Why the disdain for Mick?

[MacShadowsBall]

I'm glad that this is being discussed, because I have never understood the dislike/disdane/borderline hatred towards Mick Fleetwood. How can anybody call themselves a Fleetwood Mac fan when he or she can't stand Mick Fleetwood.

As far as the recent FM tours, I'm sure thousands of fans enjoyed them as I do watching youtube videos. We weren't exactly getting new Mac songs after Say You Will as Stevie and Lindsey were concentrating on their respective solo careers. Unfortunately that leaves Mick AND John out in the cold.

Lastly when I make of FM related purchase, I don't say to myself, "Boy I hope Mick and company spend my money wisely." Instead I say, "Boy I hope I ENJOY this album/CD/DVD or whatever I just purchased for my ENJOYMENT!

[michelej1]

Originally Posted by SteveMacD

Heaven forbid the drummer for the band that gave us "Rumours" writes a tell-all autobiography.

I'm glad Mick wrote a book. I wish he'd written more of it.

When you write a book, odds are even higher that people will form an opinion of who you are and what they think about that person, than if you hadn't written one. I assume that's what the author wants. That's what he gets.

I was just writing someone about Shirley Temple based on what Myrna Loy said about her in The Bachelor and the Bobby Soxer. Then, I went on to note that I didn't like the way Loy used third party quotes to complain about her co-stars instead of coming out and criticizing them herself, when that is what she clearly wanted to do.

The thing is, if Myrna Loy had never written a book, I would know nothing about her except that I liked her work, the Thin Man movies especially, but she put herself out there in an autobiography and I have a fuller impression of who I think she is and what I like and dislike about that person.

Same with Mick.

Michele

[michelej1]

Originally Posted by MacShadowsBall

I'm glad that this is being discussed, because I have never understood the dislike/disdane/borderline hatred towards Mick Fleetwood. How can anybody call themselves a Fleetwood Mac fan when he or she can't stand Mick Fleetwood.

I think it would be pretty darn easy to like Fleetwood Mac and not like Mick.

I liked Sonny and Cher tremendously and didn't like Cher.

Compartmentalize, baby.

Michele

[RockawayBlind]

Originally Posted by MacShadowsBall

I'm glad that this is being discussed, because I have never understood the dislike/disdane/borderline hatred towards Mick Fleetwood. How can anybody call themselves a Fleetwood Mac fan when he or she can't stand Mick Fleetwood.

So you can't be a fan of a band if you dislike one member!?

[HomerMcvie]

I think Mick is a very nice guy, and a very well meaning guy. Just not a very smart guy. He's always chosen to live beyond his long term means, and when the slim times come around, "Oh, there's our Mick, in financial trouble again!".

He wants to live like Stevie, but he ain't got the bank for it. Or the wisdom to realize that he doesn't.

[louielouie2000]

Originally Posted by RockawayBlind

So you can't be a fan of a band if you dislike one member!?

Originally Posted by michelej1

I think it would be pretty darn easy to like Fleetwood Mac and not like Mick.

I liked Sonny and Cher tremendously and didn't like Cher.

Compartmentalize, baby.

Michele

Originally Posted by HomerMcvie

I think Mick is a very nice guy, and a very well meaning guy. Just not a very smart guy. He's always chosen to live beyond his long term means, and when the slim times come around, "Oh, there's our Mick, in financial trouble again!".

He wants to live like Stevie, but he ain't got the bank for it. Or the wisdom to realize that he doesn't.

I also think it's possible to totally roll your eyes at any given band member's behavior, yet still adore their musical talent. Same thing goes for being a Stevie fan (for instance), but not liking every single one of her songs. Just because we are fans of this band doesn't mean we have to accept the whole package lock, stock, and barrel with unquestioned adoration.

[KarmaContestant]

Originally Posted by SteveMacD

Stevie's in a band. She verbally committed to that band and then pulled out. She was irresponsible to those she committed to. She complains enough about the band/Lindsey that she should be able to take it.

I can agree with that, but it's unfair to target Stevie when everyone has quit Fleetwood Mac at one time or another except Mick and John. The great thing about verbal agreements is that they are nonbinding. Stevie not committing to a tour has nothing whatsoever to do with Mick's financial woes.

Originally Posted by SteveMacD

Maybe in 1987, but not not since. And, really, Fleetwood Mac bailed out Stevie and Lindsey more than once. They were nobodies going nowhere in 1974, and their careers had stalled by 1994. (Yeah, "Time" bombed, but at least they have the excuse of doing absolutely no promotion for it. What were Stevie's and Lindsey's excuses?) That's why Lindsey hired Mick to play drums on GOS. He knew that Mick would break up that version of Fleetwood Mac (which was already falling apart on its own) for a probable reunion of the classic line-up.

Well, that's an interesting opinion, because from my perspective it's pretty clear to me that even though Stevie and Lindsey were going nowhere, so was Fleetwood Mac. I would say it's the other way around - in both cases - Lindsey and Stevie bailed out Fleetwood Mac. No one could have predicted it, but in hindsight, it's obvious. Yes, The Dance reignited all three careers, that is undeniable, but it wasn't Stevie who came knocking on their door. She is the one who had to be persuaded, and without her and Lindsey, The Dance would never have had any traction.

Originally Posted by SteveMacD

It's called being in the band. Mick doesn't get any significant royalty money. The only way he makes money on Fleetwood Mac is when the band tours. How hypocritical everyone is by stating "ooh, Mick needs bailed out again" when Stevie, Lindsey, and Christine all make money on Fleetwood Mac whether or not the band is active.

The issue isn't how Mick makes his money - I'm well aware that as a band member who neither writes nor produces, that his income options are limited. The basis of the thread was why some fans show disdain for Mick - I answered the question with a point of view I've seen expressed - Mick is bad at managing money and has squandered, more than once, many, many times more money than any of us will see in our lives, collectively, and has gone public with his money woes more than once. There is nothing hypocritical about pointing out Mick's money woes. Billions of people make less money in their entire lives than he does from one tour, and they manage to live within their means. To claim that he can't afford his divorce because of Stevie not wanting to tour is quite rude when the reality is that he couldn't afford his divorce because he has a problem managing his own finances.

I'll reiterate, I don't have any disdain for Mick. I am just, unlike some, capable of seeing both sides of a story and I presented my theory as to why some fans might dislike Mick or look down on him.

[MacShadowsBall]

Originally Posted by michelej1

I think it would be pretty darn easy to like Fleetwood Mac and not like Mick.

I liked Sonny and Cher tremendously and didn't like Cher.

Compartmentalize, baby.

Michele

I just don't understand. If you like Sonny and Cher and didn't like Cher, then you just liked Sonny.

Originally Posted by RockawayBlind

So you can't be a fan of a band if you dislike one member!?

When that member is one of the founding members, his name, his drums crafting that FM sound, yeah I have a hard time understanding how one can dislike/hate him. He is/was responsible for keeping our favorite band together for 47 years, when others including Christine, Lindsey, AND Stevie weren't interested.

Originally Posted by louielouie2000

Just because we are fans of this band doesn't mean we have to accept the whole package lock, stock, and barrel with unquestioned adoration.

I certainly have my criticisms of the band's activity and various decisions they've made over the 47 years. Excessive drug abuse is high (no pun intended) on the list.

I've noticed also that everybody likes John, probably because he remains quiet and out of the spotlight and doesn't express his opinion too much. Just like on the job in real life, you can't hate the shy, quite guy, but the one that's going around being a leader, rocking the boat, voicing his opinions/concerns gets all the attention, both good and bad.

[elle]

Originally Posted by MacShadowsBall

I've noticed also that everybody likes John, probably because he remains quiet and out of the spotlight and doesn't express his opinion too much. Just like on the job in real life, you can't hate the shy, quite guy, but the one that's going around being a leader, rocking the boat, voicing his opinions/concerns gets all the attention, both good and bad.

yes, i've noticed that too, John gets a pass and lots of love, seemingly mostly because he doesn't say anything so people project whatever they want him to be.

[elle]

other than bad handling of his finances (that has been discussed way too much already), these are the other reasons i see listed, and i'm still puzzled by most of them:

Originally Posted by RockawayBlind

Yeah, I think people are forgetting how much of a disaster that website was. So many people got banned from it for very silly reasons.

this one i can understand - people expressing dislike if they were personally burned, like this seems to indicate.

Originally Posted by RockawayBlind

Also, I think people forget how disloyal he was to the rest of the band with his book that came out around 1990. There was a fair number of untruths in it, and Lindsey even responded to it with his song "Wrong" on the Out of the Cradle CD.

but if these band members are over this, as they seem to be, i don't get why fans keep holding the grudge?

Originally Posted by KarmaContestant

I'll say it again - Then he should keep his financial woes to himself - or ask Stevie to stop telling everyone that she has to put her solo career aside *again* so Mick can tour 'cause he needs the money.

i don't really see how he can stop Stevie from saying whatever she wants to.

Originally Posted by BlueDenimLamp

This is one of the things I don't like about Mick...Stevie was nice enough to invite Mick to play on her record (IYD) and she even portrays him as a fairly charming guy in the IYD doc and how did he return the favor???While Stevie was doing her "IYD" thing Mick publicly complained about not working and stating that he feared that FM might never tour again...He even went so far as to accuse certain band members (Stevie) of not being loyal to the band...

i'm not sure how Mick playing on Stevie's album is a favor to him? i would think it's a favor that he did for her. what did he gain by helping her out?

[Phil]

MacShadowsBall wrote:

I've noticed also that everybody likes John...

I beg to differ...

[MacShadowsBall]

Phil and others...

Do you know of anything where fans have said bad things about John? Now I've only been in fandom/Ledgie for about four years, but I have heard very little. Perhaps back in the day things were said/believed/felt by fans. I don't know how well he treated Christine back in his drinking days. Suffice it to say, none of them treated each other all that great from about '76-'87.

Really interesting conversations, by the way....

[SteveMacD]

Originally Posted by MacShadowsBall

Phil and others...

Do you know of anything where fans have said bad things about John? Now I've only been in fandom/Ledgie for about four years, but I have heard very little. Perhaps back in the day things were said/believed/felt by fans. I don't know how well he treated Christine back in his drinking days. Suffice it to say, none of them treated each other all that great from about '76-'87.

Really interesting conversations, by the way....

John dressed as a Nazi, and Christine in blackface and 1979–1980, and people still hold it against him.

[michelej1]

Originally Posted by MacShadowsBall

I just don't understand. If you like Sonny and Cher and didn't like Cher, then you just liked Sonny.

No, I loved Cher as a member of Sonny and Cher, as a singer, comedian and entertainer within that construct. I didn't like her outside of it.

As for Mick, there are lots of people who know FM songs and like them quite a bit, have all the albums, but just see Mick as the drummer. Not a founder, not a glue that keeps the whole thing together. They don't delve into the entire history of a musical act. They don't read every interview or maybe they do read every interview and decided that despite his talent and contributions to the band, his personality is obnoxious.

Maybe they saw him up there with Samantha Fox and decided he was a loser, although his band is cool and their opinion of him has nothing to do with the band. Maybe they like Christine, Lindsey and Stevie and loathe Mick. It's not hard to dislike him and to also like the band at all.

What I don't understand is the (1) the whole "how can you call yourself a fan" argument, and (2) why it's necessary to like someone because you like their talent. So, he held the band together, good for him. I pay him with my money. I don't have to pay him with my heart.

As for calling yourself a fan, I am not a fan of anyone's if it means I have to meet certain criteria and believe and say only certain things in order to maintain my fanship. I define what my fanship means. It doesn't define me. What a "fan" is is as different as what every individual is.

By your standards, I am not a Fleetwood Mac fan and wouldn't want to be. I'm just an interested observer and I like it like that, because I don't want to follow any guidelines except for my own for how to display or express my admiration, affection, appreciation and respect.

Michele

[bombaysaffires]

Originally Posted by elle

i'm not sure how Mick playing on Stevie's album is a favor to him? i would think it's a favor that he did for her. what did he gain by helping her out?

he got paid. As much as he loves Stevie, union rules is union rules.