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  #31  
Old 02-06-2018, 08:24 PM
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they are both tiptoeing around each other, at least from what we can glance in that DR doc - which was probably making them completely unhappy with the results of whatever work they did together, because each of them feels like they are trying to please the other and in the end both are unsatisfied with the results. the difference is - he is not actually saying it and you need to watch his reactions to see that he's mostly holding his tongue (dream-catcher scene? soo hilarious!) and trying to make her happy, while she's mostly being loud and passive aggressive about it, making it known to everyone how she's "sacrificing for his happiness" as you described above.
That's why this time he saved Stevie from another sacrifice and chose Christine as his musical partner. No more Bob Dylan, no more dream-catcher, no more Karen, no more asking her to do another album. Lindsey is so relaxed around Christine. The awkardness is gone. And I guess he's tired of dealing with it.
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  #32  
Old 02-06-2018, 10:38 PM
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they are both tiptoeing around each other, at least from what we can glance in that DR doc - which was probably making them completely unhappy with the results of whatever work they did together, because each of them feels like they are trying to please the other and in the end both are unsatisfied with the results.
to me, this is exactly it in everything they do together.

We'll have to agree to disagree about the mixing session. I haven't watched it in quite a while so one of these days i'll have to go back and watch it with your take on it in mind.... For now I stick with my interpretation
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  #33  
Old 02-06-2018, 11:19 PM
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The thing I found curious was that Stevie came to the sessions with fully flushed out demos and was upset by the way Lindsey deviated from them. Stevie, Christine, and Lindsey have all consistently stated over the decades that one of Lindsey’s biggest strengths was taking something completely rudimentary from Stevie (I believe Christine called it “rubbish”) and turning it into something spectacular. That’s always been the way he’s looked at his role in the band. It seems a little bizarre that she went into the sessions that way, especially knowing the core of Lindsey’s material was culled from songs he/they had been working on for at least six years. All three guys, not just Lindsey, seemed a little put off by it.
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  #34  
Old 02-07-2018, 08:15 AM
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I find it very entertaining reading these threads. I have seen the same group of people here who continually poke fun at the Stevie groups on Facebook and at other online Stevie groups because of their refusal to accept anything negative about Stevie Nicks. And here you all sit gushing and gushing about Lindsey or Christine and acting like you know what they are thinking on a day to day basis and about the relationships they have with people in their band they have known for over 40 years...but knowing that you are right and everyone else is wrong. Lindsey is tired of Stevie and doesnt care if she records anymore. Christine and Stevie never made a pact to make the same as the boys in the band. Geez...I think we should just start a Lets Bash Stevie Nicks thread and let you guys just go to town constantly. You just cant help yourselves. It is in literally 99% of the threads on this Rumours board. Look at yourselves in the mirror!!
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  #35  
Old 02-07-2018, 10:27 AM
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and Stevie Nicks was starting to lumber along like a sod-packed wheelbarrow.
And I'm David, not Homer!(we all should be able to change our name, at least once)
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  #36  
Old 02-07-2018, 10:42 AM
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The thing I found curious was that Stevie came to the sessions with fully flushed out demos and was upset by the way Lindsey deviated from them. Stevie, Christine, and Lindsey have all consistently stated over the decades that one of Lindsey’s biggest strengths was taking something completely rudimentary from Stevie (I believe Christine called it “rubbish”) and turning it into something spectacular. That’s always been the way he’s looked at his role in the band. It seems a little bizarre that she went into the sessions that way, especially knowing the core of Lindsey’s material was culled from songs he/they had been working on for at least six years. All three guys, not just Lindsey, seemed a little put off by it.
When I heard the Dreams' demo compared to the release, I dropped my jaw...

Oh my what an amazing production. I love the studio version of Dreams. The band captures Stevie's song and lifts it to new heights. Keyboards, backing vocals, the guitar work, the bass and drums... All magic.

It's also interesting to note that a lot of complaints about SYW were continuity issues.
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  #37  
Old 02-07-2018, 11:07 AM
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I find it very entertaining reading these threads. I have seen the same group of people here who continually poke fun at the Stevie groups on Facebook and at other online Stevie groups because of their refusal to accept anything negative about Stevie Nicks. And here you all sit gushing and gushing about Lindsey or Christine and acting like you know what they are thinking on a day to day basis and about the relationships they have with people in their band they have known for over 40 years...but knowing that you are right and everyone else is wrong. Lindsey is tired of Stevie and doesnt care if she records anymore. Christine and Stevie never made a pact to make the same as the boys in the band. Geez...I think we should just start a Lets Bash Stevie Nicks thread and let you guys just go to town constantly. You just cant help yourselves. It is in literally 99% of the threads on this Rumours board. Look at yourselves in the mirror!!
Aww sorry to hear that even Facebook FM groups are not places of SN worship you’d like them to be and you can’t find what you want even there. I’m sure there must be at least some closed groups on social media that will satisfy your SN needs.

On another note, happy to read you are entertained and not angry anymore, and I enjoy reading your posts in chit chat forum here!
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  #38  
Old 02-07-2018, 11:18 AM
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Aww sorry to hear that even Facebook FM groups are not places of SN worship you’d like them to be and you can’t find what you want even there. I’m sure there must be at least some closed groups on social media that will satisfy your SN needs.

On another note, happy to read you are entertained and not angry anymore, and I enjoy reading your posts in chit chat forum here!
There needs to be another board like Seven Wonders. All Stevie worship, all the time. Say anything negative about her, and get permanently banned. Hitler would've loved owning a board like that.
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  #39  
Old 02-07-2018, 12:46 PM
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The thing I found curious was that Stevie came to the sessions with fully flushed out demos and was upset by the way Lindsey deviated from them. Stevie, Christine, and Lindsey have all consistently stated over the decades that one of Lindsey’s biggest strengths was taking something completely rudimentary from Stevie (I believe Christine called it “rubbish”) and turning it into something spectacular. That’s always been the way he’s looked at his role in the band. It seems a little bizarre that she went into the sessions that way, especially knowing the core of Lindsey’s material was culled from songs he/they had been working on for at least six years. All three guys, not just Lindsey, seemed a little put off by it.
Stevie began working out her songs with other people right after she and Lindsey broke up. She realized that relying on him for that created a real power imbalance, and made her dependent on someone who for quite a while didn't always have the best intentions towards her music. Once she went solo, she did this even more. People often confuse *songwriting* demos which are just her recording herself during the raw writing process, and then getting a complete start-to-finish performance of what she's written with a demo of how you want the finished song to sound. She used to just do her songwriting demo and hand it off to Lindsey for the most part. For many years now, since going solo, she will work with other musicians to record a more arranged version of the song. She did this because she felt frustrated that often the way her songs came out working with Lindsey wasn't what she wanted. As you could see in her film with Dave Stewart, Stevie evolved into wanting and getting more control over the arrangement of her songs over time and that's been the case even when working on solo albums with Jimmy. That's why they would argue in the studio.

So I wasn't at all surprised that she brought fleshed out demos to the band. She had clear ideas about how she wanted those songs to go. She's not obligated to give him a raw songwriting demo. They're her songs. As a producer he should respect how the writer wants a song to go-- in fact that's exactly the job of a producer, to help an artist get their vision out to the world. Just because in the early days she was lazier, or less inclined to fight with him while they were a couple or didn't have the years and years of experience in the studio that she has now doesn't mean she has to still work that way. Let's not forget how many albums she's done, she's not totally clueless about how different recording techniques work and how to get some of the sound she wants.
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  #40  
Old 02-07-2018, 05:11 PM
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Aww sorry to hear that even Facebook FM groups are not places of SN worship you’d like them to be and you can’t find what you want even there. I’m sure there must be at least some closed groups on social media that will satisfy your SN needs.

On another note, happy to read you are entertained and not angry anymore, and I enjoy reading your posts in chit chat forum here!
Dont put words in my mouth. I didnt say that. I said that you and your friends make fun of them...not me. I have never been angry. This isnt important enough to be angry about. I just find some folks behavior on here a little juvenile.
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  #41  
Old 02-07-2018, 07:32 PM
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^idk. your posts come across as angry and reading into lot of stuff that's not really there. and disrespectful to people and discussions here.
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  #42  
Old 02-07-2018, 07:41 PM
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The thing I found curious was that Stevie came to the sessions with fully flushed out demos and was upset by the way Lindsey deviated from them. Stevie, Christine, and Lindsey have all consistently stated over the decades that one of Lindsey’s biggest strengths was taking something completely rudimentary from Stevie (I believe Christine called it “rubbish”) and turning it into something spectacular. That’s always been the way he’s looked at his role in the band. It seems a little bizarre that she went into the sessions that way, especially knowing the core of Lindsey’s material was culled from songs he/they had been working on for at least six years. All three guys, not just Lindsey, seemed a little put off by it.
Another problem is that Lindsey's on a different page than Stevie now musically, and has been for quite some time, when it comes to "sound." He often likes to make things sound unnatural - manipulated vocals, sped up guitar parts, sound effects, etc... she's not into that. Back in the day, his suggestions involved adding interesting harmonies, bridges, guitar parts... but in the recent era, they might also include adding bizarre stuff like the freaky manipulated voice echoing that "What I saw on this journey" verse in "Illume." That was definitely.... different.... and not very "Stevie." So I can kind of see where she might be a little nervous.

On the other hand, she made him promise to leave "Without You" alone and he did... and I think it would have benefited from some tweaking in its arrangement! Not by adding gimmicks, mind you, but by finding ways to make it less repetitive. Lindsey could have helped her with that. These people need to find middle ground!
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  #43  
Old 02-07-2018, 08:25 PM
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Another problem is that Lindsey's on a different page than Stevie now musically, and has been for quite some time, when it comes to "sound." He often likes to make things sound unnatural - manipulated vocals, sped up guitar parts, sound effects, etc... she's not into that. Back in the day, his suggestions involved adding interesting harmonies, bridges, guitar parts... but in the recent era, they might also include adding bizarre stuff like the freaky manipulated voice echoing that "What I saw on this journey" verse in "Illume." That was definitely.... different.... and not very "Stevie." So I can kind of see where she might be a little nervous.

On the other hand, she made him promise to leave "Without You" alone and he did... and I think it would have benefited from some tweaking in its arrangement! Not by adding gimmicks, mind you, but by finding ways to make it less repetitive. Lindsey could have helped her with that. These people need to find middle ground!
This right here is the best explanation of their musical relationship. Lindsey is not the same producer he was 35 years ago. He is set in his ways now just as much as Stevie is. I also find his production style way too artificial at times.
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  #44  
Old 02-07-2018, 08:47 PM
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This right here is the best explanation of their musical relationship. Lindsey is not the same producer he was 35 years ago. He is set in his ways now just as much as Stevie is. I also find his production style way too artificial at times.
agree, they both developed in different directions.

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Stevie began working out her songs with other people right after she and Lindsey broke up. She realized that relying on him for that created a real power imbalance, and made her dependent on someone who for quite a while didn't always have the best intentions towards her music. Once she went solo, she did this even more. People often confuse *songwriting* demos which are just her recording herself during the raw writing process, and then getting a complete start-to-finish performance of what she's written with a demo of how you want the finished song to sound. She used to just do her songwriting demo and hand it off to Lindsey for the most part. For many years now, since going solo, she will work with other musicians to record a more arranged version of the song. She did this because she felt frustrated that often the way her songs came out working with Lindsey wasn't what she wanted. As you could see in her film with Dave Stewart, Stevie evolved into wanting and getting more control over the arrangement of her songs over time and that's been the case even when working on solo albums with Jimmy. That's why they would argue in the studio.

So I wasn't at all surprised that she brought fleshed out demos to the band. She had clear ideas about how she wanted those songs to go. She's not obligated to give him a raw songwriting demo. They're her songs. As a producer he should respect how the writer wants a song to go-- in fact that's exactly the job of a producer, to help an artist get their vision out to the world. Just because in the early days she was lazier, or less inclined to fight with him while they were a couple or didn't have the years and years of experience in the studio that she has now doesn't mean she has to still work that way. Let's not forget how many albums she's done, she's not totally clueless about how different recording techniques work and how to get some of the sound she wants.
i enjoyed reading this and i think it explains many things, as both soda and iamwilliame said. while Stevie's early days song ideas were heavily dependent on Lindsey fleshing them out, with her growth as an artist she now has ideas for a complete song sound which are very different than what he might do.

this all means that what many fans want from the Mac - collaborating and building songs together from rudimentary song ideas - while seem to be working better than ever with songs that originate from either Lindsey or Christine, ending in numerous co-writes on BuckVie, does not seem like something Stevie is interesed in doing with the Mac anymore. and it doesn't sound like she's interested in adding to other members' songs either - remember back in 2012 Lindsey brought to the Mac bunch of his own rudimentary song ideas so they can build them all together. several years later Chris took several of those and made them into songs like Too Far Gone and Red Sun.
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  #45  
Old 02-07-2018, 10:18 PM
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Stevie began working out her songs with other people right after she and Lindsey broke up. She realized that relying on him for that created a real power imbalance,
They seemed to have moved past that by the time she got involved with SYW. She and Lindsey seemed to be in a better place.

Quote:
As you could see in her film with Dave Stewart, Stevie evolved into wanting and getting more control over the arrangement of her songs over time and that's been the case even when working on solo albums with Jimmy. That's why they would argue in the studio.

So I wasn't at all surprised that she brought fleshed out demos to the band. She had clear ideas about how she wanted those songs to go. She's not obligated to give him a raw songwriting demo. They're her songs. As a producer he should respect how the writer wants a song to go-- in fact that's exactly the job of a producer, to help an artist get their vision out to the world.
The flip side of that coin is that TITN and especially SYW began life as Lindsey solo projects, so why should he have to change his vision and interrupt the continuity of a project he (and the others) had been working on for five or six years before she got involved?

And, what about Mick and John? Should they have to be beholden to Stevie’s demos? They’re artists, too, and it’s their band. John is as passionate/territorial about his bass lines as Stevie is about her songs. John gets especially offended with writers coming in with completed demos, and will demand they come back with the bass taken out of the mix. Fleetwood Mac is a band, and everyone has his/her input on the songs. What might be completely reasonable and necessary for her solo career won’t necessarily fly with Fleetwood Mac.

I suspect that’s why Lindsey wanted to start what he’d hoped would be the next album from scratch with Stevie.
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