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  #1  
Old 01-24-2003, 10:06 PM
rhiannon16 rhiannon16 is offline
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Default best song by Jeremy

I haven't heard all of his songs yet, but so I think Cool Breeze is the best.
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  #2  
Old 01-24-2003, 10:37 PM
Doctor Brown Doctor Brown is offline
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Hi rhiannon16!

I just had to post to this since I am a long time fan of Jeremy.

I read something on one of the other threads about someone saying that they thought that Peter's songs on "In the Skies" sounded like it fit on the Rumours album.

I suggest that Jeremy's "Travelin' could have been on that or the White album, and you would never guess that it wasn't made to be there.

Did you get Jeremy's "Red Sky Blues" off his website?

Doc
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  #3  
Old 01-25-2003, 02:21 AM
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chiliD chiliD is offline
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To me, the entire 2nd side of the Jeremy Spencer Band "Flee" album sounds like the Rumours incarnation.

"Flee" sounds like it could be a Christine McVie song
"Cool Breeze" is the "Stevie" song
"You've Got The Right" is Jeremy's Monday Morning/Second Hand News
"Travelling" definitely has a Lindsey feel to it, too.

Knowing of Jeremy's penchant for mimic & parody, I have this theory that Jeremy INTENTIONALLY made side 2 to sound like the then current Fleetwood Mac incarnation. AND, that side one was his majorly tongue-in-cheek parody of the then happening disco sound.

After not listening to his Jeremy Spencer & The Children album for quite a while, I've been listening to it fairly frequently since I acquired the mp3s of it and burned it onto a CD-R. Despite the religious lyrical content (which don't seem nearly as "over the top" now as they did in 1972), the SOUND of the album is really great...he borrows heavily from the Beatles, CSNY, Jefferson Starship, early Doobie Bros, and the Bare Trees era FMac sound throughout. My two fave songs on it are "Can You Hear The Song?" & "War Horse". My only major complaint is that the production is a bit muffled.

As for his live material from either 1995 or 1998, I love "Bend In The Road" and "You Don't Have To Be Black To Be Blue"...plus, anyone who can nail the opening riff of "Johnny B. Goode" on SLIDE guitar, gets two-thumbs-up from me!

Of his Fleetwood Mac material, my faves are:
Shake Your Moneymaker
Allow Me One More Show
This Is The Rock
Coming Home
Dr. Brown
Buddy's Song
Blood On The Floor
Got To Move
Hellhound On My Trail (or the alternate lyric version "You're So Evil" on the Blue Horizon Sessions box)
Madison Blues
Mighty Cold (from the Vaudeville Years set)
Purple Dancer (well, he wrote HALF of it)
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Last edited by chiliD; 01-25-2003 at 02:36 AM..
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  #4  
Old 01-27-2003, 12:57 PM
Doctor Brown Doctor Brown is offline
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Hey this is great ChilliD!

I think that you are right about the "Flee" album. But I think that it was Ahmet Ertegun's (The president of Atlantic Records) suggestion to come up with something to sound like FM, in order to capitalize on the success that they were having.

But I do think that if some of that stuff was on one of the FM albums, people would have said "Oh yeah, I remember that part of Fleetwood Mac, cool, great song"!

As far as disco, I couldn't comment on that.

Jeremy told me that he never personally referred to what he did as parody. He said that was a term that critics or reviewers used. He said that he played that Rock and Roll music out of a love and respect for it.

He said that he had to kind of "ham it up" to make it more well recieved by the audience. Because he didn't feel that just playing the songs was enough.

I doubt if any musician starts out not playing the music of their favorite artist, and trying to "nail it" perfectly. Jeremy just happened to be so good at it, that he was able to take it to a professional level.

As far as Elmore James, he said yes, he was trying to sound like him. But I think that it was probably about the same as the way he did the Rock and Roll. He had the ability to do it, and he was living the blues. I have yet to hear anybody else come close to his interpretation.

I agree with you about the "Jeremy Spencer and the Children" album too. Although you may know more about whether he was borrowing from other people than I would. I just kind of hear it as him. I don't think that he was really into many of those other groups that you mention, but perhaps some of the others in the band were.

I'm not all that keen on the 90's live material. I would prefer different songs. I do like the studio recording of "Red Sky Blues". I think that it is as good as anything that he has done.

The "Johnny B Goode" slide. Like Christine said "He was a hell of a slide player, probably better than Elmore James".

As far as your favs. I like your list. I'm surprized to see "Blood on the Floor". A lot of people don't understand where that is coming from. Good show! I'm also surprized not to see "Hi Ho Silver".

I'm not all that crazy about "Purple Dancer", but that's me.

I also would add to the Rock and Roll stuff: "Tiger" and "Hi Ho Silver".

For the blues I also love: "Baby Please Set A Date", "Mean Mistreatin' Mama" and "Stranger Blues". Oh, and "Can't Afford To Do It".

You don't say which "Got to Move" that is your fav. Is it the one from the Dog and Dustbin album, or the live version?

There is some stuff that I don't particularly care for: That Do-wop thing and some live Rock and Roll stuff. But other than that I like most everything he has done.

I'd love to create a set list and take him on a blues circuit tour!!!

Doc

Last edited by Doctor Brown; 01-27-2003 at 01:04 PM..
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  #5  
Old 01-27-2003, 04:26 PM
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becca becca is offline
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"Knowing of Jeremy's penchant for mimic & parody, I have this theory that Jeremy INTENTIONALLY made side 2 to sound like the then current Fleetwood Mac incarnation. AND, that side one was his majorly tongue-in-cheek parody of the then happening disco sound."

I will never appreciate Spencer I don't think because I keep getting this kind of making fun of things from his music. It just makes me itchy or something. I know he created original things in a way but they are like showing off how anyone can do what (fill in the blank) does. There doesn't seem to be a Spencer sound I can distinguish like I can Kirwan or Green or Welch or McVie/Perfect, or for that matter Clapton and Page. All I hear are Spencer's source inspiration be it Burnette, Holly, James, or anything else. It prevents me from actually enjoying it because it is way too self conscious about being an imitation of something and someone else. Maybe some day I will hear what to me is an original Spencer song, who knows. Mostly I put something of his on and it's dissatisfying, I just want to run and put the original thing being mimicked on. His works don't even make me appreciate the sources more but do kind of diminish them, like that Buddy Holly medley sort of a thing throwing in all Holly's little trademarks in one tune and overdoing it, making you aware of the limitations of it.

Last edited by becca; 01-27-2003 at 04:28 PM..
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  #6  
Old 01-28-2003, 11:50 AM
Mac Fan Mac Fan is offline
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Shake your moneymaker.
there are probablt loads more, but I'm not really sure what songs he's written.
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  #7  
Old 01-28-2003, 02:12 PM
Doctor Brown Doctor Brown is offline
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Well Mac Fan, Jeremy didn't write "Shake Your Moneymaker", Elmore James did.

But Jeremy did write some songs based on Elmore's style. "My Heart Beat Like A Hammer", "I've Lost My Baby", and "I Need Your Love Tonight".

He also wrote a nice acoustical blues number called "Allow Me One More Show".

He wrote almost all of the tracks on his solo album and some good rock and roll songs like "This is the Rock" and "Buddy's Song".

He also wrote a nice acoustical rock song called "One Together".

His most current "Red Sky Blues" is based upon a story related by the wife of the founder of the "Children of God".

There are more but this is a good start.

Doc

Last edited by Doctor Brown; 01-28-2003 at 03:19 PM..
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  #8  
Old 01-28-2003, 02:44 PM
Mac Fan Mac Fan is offline
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Quote:
Originally posted by Doctor Brown
Well Mac Fan, Jeremy didn't write "Shake Your Moneymaker, Elmore James did.
Doc
I know, I found that out earlier today.
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  #9  
Old 01-29-2003, 12:01 PM
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chiliD chiliD is offline
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Ya know...Jeremy's...uh, well...FMac's version...of "Shake Your Money Maker", to me, is even better than Elmore's original...and FAR & AWAY better than the version the Butterfield Blues Band did on their first album.
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  #10  
Old 01-30-2003, 03:56 PM
Doctor Brown Doctor Brown is offline
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I'm with ya there ChilliD!


Doc
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  #11  
Old 01-30-2003, 04:35 PM
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I guess This Is the Rock is more original besides being a send up of Elvis. Had it been an Elvis record it might have been a minor hit. I remember this one song that was Look Back In Love Not In Anger commenting on Bowie's Look Back In Anger and actually enjoyed it for it's own qualities and more than the source, so guess it can happen. I put on Shake Your Money Maker, and maybe it builds on the original ever so slightly, or he had better recording facilities, but I don't feel anything original really is brought to it, it's a cover tune done well as he did do everything as well as it probably can be technically, but I miss the original expression in it I do feel and hear in Green or Page. They bring the material alive while some are more focused on recreating something from the past which spencer has said was his mindset in opposition to the music going on at the time. Not like it's a science to dissect these things but Spencer was seen by FM itself as a side act for various reasons; he wouldn't play on other people's featured tracks, and so he had a solo release with the band while still sort of a member and was left off Then Play On. In the end people appreciate different qualities, and I am curious to hear the later recordings that may be more original or copying some other styles.

I enjoy My Heart Beat like a Hammer in with a mix of Green and Kirwan.
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  #12  
Old 01-31-2003, 09:11 AM
Doctor Brown Doctor Brown is offline
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Hi becca!

I'm not sure how long it is that you have been a fan of Fleetwood Mac, and I understand how you might come to these conclusions looking back in retrospect, with the total picture that we have today.

But at the time, Jeremy was not percieved the way you see it. Even Peter Green thought that he was great, that's why he wanted him in the band.

At the live shows, more people related to Jeremy than they did to Peter. He was fun, he was a rocker, and he was damn good.
Remember this was 1968.

To tell the truth, back then, and even today, some people give Peter credit for Jeremy's work. In Bill Wyman's book, he talks about the Elmore James slide playing in Fleetwood Mac and how great it was, but I don't think that HE knows that it was Jeremy Spencer not Peter Green who was playing it. The only name mentioned is Peter's.

Elmore James was the rage at that time, and neither Green, nor Clapton, nor, Page, nor anyone else could hit that mark the way that Spencer did. Canned Heat did a respectable job, and later Johnny Winter, but at the time Spencer was king.

If you look on the first two albums, it is not clear which member is which. Their names are not printed directly under their pictures, and even I, back then thought that Jeremy was Peter Green because he was standing seperate from the group in the photo, and this was Peter Green's Fleetwood Mac. So it seemed logical that the person seperated from the rest was Peter Green.

And when you saw them live, you just naturally thought that the one who seemed to have the most stage presence, was Peter Green. But it was Jeremy Spencer.

Back on track~ With what we had when the first two US albums came out. There was no thought of redundancy or narrowness of focus. Even up to the time that Kiln House came out, our perceptions were what we had on record. What we saw at live shows was soon digested, but you always had what was on record.

Today with what we have on "Show Biz Blues" and "The Vaudeville Years" ON RECORD, paints a different picture of the total makeup of the band at that time, than we actually had. Those were singular performances and would have only been seen by the people in attendance.

I have to disagree with your take on "Shake Your Moneymaker". Music is like visual art. It generates a certain feeling when looking at it or listening to it. When I play Jeremy's version back to back with Elmore's, the difference is like looking at a Currier and Ives painting and then Andy Warhol. Totaly different sensations.

And at the time when Kiln House came out, there was a huge trend toward a 50's music revival. People wanted to hear covers and that style of music. So it's not really fair to criticize Jeremy for playing it. He was not the only one relating to that music, everyone was. It was what the public wanted.

And to be honest, I can't see what all the fuss is about trying to pigeon hole Jeremy about playing Elmore James or rock and roll. What is the difference between him doing what he did and Peter playing B.B. King or Otis Rush. Or Clapton playing Muddy Waters or Robert Johnson. I mean none of these guys were creating a new form of music, they were putting their spin on what THEIR heroes had done. It was like that then and always will be.

There is so much to say on these subjects that I have trouble sequencing it properly, but I'll try to get it out eventually and hopefully make some sence.

Doc

Last edited by Doctor Brown; 01-31-2003 at 09:44 AM..
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  #13  
Old 01-31-2003, 09:50 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Doctor Brown
What is the difference between him doing what he did and Peter playing B.B. King or Otis Rush. Or Clapton playing Muddy Waters or Robert Johnson. I mean none of these guys were creating a new form of music, they were putting their spin on what THEIR heroes had done.
Or, in the early days of the Rolling Stones, Keith Richards and his Chuck Berry clonishness.

Quote:
Originally posted by Doctor Brown
If you look on the first two albums, it is not clear which member is which. Their names are not printed directly under their pictures, and even I, back then thought that Jeremy was Peter Green because he was standing seperate from the group in the photo, and this was Peter Green's Fleetwood Mac. [/I]
Ahhh, yes, but the OFFICIAL band name was Peter Green's Fleetwood Mac Featuring Jeremy Spencer
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Old 01-31-2003, 11:07 AM
Doctor Brown Doctor Brown is offline
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Quote:
Originally posted by chiliD
Or, in the early days of the Rolling Stones, Keith Richards and his Chuck Berry clonishness.



Ahhh, yes, but the OFFICIAL band name was Peter Green's Fleetwood Mac Featuring Jeremy Spencer

That's true ChilliD, but that name was dropped by the time that we got the album, and I didn't have access to what had come before. But that name alone speaks volumes in terms of Jeremy's role.

Kieth Richards is a very good example of the evolutionary process that was taking place. And I've rarely heard him criticized for it. It was all a matter of taste.

Elvis was considered to be the king of rock and roll, and I think that there is merit to that statement.

Chuck Berry and Little Richard had some hit records but did not recieve the recognition that Elvis did.

I do not believe that because Elvis didn't write the songs or really play an instrument, takes away from his greatness.

When he first came out his singing alone was enough to give him his title. It wasn't until he became commercialized and went to RCA that his creativness began to decline.

His first recordings were as raw as any of those other artists. He was emulating Arthur Crudup and other Delta blues singers that he liked. So he did the same thing that Green, Clapton and Spencer did, but he did it first. Then he took some of Little Richards songs and did a damn good job on them.

The artists at Sun Records or anywhere else for that matter, had no idea that Little Richard or Chuck Berry would have any more chance of coming out of obscurity than Arthur Crudup or any of the other blues artists at the time.

So for Elvis to cover that stuff was really the beginning of breaking down the racial barrier that was firmly intrenched in music and in society in general at that time. And further advancment would not come until the early 60's. This was 1955.

Of course Little Richard never saw it that way, but Chuck Berry was a little smarter.

Chuck Berry has said that he emulated Louis Jordan and some others. Little Richard also had his mentors who influenced him.

Chuck Berry, Elmore James, B.B. King, Muddy Waters, Elvis. What's the difference, it's all a matter of taste and hopefully a knowledge of what really happened. Not just picking up bits and pieces here and there and telling yourself you know the story. That lack of knowledge is what leads people not to understand what is really behind something. Of course we all arent going to persue things to quite the same level.

That is a general statement and not directed at anyone personally.

So for Jeremy to have Elvis as his mentor is not surprizing, I felt the same way. He was actually lucky to have found Elmore when he did, and to have had the style mastered when it was the current rage.

The problem with the Elvis thing was that the music business had just gone through a whole period of Elvis wanna be's and sound alikes and it was becoming a little tired for all but the most adamant fans.

So what happened, the trend shifted from Elvis to Chuck Berry and proliferated with Kieth Richard to Bob Seger and others.

It's all a matter of taste, but none of it's new.


Doc

Last edited by Doctor Brown; 01-31-2003 at 11:37 AM..
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Old 01-31-2003, 11:40 AM
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Well, even Peter Green had his "Clapton phase" when he first joined the Bluesbreakers (it is TOUGH to tell that it is NOT Clapton playing "The Stumble" on Mayall's Hard Road album)...he hit his own stride when he penned "The Supernatural", then once he formed Fleetwood Mac, you can hear his BB King style come out in full blossom (specifically on "A Fool No More" & "Love That Burns")

So, basically, the original Fleetwood Mac sound was "BB King" with Peter, "Elmore James" with Jeremy. I don't think Jeremy started into the 50's covers/parodies (I use the term "parodies" only for lack of a better description) until after Danny joined, though...am I right about that, Dr Brown?
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