Tonight - Bill O v. Bill M

[gldstwmn]

Originally posted by strandinthewind
There is gossip that the draft will be reinstated after the election if W wins. But, I have no way of confirming that etc. So, take it for what it is worth.

.

Yes, I have heard this but am so glad it came out of your mouth, so to speak.

[Sugar]

Originally posted by strandinthewind
Well, North Korea is factually different in that the UN is not as involved and, unlike the Middle East, let that idiot leader of North Korea go one step past what China is willing to put up with and North Korea will be part of China. So, I think the ousting of him can be acheived via other methods. If not, however, then yes, I say we take him out. After all he HAS nukes and is nuts.

Can I get an approximate timeline from you on this--

What I'm saying that as far as I know there is a son waiting to take Dad's place and he isn't any different. Your opinion is that Iraq was in a dominant place in the Middle East so "us big guys" had to go in there, but you're content to let China police that part of the world?

[strandinthewind]

Originally posted by Sugar
Can I get an approximate timeline from you on this--

What I'm saying that as far as I know there is a son waiting to take Dad's place and he isn't any different. Your opinion is that Iraq was in a dominant place in the Middle East so "us big guys" had to go in there, but you're content to let China police that part of the world?

In the end - if it costs less US soldiers' lives - yes, let the Chinese do it. I do not, however, think China will let it come to that. I mean they are far less diplomatic about things then America is and THAT is saying alot Not to mention Japan.

In the end, I wish the UN would do it. But, the UN has proved to be inept at stopping world conflict and I am not just talking about Iraq.

[Sugar]

Originally posted by strandinthewind
In the end - if it costs less US soldiers' lives - yes, let the Chinese do it. I do not, however, think China will let it come to that. I mean they are far less diplomatic about things then America is and THAT is saying alot Not to mention Japan.

China's got an awful lot on its plate these days, but I guess that's one thing you can say about the Communists: they usually feed the soldiers. ANYWAY do you know China's opinion on things these days? How concerned are they with North Korea?

[strandinthewind]

Originally posted by Sugar
China's got an awful lot on its plate these days, but I guess that's one thing you can say about the Communists: they usually feed the soldiers. ANYWAY do you know China's opinion on things these days? How concerned are they with North Korea?

Well, the newspapers in the West have printed that China is opposed to NK having nukes, etc. Moreover, I do know China historically has shown little patience or regard for basic human rights as perceived in the West. So, I conclude China will not tolerate any act of aggression by NK and any action China may take will be done with little regard to human rights. Having said all of that, I think NK will buckle under international pressure. I mean I may be wrong, but unlike Iraq, everyone is on board with the idea that NK should disarm its nukes.

[gldstwmn]

I wonder how much of our debt the Chinese actually own right now?

[gldstwmn]

http://www.journalstandard.com/artic...inion/op02.txt

Bush's dismal record speaks for itself
By Steve Spyrison


In less than 11 months we will be electing the next president of the United States. Our current president has the polished appearance of a sincere, devout gentleman who gives the convincing impression that he is working hard for the best interests of our country. He prays openly, which pleases many.

Here is a little more of the picture of this man and the accomplishments of the present administration and his immediate history:

He was elected governor of Texas with the endorsement of his father and help of the oil industry, including Enron CEO Ken Lay. During his governorship he helped change Texas pollution laws to favor power and oil companies, making Texas the most polluted state in the union. During that time, Houston displaced Los Angeles as the most polluted city in our country. He helped set a record number of executions - more than any other governor in American history. He cut taxes and bankrupted the Texas treasury to the tune of billions in borrowed money.

With the help of his brother, the governor of Florida, and his father's Supreme Court appointments, he became president after losing by a half million votes. In his first year in office, more than two million Americans lost their jobs and America continues to lose more. He spent more time on vacation than any other president. He set the record for most campaign fund-raising trips and holds the U.S. and world record for receiving the most corporate campaign donations. He has appointed more convicted criminals to his administration and his cabinet is the wealthiest presidential cabinet ever.

While professing fiscal responsibility under this administration, we have observed the highest gasoline prices, the greatest drop in the U.S. stock market, the most private bankruptcies filed and the most bank foreclosures. He has given tax rebates, cut taxes and shattered the record for the largest annual federal deficit.

One week before Sept. 11, 2001, U.S. representatives walked out of the U.N. Council on Human Rights, which at the time was focusing on Israel's treatment of its neighbors. His stated goal early in office was to "win the first war of the 21st century," and he bombed Baghdad during his first 30 days in office. Under this administration, for the first time ever in the history of the United States, a pre-emptive attack and military occupation of another nation was ordered. And he did so against the will of the United Nations, the majority of U.S. citizens and the world community. Seven "Axis of Evil" nations have been named, and two countries have been invaded with costs expected to rise to nearly $200 billion soon. In the State of the Union address he was dishonest about our reasons for attacking Iraq and then cited our allies, the British, for his misinformation.

While the U.S. has long held world respect, we now are at the lowest point in world opinion; through the eyes of the world we are no longer seen as defenders of human rights but as the military aggressor. After months of U.N. weapons inspections and being advised that no weapons of mass destruction were found in Iraq, our administration insisted there were.

None have been found during our occupation. On our own home front, he supports the development of the nuclear Tactical Bunker Buster, which is a WMD, and we have withdrawn from the International Ban on Nuclear Weapons Treaty. While we had strong worldwide sympathy following the World Trade Center attacks, less than a year later, for the first time in history, the majority (71 percent) of Europeans viewed our president personally as the single greatest threat to world peace and security. Our leader set the all-time record for simultaneous protests against his actions in public venues (15 million people) - more than anyone else in the history of mankind. His visit was not well received while recently visiting our closest military ally - England.

Under this administration, we are the only western nation to fail to sign the Kyoto Protocol for greenhouse gas emissions reduction, and the only nation among 130 to refuse to sign on the world ban on land mines. Of 192 nations that signed the U.N. Convention on the Rights of the Child, only the U.S. and Somalia have not signed on. He withdrew from the World Court of Law.

We were the only country to be removed by the United Nations from the Human Rights Commission. He has broken more international treaties than any other U.S. president. He violated the Geneva Convention by refusing to allow inspectors access to U.S. prisoners of war. He was also the first president to refuse U.N. election inspectors during the 2002 elections.

Friends at Enron and Halliburton were protected against investigation or prosecution. More money was spent on investigating the Monica Lewinsky affair than investigations into one of the largest corporate scandals in history. Under the name of national security, we have fewer rights than before and, at the same time, all records of SEC investigation into Bush's insider trading and bankrupt companies are now being kept secret. Also sealed and unavailable to the public are records or minutes of public energy policy meetings that he or the vice president attended. He refused to intervene when corruption involving the oil industry was revealed during the biggest energy crisis in history.

And he has made the fewest number of press conferences of any president since the inception of television.

This, to the best of my knowledge, is an accurate summary of the recent tenure. There is no need to express an opinion here as this brief history speaks for itself. Thanks for reading.

[dissention]

JEEZUM CROW!!!!

Ya'll have been busy since I last logged in, dammit! I'm going to be here for an hour reading and responding!

Thanks a lot!!

[dissention]

Originally posted by strandinthewind
Did you actually just argue this? I am a little floored. Are you saying it is okay for a male boss to use his superiority to get sexual favors, which by all accounts Clinton did and repeatedly at that. Moreover, is it okay for a woman to sleep her way to the top? If your answer is yes, I am going to call you a Republican

What frigging post did you read?

[dissention]

Originally posted by jwd
Okay that was fun(ny), but seriously(back to the topic somewhat) I wanted to say that Bill Maher's show Politically Incorrect was a piece of crap. You liberals talk about how biased O'Reilly supposedly is. How can you not say that his show was nothing more than liberal propaganda? His panel was undisputedly tilted in his favor or in favor of his viewpoints. Not to mention his audience. I think Bill just wanted to "make believe" that almost everyone agreed with him. Puhhlease!!!


Joe

You obviously never watched the show, pal, and you most certainly never watched his show on HBO. The show is about political incorrectness, which in itself is part of the "liberal agenda." It was a dig at a liberal cause. Also, Maher ALWAYS had conservatives on his program who were then challenged by liberal guests about certain areas of politics. He has Ann Coulter on quite frequently, Dennis Miller, many Republican reps and congressmen, former Republican cabinet members, etc. It would have been a pretty dull show if all of the guests agreed with him because they loved to spread the "liberal propaganda."

[dissention]

Originally posted by gldstwmn
The Bush regime bears similarities to that of Nazi Germany.

Amen.

The intolerance and deceit that they foster reminds me of Nazi Germany.

[dissention]

Originally posted by jwd
I totally agree Jason. I think saying that W. told a flat out lie leading us into war is stretching it a bit. However there's no disputing that Slick Willy LIED UNDER OATH, amongst other things. I could care less if Clinton was getting blow jobs in back alleys or strip clubs or wherever, it's the circumstances that matter to me. It's not just about blow jobs people!


Joe

He lied under oath and Bush violated the laws of the Geneva Convention. Which, I ask you, is more disturbing???

[dissention]

Originally posted by strandinthewind
And I am not disagreeing with you in principle. i am just saying they are far from Nazi's and some of the to me irrelevant points cloud this exact point.
BTW - while I am sure Paul O. is telling the truth, he does come off as a pissed off fired employee. To me, his book would have more apparent credibility if he had toned down the rhetoric.

1. This administration has taken away civil liberties and human rights, justifying it with the word "safety." Very Nazi-esque to me.

2. Paul's book hasn't been released yet, read it before you review it.

[gldstwmn]

Originally posted by dissention
JEEZUM CROW!!!!

Ya'll have been busy since I last logged in, dammit! I'm going to be here for an hour reading and responding!

Thanks a lot!!

Honey, all hell was breaking loose here a little while ago.

[dissention]

Originally posted by strandinthewind
Actually, Bill O-Reilly lambastes Bush fairly regularly. Hence, my calliong him a moderate. But, you are correct, like with Clinton, the party faithful just blindly follow - a little like lemmings in this case IMO.

He didn't until a few months ago, doll. I'm still waiting for his apology to the American people.