1968 Chicken Shack video

[aleuzzi]

Originally Posted by lazy poker

i'd just been watching another chicken shack live video, which made me reply to this old thread.

vintage shack footage is truly few and far between, especially from the days with christine. for those who don't know it: this one is said to be from april '69 (recording and/or broadcasting), probably in paris, and it's pro-shot in b&w with great picture and sound for that age. the fact that dave bidwell's drums are placed behind the kit from power trio "the gun" implies that chicken shack were opening for them that night. (but they're greeted by the audience with enthusiastic applause anyway.)

i'd already read ages ago (i was too young to ever see them in person) that way more than the records displayed it was stan webb's show first and foremost. but here it was his show ONLY - not one song featured christine on vocals, the poor girl wasn't even allowed one single solo, can you imagine that?! so the shortcomings of stan's vocal and guitar mannerisms are unnerving upfront. though this may not be too surprising - with christine being such a great blues pianist and andy silvester / dave bidwell hardly coming up second behind fleetwood and mcvie as a top notch rhythm section in that musical vein, stan webb was definitely doing himself a disservice with his ego.

what i'd like to know from people who personally saw them in concert: have you experienced similar circumstances? seems like christine would've only got permissioned a slice of the spotlight at all if stan needed a breather or a pint. any replies are warmly welcome!

but to end on a high note concerning said footage: to see moving pictures of christine in those days and to hear her great blues piano playing in a live setting (thank god she's pretty prominent in the sound picture here and in principle soloing all over the place) is a rare thing and absolutely rewarding, regardless!

p.s. the setlist of that show:
(unknown first song)
lonesome whistle blues
night life
worried about my woman
hideaway

She was hired as a sideman. Her own vocal ability was kind of an after thought until fans and the press began remarking how incredible she sounded. Stan was, by all accounts, an entertaining guitarist, but his work has not aged well and much of it seems shallow and silly alongside Clapton, Green, and Kirwan's. Without Christine, The Chicken Shack were mediocre. Even in the clip above, Christine's organ is one of the most accomplished aspects of the music. She doesn't over play, but what she plays is rhythmically and harmonically interesting. The bass and drums are unexceptional.

[lazy poker]

thanks for sharing your interesting opinion, aleuzzi.
i only know that christine was asked by stan webb to join the band - did she state herself that this was just for backing purposes?
what i can't go along with, though, is your judgement on the shack's rhythm section. but as this aspect is simply another story and quite a bit off-topic here, i don't want to dive any deeper into it.

[aleuzzi]

Originally Posted by lazy poker

thanks for sharing your interesting opinion, aleuzzi.
i only know that christine was asked by stan webb to join the band - did she state herself that this was just for backing purposes?
what i can't go along with, though, is your judgement on the shack's rhythm section. but as this aspect is simply another story and quite a bit off-topic here, i don't want to dive any deeper into it.

Yeah, I'm one big opinion today. Sorry if I offended.

Christine has said in a few interviews the band were looking for a pianist to fill out the sound. Her singing was a plus, but not the main attraction. Or maybe she was just being modest? In another interview she said Chicken Shack was "all over" when she left, so I'm thinking she wasn't.

We can agree to disagree about the rhythm section, which I think is competent but not especially inspired either.

[lazy poker]

Originally Posted by aleuzzi

Yeah, I'm one big opinion today. Sorry if I offended.

Christine has said in a few interviews the band were looking for a pianist to fill out the sound. Her singing was a plus, but not the main attraction. Or maybe she was just being modest? In another interview she said Chicken Shack was "all over" when she left, so I'm thinking she wasn't.

We can agree to disagree about the rhythm section, which I think is competent but not especially inspired either.

. . . don't worry (be happy), aleuzzi - no offence taken!

but keep the following facts in mind:
the shack's first 45 featured christine's vocals on the all-important A-SIDE, while their third single had christine singing on BOTH sides even, not to mention their biggest hit ever (single #4), "i'd rather go blind" - and by the time of this '69 paris concert, all that had already happened. so talking of christine as a hired sideman might have been true in the first place, but not in 1969 anymore.

on the other hand . . . in mid-april that year chicken shack already started the first recording sessions with christine's replacement, paul raymond. so we're talking about one of the last gigs before christine's departing from the group, which must have been decided and known to the band by then. so stan might have deemed it better not to feature her any longer explicitly, to avoid a potential striking gap between her and her future successor. it's a thought that popped into me head . . .

and, just by the way - this is what ace-producer mike vernon had to say about that chicken shack line-up:
"they had the it-girl of the blues world in christine perfect (. . .) and an OUTSTANDING HARD, DRIVING RHYTHM SECTION in andy silvester and dave bidwell." and: "a more solid bass man than andy silvester you will never find."
and paul raymond considered dave bidwell to be "possibly the best blues drummer around, next to mick fleetwood”.

so at least i'm in some pretty decent company with my point of view on this matter. but - as a very wise man once said: "one thing in common is we all are different." right?!

peace - martin

[aleuzzi]

Originally Posted by lazy poker

. . . don't worry (be happy), aleuzzi - no offence taken!

but keep the following facts in mind:
the shack's first 45 featured christine's vocals on the all-important A-SIDE, while their third single had christine singing on BOTH sides even, not to mention their biggest hit ever (single #4), "i'd rather go blind" - and by the time of this '69 paris concert, all that had already happened. so talking of christine as a hired sideman might have been true in the first place, but not in 1969 anymore.

on the other hand . . . in mid-april that year chicken shack already started the first recording sessions with christine's replacement, paul raymond. so we're talking about one of the last gigs before christine's departing from the group, which must have been decided and known to the band by then. so stan might have deemed it better not to feature her any longer explicitly, to avoid a potential striking gap between her and her future successor. it's a thought that popped into me head . . .

and, just by the way - this is what ace-producer mike vernon had to say about that chicken shack line-up:
"they had the it-girl of the blues world in christine perfect (. . .) and an OUTSTANDING HARD, DRIVING RHYTHM SECTION in andy silvester and dave bidwell." and: "a more solid bass man than andy silvester you will never find."
and paul raymond considered dave bidwell to be "possibly the best blues drummer around, next to mick fleetwood”.

so at least i'm in some pretty decent company with my point of view on this matter. but - as a very wise man once said: "one thing in common is we all are different." right?!

peace - martin

Hey, I hear ya. I have the complete Blue Horizon Chicken Shack discs (and the first two individual ones) and enjoy them. To me, she is the main draw. They'd have otherwise been interchangeable from any number of blues acts from that time. Critic Samuel Graham called their albums "torpid" and typical of lesser acts from the British Blues Boom--but that's probably too harsh. I just think they're merely competent in comparison to Mac's blues offerings.

You are right that the band chose McVie's "It's Okay with Me Baby" as its first single, but I thought Vernon said in the liner notes to the above compellation that this was determined by a coin toss. I know Vernon always held her work in high regard, more so, perhaps, than Webb himself. By the time "I'd Rather Go Blind" was chosen as a single, the critics and the fans--as I mentioned in the first of our post conversations--had made their interest in her singing and playing well known.

[FuzzyPlum]

Originally Posted by aleuzzi

Hey, I hear ya. I have the complete Blue Horizon Chicken Shack discs (and the first two individual ones) and enjoy them. To me, she is the main draw. They'd have otherwise been interchangeable from any number of blues acts from that time. Critic Samuel Graham called their albums "torpid" and typical of lesser acts from the British Blues Boom--but that's probably too harsh. I just think they're merely competent in comparison to Mac's blues offerings.

You are right that the band chose McVie's "It's Okay with Me Baby" as its first single, but I thought Vernon said in the liner notes to the above compellation that this was determined by a coin toss. I know Vernon always held her work in high regard, more so, perhaps, than Webb himself. By the time "I'd Rather Go Blind" was chosen as a single, the critics and the fans--as I mentioned in the first of our post conversations--had made their interest in her singing and playing well known.

Do you think Stan Webb was annoyed with Christine leaving (at the time)? I can appreciate he possibly looks back now with some bitterness about how their careers panned out, but how did he feel at the time? On the one hand I can imagine him being p****d off that the singer that brought the band some success wanted to leave. On the other hand I wonder whether he felt overshadowed by I'd Rather Go Blind's success and therefore not too displeased with her leaving. I tend to get the feeling he had a chip on his shoulder and may have had his nose put out of joint by Christine being a big draw. After all, I'm sure at the time he probably thought they were going to be a success with or without her.

[lazy poker]

Originally Posted by FuzzyPlum

Do you think Stan Webb was annoyed with Christine leaving (at the time)? I can appreciate he possibly looks back now with some bitterness about how their careers panned out, but how did he feel at the time? On the one hand I can imagine him being p****d off that the singer that brought the band some success wanted to leave. On the other hand I wonder whether he felt overshadowed by I'd Rather Go Blind's success and therefore not too displeased with her leaving. I tend to get the feeling he had a chip on his shoulder and may have had his nose put out of joint by Christine being a big draw. After all, I'm sure at the time he probably thought they were going to be a success with or without her.

hard to say, i think.

stan has never been much of a team player and always very keen on grabbing the spotlight for himself. and what he lacked in feeling and technique (and that was quite a lot) he always tried to hide behind (acoustic and visual) gimmicks. and as aleuzzi quite rightly remarked: as the real musical highlight of the band chris quickly increased the draw for the band. and with that it must have dawned on stan that he found himself in a difficult position.

so what were his real thoughts like? i bet one wouldn't get an honest comment from the man himself on asking. as an interviewee he can be a real pain in the ass, especially on topics from yesteryears. speaking of which . . . at a chicken shack (sorry . . . STAN WEBB'S chicken shack!) gig some 15 years ago i stood right in front of the stage wearing a blue horizon t-shirt. when he saw that, he immediately started ranting into the audience about the blue horizon guys being a bunch of assholes, having ripped him off and still owing him a whole lotta money. so he surely looks back in bitterness anyway . . . but that's definitely not our christine's fault!