclear sense of the word but that's really just your opinion. Hers is a life lived on her own terms, with more freedom than you or I can comprehend, as a result of her excessive wealth. I don't know this firsthand but my guess is that with her level of access, domestic bliss might seem a little unimportant.

Also, if I recall correctly, Kim Kardashian is famous because of a sex tape.