Kiln House

[BklynBlue]

I guess the real difference with Jeremy's performances, compared to Green's, is that his goal seems to be to replicate the sound of the original, down to the vocal inflections, thereby blurring the distinction of the singer's sincerity.
The songs where he just sings as himself, are the ones where Spencer shines most strongly. Even his playing becomes more expansive, as if he's shed a self-imposed straitjacket -
his covers of Homesick James Williamson's songs, like "Got To Move" and "My Baby Is Sweet", I think are more successful than his Elmore James numbers -
He recreates the power of Son House's playing on "Preachin'" but he does not try to sing like him - Fifties rock 'n roll like "Honey Hush" or even "Bo Diddley", and I would bet he used Buddy Holly's recording as his template, work best because he just sang them as himself -
those are no more "parodies" than Green singing "Tallahassee Lassie" or "Jenny Jenny" -
and even Green could fall into that trap of trying to hard to reproduce a vocal style - his take on "You Need Love" really suffers from that.

[dansven]

Originally posted by SteveMacD
I think "little" is in reference to the rather short length of the album, especially when compared to "Then Play On" before and "Future Games" after. It's a very structured, song-based album. It's not the thinking man's Fleetwood Mac, which is fine by me.

Yes, it was the lenght of it I was referring to, by saying that a couple of extra Kirwan songs would been good. How about Down At The Crown aka Doin' Alright? Maybe on the new version??

It may also be a little album in music history, but it wasn't actually that I was thinking about - it was the lenght of it

Daniel

[greenfire]

I guess one of the biggest surprises for me with Kiln House was the sound of Jeremy's voice. He just sounded so different to me than his vocals on Blues Jam or "dog n' dustbin", etc. I know he was trying to do some different impersonations than on previious albums, like the Elvis "This Is The Rock" and Country Western on "Blood On The Floor" or Buddy Holly on "Buddy's Song", but still his voice just had a different tone than what I had heard before. I'm not describing this in a negative way but in a positive. Again only my personal observation, but I liked his vocals best on this album better to those on any of the previous ones.

[chiliD]

Good point. Jeremy probably thought that he had to "show himself" more because he didn't have Peter Green there to be the upfront guy. Jeremy could just take on any persona he wanted due to all the attention that Peter got. Since Danny wasn't all that strong of a personality to take the "frontman" reins, Jeremy had to show a more "real" side of himself. Which obviously (I assume) became to much for him. (and the same thing later with Danny, it seems)

[sharksfan2000]

Just listened to Jeremy's "Mean Old Fireman" from The Original Fleetwood Mac album, for the first time in quite awhile. Now that's a much different vocal style on that track than he uses on his other blues songs - sounds more like the "real" Jeremy.

I'm sure I've heard Jeremy do that song (probably live) under a different title, but I can't think of what it is - anyone know? Seems basically a variation on Otis Rush's "So Many Roads", but I think that "mean old fireman, cruel old engineer" line pops up in other songs too, right? Or maybe I'm just hallucinating again

[BklynBlue]

Originally posted by sharksfan2000
Just listened to Jeremy's "Mean Old Fireman" from The Original Fleetwood Mac album, for the first time in quite awhile. Now that's a much different vocal style on that track than he uses on his other blues songs - sounds more like the "real" Jeremy.
I'm sure I've heard Jeremy do that song (probably live) under a different title, but I can't think of what it is - anyone know? Seems basically a variation on Otis Rush's "So Many Roads", but I think that "mean old fireman, cruel old engineer" line pops up in other songs too, right? Or maybe I'm just hallucinating again

It is not just his singing that's a revelation on that track, it's his guitar skills.
Jeremy's ability on acoustic guitar was never really given any attention. I think that is a shame -
in interviews with various people over the years, and ones that he himself has given, it's been said that he was basically a lazy sod - but you have to wonder, if Vernon had asked him to try a number, would he have refused?
If he had complete carte blanche in the studio, why didn't he ever push to record any of his "rock and roll" numbers?
There was so much more to the first line-up, Danny included, that went untapped - you get to hear a little of it in the BBC
recordings but there was just so much potential that went unused...

Aside from being a "train song", I don't think it really has that much in common with Rush's "So Many Roads, So Many Trains".
The liner notes to the box set credit it to Arthur "Big Boy" Crudup, but I don't think that's correct.
I'm not an expert on Crudup (or anything else, for that matter) but the only "train song" I know by him is "Mean Old 'Frisco Blues" -
There are thousands of train blues, and to me, it sounds like Jeremy did what many a bluesman did: take various images, lines, or even whole verses from disparate sources and combine in a new way and call it your own -
If anyone has an vinyl pressing of "Original Fleetwood Mac" I'd be curious if that was the composer credit on there too.

[sharksfan2000]

Originally posted by BklynBlue
Aside from being a "train song", I don't think it really has that much in common with
The liner notes to the box set credit it to Arthur "Big Boy" Crudup, but I don't think that's correct.
I'm not an expert on Crudup (or anything else, for that matter) but the only "train song" I know by him is "Mean Old 'Frisco Blues" -
There are thousands of train blues, and to me, it sounds like Jeremy did what many a bluesman did: take various images, lines, or even whole verses from disparate sources and combine in a new way and call it your own -
If anyone has an vinyl pressing of "Original Fleetwood Mac" I'd be curious if that was the composer credit on there too.

I'm sure you're right about Otis Rush's "So Many Roads, So Many Trains". I think I'm just remembering that one line about "mean old fireman, cruel old engineer". I'm pretty sure I have the vinyl Original Fleetwood Mac at home - I'll see if I can check the credit for that song later.

[chiliD]

Originally posted by BklynBlue
There was so much more to the first line-up, Danny included, that went untapped - you get to hear a little of it in the BBC
recordings but there was just so much potential that went unused...

Unfortunately, that can be said about a couple of other incarnations of Fleetwood Mac, as well:

Billy Burnette & Rick Vito were painfully under-utilized as songwriters (as one can hear in the outtakes of the Behind The Mask album )

And, the overall "reinventing" of Fleetwood Mac for the Time album...Bekka & Billy could've been the next "Buckingham Nicks" had they been left to their own devices and not been forced to BE "Buckingham Nicks".

Ok, off my soapbox...now back to the Kiln House thread.

[sharksfan2000]

Originally posted by BklynBlue
The liner notes to the box set credit it ("Mean Old Fireman") to Arthur "Big Boy" Crudup, but I don't think that's correct.
If anyone has an vinyl pressing of "Original Fleetwood Mac" I'd be curious if that was the composer credit on there too.

The credit on the vinyl LP is "Traditional - arranged by Jeremy Spencer".

[HomerMcvie]

And, the overall "reinventing" of Fleetwood Mac for the Time album...Bekka & Billy could've been the next "Buckingham Nicks" had they been left to their own devices and not been forced to BE "Buckingham Nicks".

I've said this from the git go! I honestly think Bekka could've been a BIG FM star, if she were only given the chance. It's a damned shame she wasn't.

[dansven]

I actually prefer the BBC version of "Hi Ho Silver", I think the sound of Jeremy 's guitar on the studio version is a bit too heavy. How about you people??

[sharksfan2000]

Originally posted by dansven
I actually prefer the BBC version of "Hi Ho Silver", I think the sound of Jeremy 's guitar on the studio version is a bit too heavy. How about you people??

I just listened to both of them (the BBC version has the original title of "Honey Hush" - by Big Joe Turner, as BklynBlue poinetd out earlier in this tread). Hadn't listened to them back-to-back before. I'd give the edge to the BBC one also, although the heavier guitar sound on the Kiln House version doesn't really bother me. Danny's backing vocals on the Kiln House version do bother me, though, and I find the ones on Live at the BBC are easier for me to take. Overall the BBC version just seems more "natural", less "produced", which is what you'd expect. I think that looser feel works in favor of this song.

I assume the liner notes on Live at the BBC are incorrect and that this track was recorded after Peter left the band. It was broadcast on 22 August 1970. Is that Christine on piano?

[P90pup]

I have to disagree about some assesments of Station Man.
Most guitarists will say this was Danny's post Peter tour de force!
It was. Danny and Jeremy were together NOT synched vocalists.
Who cares??? These were some master FWM riffs....period!

ChiliD, I agree with you about Jeremy and the Children. Most
of those songs could have been at home on either Kiln House
or Bare Trees. Jeremy's best stuff...and playing (kinda like Danny). I wish I still had that one.