Is an album without Stevie possible to be released?

[Macfanforever]

If she does not tour with them .I probably would skip out going to see them with out her.The show will be boring to me.

[elle]

Originally Posted by Macfanforever

If she does not tour with them .I probably would skip out going to see them with out her.The show will be boring to me.

and that's ok.

same thing as i skip Stevie solo tours as she is boring to me even in the FM context.

there will always be a FM 5 tour in 2018 for anybody who wants to see all 5.

[Karissa]

The thought crossed my mind this morning: is it at all possible that this is just a calculated Stevie power play? Meaning that if she goes on record saying this, will the band (especially Lindsey) be willing to make concessions they otherwise wouldn't have in order to get her back? Maybe that's more production control, more say in tracklisting, more WHATEVER she wants? Getting Lindsey to beg her &/or relinquish his precious control would be delicious for Stevie, & we all know it.

I still stand by my previous comments about Stevie having to do what's psychologically best for her, but there is also that aspect of knowing she has Lindsey by the balls & is basically going, "So what now, Linds?" with an evil smirk on her face. For all her beautiful, loving, warm, sensitive qualities, Stevie is also the queen of pettiness. I imagine even if her goals here are truly to protect herself/her heart/her art, she's getting off on controlling this.

Is it possible, I guess, that they make the concessions she wants & she records? The album sales comment is so tired-- she's been saying it since 1981, but keeps releasing albums, so it hasn't stopped her yet. I suspect this is all about forcing Lindsey to put her in the driver's seat. If he gives into that, if she essentially "wins," is it possible we get the album?

[bwboy]

Originally Posted by elle

no no, they need to tour new music without her. otherwise it will just be yet another stupid expensive GH FM tour. we need to hear at least 6 new songs, as has been the tradition with each new LB or FM album in the more recent times. and SN's timeline puts FM 5 tour in mid 2018 time frame.

Well, the Mirage tour only had 4 new songs, the Tango tour only had 4 new songs, The Dance tour had only 4 new songs, and the EP tour only had 2 new songs. Ironically, the Say You Will tour had a lot of new songs, but the album wasn't that strong, unfortunately.

I wasn't trying to be picky, really just pointing out that even a new album might only have 4 new songs on the tour.

[FuzzyPlum]

Originally Posted by Macfanforever

If she does not tour with them .I probably would skip out going to see them with out her.The show will be boring to me.

I'll have your ticket, Skip. Thanks

Originally Posted by Karissa

The thought crossed my mind this morning: is it at all possible that this is just a calculated Stevie power play? Meaning that if she goes on record saying this, will the band (especially Lindsey) be willing to make concessions they otherwise wouldn't have in order to get her back?

No doubts it's partly about power, but not entirely. Reading between the lines of everything that's been intimated it sounds as if they've already bent over backwards and ceded to her in order to get her to agree to record. I dont think she's holding out- I think she's genuine, hence her decision to extend her tour. I had held some hope by the start of the new year she'd be all FM, but nope. I'm all up for a foursome (oo'er) but I'd even hope they pushed it back in her face by bringing in a new member (not gonna happen).

Originally Posted by bwboy

Well, the Mirage tour only had 4 new songs, the Tango tour only had 4 new songs, The Dance tour had only 4 new songs, and the EP tour only had 2 new songs. Ironically, the Say You Will tour had a lot of new songs, but the album wasn't that strong, unfortunately.

I wasn't trying to be picky, really just pointing out that even a new album might only have 4 new songs on the tour.

Tango was an anomaly as one third of the songwriting team wasn't present for the tour. To make up for it there were plenty of older songs that were brought in so at least the setlist was fresh. The Dance tour wasn't on the back of a full album but still had new songs. Additionally there were other rarely played songs such as Farmers Daughter and Go Insane. The FM Live tour in 2013 also wasnt on the back of a full album. However, they did play half of the EP material (rather glad they didnt play the rest).

[Macfan4life]

Originally Posted by Macfanforever

If she does not tour with them .I probably would skip out going to see them with out her.The show will be boring to me.

You need to change your name to Steviefanforever then

[elle]

Originally Posted by Karissa

I suspect this is all about forcing Lindsey to put her in the driver's seat. If he gives into that, if she essentially "wins," is it possible we get the album?

we are getting the album. (just not with SN)

i think the power play and emotional push/pull you are describing is probably a big part of the picture, but the missing part is that she seems musically dry / uninspired since SYW. if artist has no inspiration to create new music, why would they have an urge to release it?

the other problem i see with your scenario is that it would push FM album back even more. she would not be able to seriously work on it before april 2017. by that time we can already have an album and Lindsey/Christine tour dates!

[elle]

Originally Posted by bwboy

Well, the Mirage tour only had 4 new songs, the Tango tour only had 4 new songs, The Dance tour had only 4 new songs, and the EP tour only had 2 new songs. Ironically, the Say You Will tour had a lot of new songs, but the album wasn't that strong, unfortunately.

I wasn't trying to be picky, really just pointing out that even a new album might only have 4 new songs on the tour.

nope, that's why i specifically said more recent LB and FM tours. recent as in 21st century. LB always plays 6 new songs when touring his new albums, at least in this century - 6 on UTS tour, 6 on GOS tour, and 6 on SWS tour. i mean i'd like 8 at least, but oh well.

FM played 6 new songs on SYW tour, i believe. (and songs on SYW are some of the strongest songs rumours era FM released, but they are definitely not to everyone's taste.) considering EP had only 4 songs all together, 2 is a pretty fair number!

[Karissa]

Originally Posted by elle

the other problem i see with your scenario is that it would push FM album back even more. she would not be able to seriously work on it before april 2017. by that time we can already have an album and Lindsey/Christine tour dates!

Oh, I totally agree with you! I would be thrilled to hear whatever LB/CM, etc. have been writing/recording. If this is Stevie's bottom line, there's not much they can do about it, & I think they would be pleasantly surprised by how many people would pay for a duo or foursome tour.

If Stevie is really onboard for a mid-2018 tour, fine. I'll still pay out the ass, even if it's a Greatest Hits tour. My hope is that the rest of them are as close to finished with this album as they say they are, & just get the ball rolling on a release & tour without SN in 2017. Rather than letting her jerk them around for her own self-gratification, they should just say "Okay, cool, girl-- talk to you in a year."

I love Stevie to death, but she thinks she's got more power than she does here. Yeah, they'll have to change some things up, but they're talented-- they'll do it.

[elle]

Originally Posted by Karissa

Oh, I totally agree with you! I would be thrilled to hear whatever LB/CM, etc. have been writing/recording. If this is Stevie's bottom line, there's not much they can do about it, & I think they would be pleasantly surprised by how many people would pay for a duo or foursome tour.

If Stevie is really onboard for a mid-2018 tour, fine. I'll still pay out the ass, even if it's a Greatest Hits tour.

and ideally, they all will move on from insisting on FM 5 GH set-in-the-stone setlist and can finally mix it up with some deep cuts (how many years now have i been calling for WATL?????).

so we can get all 3 things: a new album at the start of 2017, hear those new songs live in 2017, and then FM 5 tour with deep cuts in 2018. how great would that be!?!?!

[secondhandchain]

SO sick of her whining. Quit all ready. If this album sounds like any of the stuff LB and CM did on Tango (including their great b sides) I'll be happy. That's sales BS has been going on for years and then she releases an album. To be perfectly honest at this point in their creativity I would rather Stevie leave then Chris. Chris is open to trying things, where as Stevie wants that straight ahead BORING AS F production.

[Tango]

I don't understand the people that would NOT see a show where Stevie wasn't there, nor buy an album that Stevie isn't on. I've seen Lindsey on tour at least a dozen times. I think a tour with Lindsey and Christine would be amazing! I wish Fleetwood Mac would proceed with the album and smaller venue tour. I'm in! Why are we having this discussion at all? Christine said the smaller tour IS going to happen and Stevie would join them later for a fairwell tour. That should make everyone happy. Who isn't happy with that? I took that as a sincere plan.

[24karatstevie]

Originally Posted by Tango

I don't understand the people that would NOT see a show where Stevie wasn't there, nor buy an album that Stevie isn't on. I've seen Lindsey on tour at least a dozen times. I think a tour with Lindsey and Christine would be amazing! I wish Fleetwood Mac would proceed with the album and smaller venue tour. I'm in! Why are we having this discussion at all? Christine said the smaller tour IS going to happen and Stevie would join them later for a fairwell tour. That should make everyone happy. Who isn't happy with that? I took that as a sincere plan.

I have to agree with you on this. This seems to be the solution that makes everyone happy. Personally, the main draw of Fleetwood Mac for me is Stevie (and also Chris) so I have honestly been extremely happy with her choice to tour solo and extend this tour. This was my first time ever seeing Stevie and it was one of the best experiences of my life. Stevie is on fire right now and she seems much happier. However, I would also like to hear the music from Chris and Lindsey. And while I probably wouldn't attend a show without Stevie there, I understand that there are many who would. My only wish is that there is one big final world tour that is a mix between greatest hits and some old album deep cuts since I am a newer fan and have yet to see Fleetwood Mac live.

[SteveMacD]

I don't think it's a matter of Stevie wanting power and I don't think she's reluctant to work with anyone in particular. I think IYD being a commercial failure is coloring Stevie's position much more than anything else (i.e. SYW). She poured her heart into that album and worked very hard to promote it.

By comparison, 24KG didn't sell that many copies, but she didn't exactly put that much effort in it: It was comprised of old demos she found on the internet, it only took a few weeks to record, and she was already signed to a label.

I think she feels that recording an album with Fleetwood Mac would be a complicated undertaking where the overall returns wouldn't justify the effort they put into the album. Lindsey's meticulousness takes a lot of time and energy, which is usually when the interpersonal dynamics become an issue. When it's finished, assuming the personal issues haven't gotten out of hand, what next? They don't have a label, so the logistics of how to release it presents another challenge which could further complicate the working dynamics within the band. And for what? Another album that won't sell?

FWIW, Ozzy recently said something very similar about not wanting to make a new album because people don't buy albums anymore, so Stevie isn't alone in that sentiment.

However, I don't think any of that matters to anyone else in Fleetwood Mac. I don't think the others really care about sales at this point. They want to be a creative entity. That was the primary reason for Christine coming back.

[dreamsunwind]

Originally Posted by SteveMacD

I don't think it's a matter of Stevie wanting power and I don't think she's reluctant to work with anyone in particular. I think IYD being a commercial failure is coloring Stevie's position much more than anything else (i.e. SYW). She poured her heart into that album and worked very hard to promote it.

I think you have a point. When she was promoting the documentary she made several comments about how she was heartbroken that her record was 'dead' and then Dave Grohl told her that she should release what she filmed in order to 'save' it.
I feel like that's the main thing that's making her not want to put the time and effort into recording. Lindsey in the studio is a pain for her because of his pace and their clashing directions but if she thought the record would sell, I truly believe she would suck it up and do it.