Recent FM Recordings (SYW-Present) Observation

[aprilsrain]

I've actually liked a lot of the songs on both SYW and the EP. And I was watching the Destiny Rules documentary earlier today. All over the forums there's a lot of talks about production, problems, what people want to see out of a new album. A lot of talk has gone on about should LB produce it or bring in someone else. I actually like a lot of his production choices. I think they're edgy and interesting, and they have a distinct sound that separates him from other producers.

However, in recent listens as I've gotten excited about the band again, I've identified a trend that I think hinders a lot of the new songs, which are mostly from a songwriting perspective I believe equal to or surpass a lot of their predecessors. It's actually a pretty simple issue that saps the energy from a lot of the songs.

Tempo, or a slower BPM than most of their prior recordings. For those who aren't familiar, that refers to beats per minute. If you put a click track to a lot of FM's older work, the tracks are slightly faster than current ones, especially in the white album-rumours era. Now the band's known for their "mid tempo" songs, that's what make them popular, and they're still mid tempo, but as I said slightly on the slower side.

Look at the demo for Without You. It's really quick, and doesn't leave as much dead space as the EP version. It's the same song, sounds fine (though I as many here prefer the raw acoustic guitar as well), but for the length of it, the new version bogs down because it's recorded at such a slow BPM. The live versions play it just a hare faster, but still not up to the speed of the demo, which has a really nice innocent feel to it because of that speed.

Just listened to Say You Will, the title track again and that song feels like it lags just a little bit too, especially for such an uppity pop song.

What's the World Coming To, equally drags a little.

Even Sad Angel, I felt like if the tempo was pushed a hare it would have been a little stronger.

I could go through each track on both recordings and say dial it up a notch and it would add a little intensity.

Now if you look at In Your Dreams -- I don't get this feeling from most of the tracks. The Stevie songs there at least mostly feel like they're at the right tempo.

I wonder if this stems from Lindsey spending most of his time playing solo and mostly acoustic based albums/shows which lends itself to a slower, more laid back environment?

Be interesting to see others thoughts on this.

[TheWILDheart]

This could have something to do with Mick getting older. A lot of songs on stage have been slowed down and whilst I initially thought that this was just due to the band being a little older, it's most noticeable on heavy drum tracks. Especially "Tusk" and "The Chain". "Sara" was a tad slower too, which I was pleased about as it was more true to the original studio version - I always thought Mick played this a little bit too fast back in the day.

[RockawayBlind]

This is a very interesting point, and something that I have been subtly aware of but didn't put much thought into. I remember thinking when SYW came out that the beat on a lot of songs is very close to the same speed, from track to track. Over the years, as everything has become so canned in pop music, there has been some discussion about BPM, and if I remember correctly, a lot of the most popular songs fall somewhere in that 120 to 130 BPM range. And that's where I think a lot of these SYW songs are. That's a guess; I haven't measured the beats.

Now, was it intentional? Probably not. It's more a product of a lackluster approach than anything else, I suspect. Mick seems to have settled into a comfortable beat. Notice, except for things like Murrow and Illume, you mostly get a straight beat of bass followed by snare crash. Mick is not as interesting a drummer as he once was. That may have something to do with age, or it could be a reaction to criticism of pushing boundaries in the past with things like GYOW and Tusk (now two very much beloved songs).

But, in fairness, Mick can only work with what the songwriters bring him. It seems both Lindsey and Stevie kept bringing songs that were in that BPM range, and that's what they ended up with. Someone should have taken a step back and listened with a critical ear, and maybe replaced a song or two, especially since there were so many tracks available supposedly. This could also explain why there were some 11th-hour sequencing changes that apparently caused friction between Lindsey and Stevie. Maybe he noticed the similarity in beat and loaded Murrow and Illume at the front in an attempt to disguise it. When you really think about it, those songs should have been deeper in the mix. There were stronger tracks that belonged in those spots.

[aprilsrain]

Originally Posted by TheWILDheart

This could have something to do with Mick getting older. A lot of songs on stage have been slowed down and whilst I initially thought that this was just due to the band being a little older, it's most noticeable on heavy drum tracks. Especially "Tusk" and "The Chain". "Sara" was a tad slower too, which I was pleased about as it was more true to the original studio version - I always thought Mick played this a little bit too fast back in the day.

Ahh interesting! We were just discussing how good Mick is and how hard it must be to keep the drumming up like that at his age. That makes sense in a lot of ways. But most of the newer recordings have pretty simple beats so I think speeding those up a hair wouldn't be a big deal?

Without You is where it's really the most noticeable between demo version and the released product. That song was slowed down so much it hurts a lot of the tension from the original.

[chiliD]

Originally Posted by TheWILDheart

"Sara" was a tad slower too, which I was pleased about as it was more true to the original studio version - I always thought Mick played this a little bit too fast back in the day.

Gee...I wonder why THAT was? {sniff, sniff, snort, snort...chop, chop, chop}

[elle]

some really interesting discussion in this thread, loved reading it - slower BPM? stuff i would never in a million years come up with!!

Originally Posted by chiliD

Gee...I wonder why THAT was? {sniff, sniff, snort, snort...chop, chop, chop}

i saw chili posted so i was hoping for more insight on minors, majors, BPM... and then he posts this sobering observation about Mick's different speeds that even i could figure out on my own.

[aprilsrain]

Originally Posted by elle

some really interesting discussion in this thread, loved reading it - slower BPM? stuff i would never in a million years come up with!!


i saw chili posted so i was hoping for more insight on minors, majors, BPM... and then he posts this sobering observation about Mick's different speeds that even i could figure out on my own.

Another "fact of life of getting older" is they've dropped a lot of the newer songs to lower keys, same with playing the older songs live, just because of vocal considerations. That's something that nothing can be done about, though. It does create a feel of slightly less exciting because of that though. Tempo is controllable. Hopefully someone's watching for this next recording batch (if it happens).

[BigBigLove]

I really think this is a casualty of LB's production techniques clashing with band members' opinions rather than anything else. Lindsey extensively uses varispeed (literally, recording at variable speeds and then speeding the track back up to allow for rapid solos and some pitch alteration) in his solo recordings, and although that technique was kept for the SYW songs that were recorded for the aborted version of GOS, none of the other songs make any use of varispeed on any main track (rhythm guitar, drums, etc.).

When LB produces, he tends to record initial tracks at a slower tempo and then use varispeed to come up with a faster, glossier final track... we hear this technique all over Mirage, TITN, OOTC, etc., but it hasn't been used on a core track of any FM song since the TITN era. If you listen closely and compare LB solo with recent FM work, I believe the dichotomy becomes clear.

Personally, I don't believe Mick's age-related playing ability has any significant bearing on this, and even if it were the case it certainly wouldn't be a barrier in the studio given the varispeed technique discussed above. Songs like EOTW and Mick's WT solo were as fast and aggressive in 2013 as they were in 1997 (minus the hand drum, which was cut out for time constraints).

Just my .02

[shackin'up]

Very good observations, Bigbiglove. I'd say at least 2 dollars. If Lindsey wants to record another GOS-like song, I bet he can still go for an uptempo, brutal and ad hoc weird drumtrack that he has to learn again to do it live, because it was just created in the moment.

[aprilsrain]

Originally Posted by BigBigLove

I really think this is a casualty of LB's production techniques clashing with band members' opinions rather than anything else. Lindsey extensively uses varispeed (literally, recording at variable speeds and then speeding the track back up to allow for rapid solos and some pitch alteration) in his solo recordings, and although that technique was kept for the SYW songs that were recorded for the aborted version of GOS, none of the other songs make any use of varispeed on any main track (rhythm guitar, drums, etc.).

When LB produces, he tends to record initial tracks at a slower tempo and then use varispeed to come up with a faster, glossier final track... we hear this technique all over Mirage, TITN, OOTC, etc., but it hasn't been used on a core track of any FM song since the TITN era. If you listen closely and compare LB solo with recent FM work, I believe the dichotomy becomes clear.

Personally, I don't believe Mick's age-related playing ability has any significant bearing on this, and even if it were the case it certainly wouldn't be a barrier in the studio given the varispeed technique discussed above. Songs like EOTW and Mick's WT solo were as fast and aggressive in 2013 as they were in 1997 (minus the hand drum, which was cut out for time constraints).

Just my .02

I didn't think about that at all, that's a really interesting observation. I like it when the varispeed just creates some shinier stuff but when I can hear that's what he's doing it sounds on the cheesy side to me.

I was listening to Mirage today and wondering how on a lot of the backing vocals he seemed to be able to get all the vocals without any attack, they just kinda exist and are yummy sounding.

[SteveMacD]

I was looking for a funny internet image for "cocaine, it's a hell of a drug" and I kid you not, this was the fourth image.