Worst FM album?

[sjpdg]

Originally Posted by bluefox4000

I'll say it....I LOVE the Derelict. So Poo on you

Mick

"Poo on you"? Everybody has a right to an opinion, but really.

Peace to you.

[tilthefirefades]

Worst in the sense of the history of the band has to be Rumours. It really did kill the band. It ruined the attraction of growth and exploration in their sound. Before Rumours they could have come out with anything and it would have been this estranged artistic experiment. But Rumours was so perfectly produced and constructed that everything has to be the same. It created a monetary construct that Lindsey constantly struggled to fight, hence his insane solo career. Now I'm not sure any of them fight it. If any of the bandmates really cared about their artistic integrity they would probably deny any tours that featured the same slop over and over. Sisters and Not That Funny are lazy additions among the obnoxiously ordinary setlist.

Worst in my opinion? I unfortunately have to say Mirage. Didn't care for Christine's contributions beyond Hold Me. Although Lindsey's are great in my opinion, they pale in comparison to his potential. Beyond the fact that I am a total Chiffonhead, Stevie really carried this album to it's short lived recognition.

[jwd]

Originally Posted by tilthefirefades

Worst in the sense of the history of the band has to be Rumours. It really did kill the band.

You mean the one that's still touring to this day? If anything Rumours was the catalyst that kept this band going! Please stop the Rumours bashing. One of the greatest albums of all time. The band knew it, we know it, history knows it!!!!!!

[bluefox4000]

Originally Posted by sjpdg

"Poo on you"? Everybody has a right to an opinion, but really.

Peace to you.

Relax.....I was kidding.

Peace to you as well.

Mick

[becca]

Originally Posted by sjpdg

So, basically, everything that started the band, you don't like?! That's bizarre. Had it not been for Peter, there would be no Fleetwood Mac, and Stevie and Lindsey would likely have squandered in obscurity. Lindsey would likely have made it with another band, but not likely that whomever that band was would have taken the "package" deal that Lindsey offered Mick that brought Stevie on board.

To each their own; some people like unprocessed guitar that B.B.King recognized as the highest quality and some like super-glossy drum machine music enhanced with fifty vocal overdubs and hand clapping effects.

The thing that gets me with things like Tusk, Mirage and Tango is that Buckingham is an excellent guitarist who I enjoy a lot, it's just as a producer he drives me up the wall! I don't get that wall of sound Pet Sounds worship thing either so many have. To me it so often buries what I'm into with pointless icing layered on. I love Wish You Were Here on Mirage, maybe because it has the least processing?

I'll still take the 'worst' Mac album over the best by many others!

[redbird]

Originally Posted by sjpdg

While "Behind The Mask" might have some elements of "over production", it's still better than "Penguin" by thousands of miles in my opinion. "Time" is by no means anywhere near the best of FM's work, it's not as bad as a lot of people make it out to be. Can anyone really say that "The Derelict" and "Roadrunner" are better than "Save Me" or "Winds Of Change"? I'd rather listen to cats in heat than "The Derelict" or "Roadrunner".

"Roadrunner" was the song that I realized I had to skip in order to "get" Penguin. "The Derelict", however, I actually like, as out of place as it may seem. And I prefer either to "Save Me".

[PenguinHead]

Originally Posted by tilthefirefades

Worst in the sense of the history of the band has to be Rumours. It really did kill the band. It ruined the attraction of growth and exploration in their sound. Before Rumours they could have come out with anything and it would have been this estranged artistic experiment. But Rumours was so perfectly produced and constructed that everything has to be the same. It created a monetary construct that Lindsey constantly struggled to fight, hence his insane solo career. Now I'm not sure any of them fight it. If any of the bandmates really cared about their artistic integrity they would probably deny any tours that featured the same slop over and over. Sisters and Not That Funny are lazy additions among the obnoxiously ordinary setlist.

I completely understand what you are saying, and I have to agree. The massive success of Rumours set a precedent, and, in Lindsey's terms, the "Big Machine" was created, which fundamentally ****ed up their priorities and stunted their creative streak to a certain point. I give big love and credit to Lindsey for making the effort to avoid that.

Tusk was and is a very significant work in that matter. Yet the backlash for not following the status-quo really bruised his ego, and he retreated. Only in his solo career could he branch out. Law and Order was so out of left field because it furthered his statement of rebellion, and the origins of the Small Machine. With Christine's departure, he is now the single driving force of the band. Let's hope stubborn Stevie will get on board. I'd love to see them do an album as quirky, loose and challenging as Tusk, and not one so uniformly steely and morose as Say You Will.

[becca]

Originally Posted by PenguinHead

Tusk was and is a very significant work in that matter. Yet the backlash for not following the status-quo really bruised his ego, and he retreated. Only in his solo career could he branch out. Law and Order was so out of left field because it furthered his statement of rebellion, and the origins of the Small Machine. With Christine's departure, he is now the single driving force of the band. Let's hope stubborn Stevie will get on board. I'd love to see them do an album as quirky, loose and challenging as Tusk, and not one so uniformly steely and morose as Say You Will.

This is interesting as I seem to have things differently in my head. I saw Rumours as more the start of overly-polishing and over-dubbing everything. The band were obviously fragmented on a personal basis of which much is made and often couldn't be in the room together for long, sort of like with The Beatles' White Album. Tusk was an exaggeration of that so it was more phoned in by some and Buckingham was left to obsessively polish everything and put a lot of solo stuff on as a group recording. To top Rumours he went further into layering on effects, and odd sounds like the marching band, and a t6wo LP set no matter if there was two LPs of material there. Ambitious yes, successful, not so much I felt. As someone who bought the stuff when it came out I felt he was following Elvis Costello and Joe Jackson and the new wave guys rather than being originally driven, and I missed his excellent guitar either buried under the effects and icing or not there at all in favor of quirky synths in place of band members.

Probably the real fault of Tusk to me is the laziness of the other members or their distractions in planning solo albums. Plus the hair styles were so elaborate and expensive in the photos, and that always puts me off an artist!

I just don't see Tusk as Fleetwood Mac album. It is bits of what might have been one and a lot of solo Buckingham stuff, much half finished in my opinion and suffering from a sameness where they almost make one mass of quirk popping up between Christine and Stevie second drawer material that had to be made do with.

I'm glad some people enjoyed it where I was disappointed. Next to albums by Costello, Jackson, The Clash, Boomtown Rats, various skinny-tie U.S. power-pop (The Nerve, Cars, Blondie, Talking Heads) and whatever else I had around at the time it seemed second rate unfortunately but honestly. To you it was genuine rebellion and to me it was grasping and following a trend.

Thank you Tusk defenders for the opportunity to think and listen further though! I guess I'm a hopeless Derelict enjoyer, it moved in with me some time ago along with Danny and Peter and Bob, after I bought Tusk all excited and then found myself almost never playing it.

[Dreamz19]

Penguin, Mirage and Behind the Mask.

[MikeInNV]

Originally Posted by becca

This is interesting as I seem to have things differently in my head. I saw Rumours as more the start of overly-polishing and over-dubbing everything. The band were obviously fragmented on a personal basis of which much is made and often couldn't be in the room together for long, sort of like with The Beatles' White Album. Tusk was an exaggeration of that so it was more phoned in by some and Buckingham was left to obsessively polish everything and put a lot of solo stuff on as a group recording. To top Rumours he went further into layering on effects, and odd sounds like the marching band, and a t6wo LP set no matter if there was two LPs of material there. Ambitious yes, successful, not so much I felt. As someone who bought the stuff when it came out I felt he was following Elvis Costello and Joe Jackson and the new wave guys rather than being originally driven, and I missed his excellent guitar either buried under the effects and icing or not there at all in favor of quirky synths in place of band members.

Probably the real fault of Tusk to me is the laziness of the other members or their distractions in planning solo albums. Plus the hair styles were so elaborate and expensive in the photos, and that always puts me off an artist!

I just don't see Tusk as Fleetwood Mac album. It is bits of what might have been one and a lot of solo Buckingham stuff, much half finished in my opinion and suffering from a sameness where they almost make one mass of quirk popping up between Christine and Stevie second drawer material that had to be made do with.

I'm glad some people enjoyed it where I was disappointed. Next to albums by Costello, Jackson, The Clash, Boomtown Rats, various skinny-tie U.S. power-pop (The Nerve, Cars, Blondie, Talking Heads) and whatever else I had around at the time it seemed second rate unfortunately but honestly. To you it was genuine rebellion and to me it was grasping and following a trend.

Thank you Tusk defenders for the opportunity to think and listen further though! I guess I'm a hopeless Derelict enjoyer, it moved in with me some time ago along with Danny and Peter and Bob, after I bought Tusk all excited and then found myself almost never playing it.

Interesting to read your take on things. While there are mixed feelings about Christine's songs, when people use the words "lazy" and "second drawer material" with Stevie, they are almost never talking about the Tusk album.

[michelej1]

Originally Posted by MikeInNV

Interesting to read your take on things. While there are mixed feelings about Christine's songs, when people use the words "lazy" and "second drawer material" with Stevie, they are almost never talking about the Tusk album.

I know. I guess Stevie just didn't bring her "A" game to Tusk like she did for Tango .

Michele

[Villavic]

Originally Posted by michelej1

I know. I guess Stevie just didn't bring her "A" game to Tusk like she did for Tango .

Michele

More than not bringing the best stuff, I think she wasn't as good in 1987 as in the 70s. Her solo albums weren't so good in early 90s and late 80s

[SteveMacD]

Originally Posted by Villavic

More than not bringing the best stuff, I think she wasn't as good in 1987 as in the 70s.

It's not that she wasn't AS good, she just wasn't good, period.

[becca]

The best track on Tusk would've been Sara but not at almost nine minutes which is what it was on the original 2LP set. I was like 'I paid four bucks more than for a single album for this'? I bought Bella Donna when it arrived anyway, and Mirage, and thought both far better. Your milage may vary, this is just how I felt when I was in my early teens and on my way to wearing out out two cassettes of Rumours and made a dent on both the 1975 album and Rumours on vinyl as well.

[becca]

Originally Posted by SteveMacD

It's not that she wasn't AS good, she just wasn't good, period.

I disagree with that, as with politics and religion I find myself someplace in the middle among motivated extremes.

Over time I have listened to Christine's songs by far more than the non-Chris ones from the 1975-on releases. But Buckingham and Nicks are both extremely talented and skillful in my opinion. If there were a Fritz collection or new pre-Mac recordings I'd be there early in line.