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  #76  
Old 12-01-2009, 09:39 PM
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Originally Posted by sharksfan2000 View Post

I think a big problem to unraveling the reality of the Munich story is that many of the people who were involved, either directly or indirectly, seem to have their own agenda to push. Mick Fleetwood, Rainer Langhans, and Peter himself have reasons to spin the tale in ways that benefit them. And even if they don't have a personal agenda to push, it's natural that each person will have seen things through their individual experiences and how it affected them personally, plus many of those who have talked or written of the incident were not present during the entire time so they can only guess what else may have happened. Add to that the fact that pretty much everyone involved was using one or more substances that night so memories of the event are sure to be affected by that too.
The only thing I see as being somewhat universally true, though, is that people who had been close to Peter noticed an almost immediate change afterwards. Not JUST Mick, but John, Christine, Jenny Fleetwood, and others have commented over the years that there was a stark change in Peter's personality. Given what is known about schizophrenia, he met all of the high risks (i.e. a somewhat introverted, uncertain male with life-long religious issues under the age of 25 suddenly in the spotlight, not exactly sure how to cope with it, who was using hard drugs). It wouldn't really take a lot to get somebody like Peter, or Danny, to that point.

Whether or not he was going to leave Fleetwood Mac is almost irrelevant, the fact that he was digging graves by 1972 says a lot. (I'd argue that there were fixations on death and money.) People leave bands all the time and go on with careers at the same time as their old band. Hell, people have left FLEETWOOD MAC and still gone on with careers (i.e. everybody who joined after Danny Kirwan). Bob Welch wasn't digging graves two years after quitting Fleetwood Mac. There was never a point where Bob was this guy on Monday, but was this other guy by Friday, which WAS the case with Peter.
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  #77  
Old 12-02-2009, 01:30 AM
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The only thing I see as being somewhat universally true, though, is that people who had been close to Peter noticed an almost immediate change afterwards. Not JUST Mick, but John, Christine, Jenny Fleetwood, and others have commented over the years that there was a stark change in Peter's personality. Given what is known about schizophrenia, he met all of the high risks (i.e. a somewhat introverted, uncertain male with life-long religious issues under the age of 25 suddenly in the spotlight, not exactly sure how to cope with it, who was using hard drugs). It wouldn't really take a lot to get somebody like Peter, or Danny, to that point.

Here's what I don't understand about the "introverted" Peter Green:

This is the same person who approached established British blues artist John Mayall (while Clapton was in Greece for a couple months in 1965) to claim he was better than Clapton's replacement onstage. Keith Moon was at least drunk when he told Roger Daltrey he was better than the drummer onstage in 1964. That's just plain brazen confidence. Where did it go? It of course worked out for Green when Clapton formed Cream a year later, Mayall asked Green to replace Clapton.

Peter Green during the Mayall years, and the first year and a half with Fleetwood Mac was very controlling. He knew what he wanted and he expected it from his session musician's, or FM band members. For those who have the "Fleetwood Mac Blue Horizons Sessions" box set know this. Peter Green was a great leader, a task master, he always complained that Mick Fleetwood was behind the beat. He was demanding, but was correct everytime. He used to verbally fight with producer Mike Vernon.


So prior to the first U.S. visit in San Francisco with Owsley Stanley (Bear) in 6/68, Peter Green is a very self confident guitarist. Peter began to change during the first U.S. tour in the fall of '68. That's when "something" happened. From that experience came self doubt: "Man of the World", "Green Manalishi", and "Oh Well". Forget the Munich incident, this "trigger" happened during the U.S. late '68/early '69 tour.
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  #78  
Old 12-02-2009, 09:22 AM
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So prior to the first U.S. visit in San Francisco with Owsley Stanley (Bear) in 6/68, Peter Green is a very self confident guitarist. Peter began to change during the first U.S. tour in the fall of '68. That's when "something" happened. From that experience came self doubt: "Man of the World", "Green Manalishi", and "Oh Well". Forget the Munich incident, this "trigger" happened during the U.S. late '68/early '69 tour.
Disillusion with fame might have been the trigger? Few people can handle fame. Coupled with some drugs.
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  #79  
Old 12-02-2009, 02:13 PM
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Default How to contact Rainer Langhans

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Thank you very much for taking the time to translate, Popmuseum. The coffee seemed to work its magic
You're welcome. Yes, the viennese coffee was fine.

If anyone else wishes to ask Rainer Langhans anything about his Munich encounter with Peter Green "send a private message to me, I'll give you the contact adress you require". - Maybe Langhans took some photographs of Greenie (and him and/or Uschi Obermair)?

Last edited by Popmuseum : 12-03-2009 at 03:54 AM.
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  #80  
Old 12-02-2009, 03:08 PM
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popmuseum, I'd be more reluctant in publishing somebody's email adress on a forum like this. Spammers are everywhere.
Here's a suggestion: Maybe it would be better if you edit your previous message to something like "send a private message to popmuseum, he'll give you the contact adress you require".
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  #81  
Old 12-02-2009, 03:28 PM
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Spammers are everywhere.
Yes, you're right!

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Originally Posted by billwebster View Post
Here's a suggestion: Maybe it would be better if you edit your previous message to something like "send a private message to popmuseum, he'll give you the contact adress you require".
Fine idea!
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  #82  
Old 12-02-2009, 08:16 PM
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Keith Moon was at least drunk when he told Roger Daltrey he was better than the drummer onstage in 1964.
Well, supposedly it was a friend of Keith's who said "My mate is better than the drummer you've got".

And according to Tony Fletcher it was all set up - Keith had been rehearsing with them for a couple of weeks.
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  #83  
Old 12-03-2009, 01:20 AM
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Well, supposedly it was a friend of Keith's who said "My mate is better than the drummer you've got".

And according to Tony Fletcher it was all set up - Keith had been rehearsing with them for a couple of weeks.
I was wrong, but it made the Peter Green scenario more brazen, thanks! He was the GREEN GOD!

I haven't read that book in over ten years! Do you remember reading when Keith Moon went to seek spiritual guidance ('77), and a person told Keith he was mentally broken?

Last edited by slipkid : 12-04-2009 at 12:29 AM.
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  #84  
Old 12-04-2009, 10:38 AM
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See this link (second to last message) for a picture of and info on the Munich mansion

http://crosstowntorrents.org/showthr...?t=860&page=10
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  #85  
Old 12-17-2018, 02:46 PM
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Holy cow, did I just fall down into the rabbit hole... I'm catching up on these old posts.

I'm not nearly as familiar with the early years. I know the standard stories and myths circulating in any basic wikipedia or FM biography page, including the "3 day acid trip in Munich." It's extremely interesting to learn more about that night (including that it was just 1 night rather than 3, etc).

So many thoughts.

First, it's very cool to hear directly from Mr. Jeremy Spencer. Thank you, Mr. Spencer, for sharing your insights!

Second general thought, is it confirmed that the man and woman are Uschi Obermaier and Rainer Langhans? It does seem likely given what I've been reading online about them in my rabbit hole, their associations with Kommune 1, Amon Dl, etc. So fascinating. Popmuseum, thanks for sharing your correspondence with Langhans!

So many thoughts... so many "what ifs."
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  #86  
Old 12-18-2018, 04:01 AM
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Popmuseum, thanks for sharing your correspondence with Langhans!"
You're welcome.

By the way: Journalist Ada Wilson wrote a novel which deals with Peter Green's Munich accident*: Red Army Faction Blues. Route (2011). ISBN 978-1-901927-48-1.

https://www.amazon.de/Red-Army-Facti.../dp/1901927482

* As my favorite nobel laureate said: "Somebody got lucky. But it was an accident"
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  #87  
Old 12-26-2018, 05:50 AM
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Originally Posted by SteveMacD View Post
The only thing I see as being somewhat universally true, though, is that people who had been close to Peter noticed an almost immediate change afterwards. Not JUST Mick, but John, Christine, Jenny Fleetwood, and others have commented over the years that there was a stark change in Peter's personality. Given what is known about schizophrenia, he met all of the high risks (i.e. a somewhat introverted, uncertain male with life-long religious issues under the age of 25 suddenly in the spotlight, not exactly sure how to cope with it, who was using hard drugs). It wouldn't really take a lot to get somebody like Peter, or Danny, to that point.

Whether or not he was going to leave Fleetwood Mac is almost irrelevant, the fact that he was digging graves by 1972 says a lot. (I'd argue that there were fixations on death and money.) People leave bands all the time and go on with careers at the same time as their old band. Hell, people have left FLEETWOOD MAC and still gone on with careers (i.e. everybody who joined after Danny Kirwan). Bob Welch wasn't digging graves two years after quitting Fleetwood Mac. There was never a point where Bob was this guy on Monday, but was this other guy by Friday, which WAS the case with Peter.
The same old, same old. Disagree with all of that. Peter responsibly finished all the gigs Mac had booked before he left. He continued to be a very active musician up until late 1972 or so.
What his band members might have noted in that period was a shift in his attitude towards music. He wanted out of the corporate music business and play free music. It's highly unlikely one night in a Munich castle led him down this path, but tiredness from touring and a gradual disillusionment with the business. That's not LSD damage, that's a change in lifestyle and priorities, possibly influenced by drug use.

And he didn't work as a "gravedigger", he was a gardener at a cemetary. Is gardener a somehow ugly or crazy profession as you seem to imply? The music business is a much "sicker" business.

Last edited by dino : 12-26-2018 at 05:54 AM.
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  #88  
Old 12-26-2018, 05:56 AM
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Originally Posted by slipkid View Post
Here's what I don't understand about the "introverted" Peter Green:

This is the same person who approached established British blues artist John Mayall (while Clapton was in Greece for a couple months in 1965) to claim he was better than Clapton's replacement onstage. Keith Moon was at least drunk when he told Roger Daltrey he was better than the drummer onstage in 1964. That's just plain brazen confidence. Where did it go? It of course worked out for Green when Clapton formed Cream a year later, Mayall asked Green to replace Clapton.

Peter Green during the Mayall years, and the first year and a half with Fleetwood Mac was very controlling. He knew what he wanted and he expected it from his session musician's, or FM band members. For those who have the "Fleetwood Mac Blue Horizons Sessions" box set know this. Peter Green was a great leader, a task master, he always complained that Mick Fleetwood was behind the beat. He was demanding, but was correct everytime. He used to verbally fight with producer Mike Vernon.


So prior to the first U.S. visit in San Francisco with Owsley Stanley (Bear) in 6/68, Peter Green is a very self confident guitarist. Peter began to change during the first U.S. tour in the fall of '68. That's when "something" happened. From that experience came self doubt: "Man of the World", "Green Manalishi", and "Oh Well". Forget the Munich incident, this "trigger" happened during the U.S. late '68/early '69 tour.
Adulation, fame and drugs is a lethal cocktail.
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