This was likely a Business Decision - Page 2

Tango · #16 04-13-2018, 02:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jbrownsjr

Great point!!

There is a comparison, I agree. Here's the difference. The Pretenders are a totally different band. Lindsey is an integral member of Fleetwood Mac (or was, until this insanity began). If Chrissy Hind goes off and exhausts herself doing a solo gig, no problem- it reflects only on her. If Lindsey goes off with his solo plans and then is unable to do the PR crap that goes along with either gig, there will be some friction. Fleetwood Mac demands all. Does it matter? Well, if The Big Machine is financing the travel, hoteling, etc, I suspect The Big Machine has great expectations of it's members. For Lindsey doing this mingled tour is win-win. He gets critical PR exposure. His traveling and lodging is largely helped out by The Big Machine. Maybe Lindsey's solo outing with the intermingling could have been somewhat beneficial for Fleetwood Mac, but it chiefly benefitted Lindsey. (So what? Does it matter that Lindsey got the win win?) I do agree with the premise of the opening thread, that it is likely (and maybe largely) a business decision:

But I am suspecting the wish of The Big Machine was for Lindsey to have done his solo work in completion before or after Fleetwood Mac's outing. AGAIN, this is ALL a bunch of IFs. If Stevie was willing to accommodate Chrissy (and Chrissy, like Lindsey tours on a TINY scale compared to Fleetwood Mac), that was her choice. The PR for Stevie's small scale outing coupled with The Pretenders PR was tiny. Fleetwood Mac is the big machine. The FM Machine is not willing to compromise, and neither was Lindsey.

In the end, I think they are all damaged by this whole thing.

bwboy · #17 04-13-2018, 02:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jbrownsjr

Great point!!

This just seems biased, and I'll say why:

Using that argument, that Stevie didn't mind the Pretenders performing solo gigs during the 24 Karat Gold tour, it stands to reason Stevie wouldn't have minded Lindsey doing it during the upcoming tour, too. But the simple fact is, it's not an accurate comparison. Now, if Waddy or her backup singers or someone else in her band had performed with the Pretenders on their solo gigs, she probably would have had an issue with that, because she's paying her band for their time, including hotels, etc.

Furthermore, some people seem to forget that there are two other members of FM that might have had concerns about the two tours. But Lindsey fans are focused on Stevie and Mick, Stevie and Mick, Stevie and Mick. They think that Christine is bound by some sort of iron-clad contract that forces her to go along with FM. Christine can't possibly be in agreement with this decision to let Lindsey go. Perhaps they think Christine is at home crying in her pillow, because she's so devastated that Stevie and Mick have betrayed Lindsey this way, and there's. nothing. she. can. do. about. it. Well, maybe that makes them feel better.

Clearly, John and Christine have just as much a say as anyone else in the band. They could have demanded Lindsey be allowed any provisions he needed to be able to stay in FM, or they could have said they would walk. Or tour with Lindsey instead. Or they could have claimed they were not up to touring. They could have passed on letting Mike Campbell or Neil Finn join. They are not innocent bystanders here. Yet somehow, people direct their anger on Mick and Stevie only. Or they might respond "well I'm angry at them too!" but then go right back to Mick and Stevie.

FuzzyPlum · #18 04-13-2018, 02:57 PM

I can't speak for anyone else but I for one am pi$$ed off with all 4 of them.
I think you (bwboy) made a comment in another forum about people showing allegiances to their favourite members... well I can honestly say I've lost respect for Christine. I'm big enough and mature enough to appreciate Lindsey has been wronged and I'm not going to speak up for Christine just for the sake of it. I'm too much of a grown up for those sort of games.

bwboy · #19 04-13-2018, 03:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FuzzyPlum

I can't speak for anyone else but I for one am pi$$ed off with all 4 of them.
I think you (bwboy) made a comment in another forum about people showing allegiances to their favourite members... well I can honestly say I've lost respect for Christine. I'm big enough and mature enough to appreciate Lindsey has been wronged and I'm not going to speak up for Christine just for the sake of it. I'm too much of a grown up for those sort of games.

It probably was me, and while that may not apply to everyone, just look back at a number of these threads and you'll see "Stevie and Mick, Stevie and Mick" and no mention for Christine or John, except for the occasional "Christine is probably contracted to do this tour." It's important to remember there are, or were, 5 people in this band and a decision like this should reflect on all of them.

Macfan4life · #20 04-13-2018, 03:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bwboy

It probably was me, and while that may not apply to everyone, just look back at a number of these threads and you'll see "Stevie and Mick, Stevie and Mick" and no mention for Christine or John, except for the occasional "Christine is probably contracted to do this tour." It's important to remember there are, or were, 5 people in this band and a decision like this should reflect on all of them.

C'mon man
You don't live in a bubble. Its Mick's band. No one can get fired if Mick does not agree. Who in the band does not get along with Lindsey and refused to record a new album because he was there? Stevie. You know this but pretend somehow Christine and John are equal parts. They don't have a 40 year grievance with Lindsey like Stevie does. You are pretending or kidding yourself. What I blame Christine for is not standing up to the decision. Christine could have saved him. But that is NOT the same of those who have an agenda against Lindsey (whether you agree or disagree with that agenda). Its a fantasy to think the 4 members said YOU ARE FIRED LINDSEY. We don't want you to promote your solo album and we don't like the way you carry on with Stevie. Simply unbelievable.
Like the course of history, there are horrible leaders who do horrible things. Then there are the cowards who don't stand up and don't protest the leader doing the horrible things.

FuzzyPlum · #21 04-13-2018, 03:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bwboy

It probably was me, and while that may not apply to everyone, just look back at a number of these threads and you'll see "Stevie and Mick, Stevie and Mick" and no mention for Christine or John, except for the occasional "Christine is probably contracted to do this tour." It's important to remember there are, or were, 5 people in this band and a decision like this should reflect on all of them.

Absolutely. But surely its clear to see Mick and Stevie are the power of the band. Mick is/has been the de facto leader but Stevie has taken that mantle now. Chris and John are complicit but nothing more than enablers so its only right M&S are receiving the most vitriol.

MaryLiz2 · #22 04-13-2018, 04:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bwboy

It probably was me, and while that may not apply to everyone, just look back at a number of these threads and you'll see "Stevie and Mick, Stevie and Mick" and no mention for Christine or John, except for the occasional "Christine is probably contracted to do this tour." It's important to remember there are, or were, 5 people in this band and a decision like this should reflect on all of them.

Yup. And as far as Christine just going along with things...my memory can be foggy, but back when the rest of the band had their shorts in a knot over Stevie's Rolling Stone cover story Christine PARTICIPATED by being interviewed for the article. Christine does what she wants.

Agree with your prior reasoning on the difference between Lindsey and The Pretenders booking different shows. And not for nothing (and again I may be foggy on the specifics, so I beg forgiveness if I'm wrong), but didn't Stevie hold off on touring in support of 24 Karat Gold because of an FM tour? The album was released in 2014, but she didn't begin the 24 Karat Gold Tour until 2016 due to On With the Show. I'm not one in the "Stevie's fault! Stevie's fault!" camp with the actual verified evidence available... BUT I can also see her being petty enough to figure she had to wait to do her own tour, Lindsey can wait to do his. Pettiest band of all time, these Macs.

bwboy · #23 04-13-2018, 04:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Macfan4life

They don't have a 40 year grievance with Lindsey like Stevie does. You are pretending or kidding yourself. What I blame Christine for is not standing up to the decision. Christine could have saved him. But that is NOT the same of those who have an agenda against Lindsey (whether you agree or disagree with that agenda). Its a fantasy to think the 4 members said YOU ARE FIRED LINDSEY. We don't want you to promote your solo album and we don't like the way you carry on with Stevie. Simply unbelievable.
Like the course of history, there are horrible leaders who do horrible things. Then there are the cowards who don't stand up and don't protest the leader doing the horrible things.

I don't think this was a decision Stevie was waiting 40 years for. She was upset when Lindsey left in 1987. She happily reunited with him back in 1996. She recorded Say You Will and an EP with him. She toured with him without Christine 3 times. She invited him to perform at a benefit for the Heart Foundation and he accepted. He invited her to appear with him on his Sound Stage concert and she accepted. I don't believe she has an agenda against him. Nor do I believe Lindsey has an agenda against her. That doesn't mean the band didn't make a stupid, potentially legacy-damaging decision, but no, I don't believe this is a culmination of 40 years of grievances on anyone's part.

sue · #24 04-13-2018, 05:07 PM

What I don’t understand..
If this is about Lindsey wanting to promote his solo album with a solo tour, why couldn’t he just postpone?

Stevie had 24 karat gold come out but toured with Fmac (on with the show)
She had to postpone promoting 24 karat gold, till On with the show tour ended.

She toured with Fmac as Christine had returned, and 24 karat gold promo tour had to wait.

bwboy · #25 04-13-2018, 05:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MaryLiz2

Yup. And as far as Christine just going along with things...my memory can be foggy, but back when the rest of the band had their shorts in a knot over Stevie's Rolling Stone cover story Christine PARTICIPATED by being interviewed for the article. Christine does what she wants.

Agree with your prior reasoning on the difference between Lindsey and The Pretenders booking different shows. And not for nothing (and again I may be foggy on the specifics, so I beg forgiveness if I'm wrong), but didn't Stevie hold off on touring in support of 24 Karat Gold because of an FM tour? The album was released in 2014, but she didn't begin the 24 Karat Gold Tour until 2016 due to On With the Show. I'm not one in the "Stevie's fault! Stevie's fault!" camp with the actual verified evidence available... BUT I can also see her being petty enough to figure she had to wait to do her own tour, Lindsey can wait to do his. Pettiest band of all time, these Macs.

Yes, 24 Karat Gold was released right before she went on tour with FM. And she didn't sing one song from that album on that tour. Not that she should get a medal for that, but yes, she kept her commitment to the band and I don't recall her complaining about not being able to tour for 24 Karat Gold until 2 years later. But I agree with you, I could also see Stevie using that same standard with Lindsey. Right or wrong, at least no one can say she was asking for special treatment back then, and then refusing to give him the same treatment now.

MaryLiz2 · #26 04-13-2018, 05:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bwboy

Yes, 24 Karat Gold was released right before she went on tour with FM. And she didn't sing one song from that album on that tour. Not that she should get a medal for that, but yes, she kept her commitment to the band and I don't recall her complaining about not being able to tour for 24 Karat Gold until 2 years later. But I agree with you, I could also see Stevie using that same standard with Lindsey. Right or wrong, at least no one can say she was asking for special treatment back then, and then refusing to give him the same treatment now.

Oh, but someone will. We fans are as petty as the band.

Quite honestly, with my advancing age I'm just glad that I remembered the details of the 24KG and OWTS dates!

dreamsunwind · #27 04-13-2018, 05:57 PM

I 100% agree that this was a business/scheduling conflict that just went really downhill due to clashing egos and decades of drama and pettiness.
However anyone who thinks that Mick and Stevie don't call 90% of the shots here are deluded. Stevie is the big cash cow for the band. Almost all casual fans associate FM primarily with Stevie Nicks. Mick will ALWAYS bend over backwards to appease her and keep her touring with them because she brings in the big bucks. And as for Mick, the band is literally his name. Even if Stevie has the monetary power, it's HIS band.

It's not hard for me to believe that they led the vote against Lindsey and John voted with Mick because of their age old union. Chris probably IS in the middle on this. Besides, Elle's post seems to confirm almost exactly what happened.

button-lip · #28 04-13-2018, 06:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dreamsunwind

I 100% agree that this was a business/scheduling conflict that just went really downhill due to clashing egos and decades of drama and pettiness.
However anyone who thinks that Mick and Stevie don't call 90% of the shots here are deluded. Stevie is the big cash cow for the band. Almost all casual fans associate FM primarily with Stevie Nicks. Mick will ALWAYS bend over backwards to appease her and keep her touring with them because she brings in the big bucks. And as for Mick, the band is literally his name. Even if Stevie has the monetary power, it's HIS band.

It's not hard for me to believe that they led the vote against Lindsey and John voted with Mick because of their age old union. Chris probably IS in the middle on this. Besides, Elle's post seems to confirm almost exactly what happened.

For many, Stevie is so powerful she's the reason FM fills arenas, and she also can do it on her solo tours. But when it comes to calling the shots, she's not more important or powerful than the rest of her band members.

How voting went is clear for everyone who wants to see it. I'm dubious about Christine.

rhiannondontgo · #29 04-13-2018, 06:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FuzzyPlum

That would suggest after he was fired he went back to them and said 'Fine, I wont do the solo tour, I'll just do Fleetwood Mac shows'.
Surely if that's the case then they should have said 'Cool, lets go'.
Instead they refused.

Actually I think you’re onto something. I could definitely see this being the situation.
Lindsey signs on for an FM tour in the fall after releasing the planned solo record and promoting it on tour in Spring. Label pushes back the solo record which causes both of his planned tours to take place at the same time. He asks FM to either delay their tour or allow him to go out for solo shows concurrently. They say no. Some seriously fighting goes on. Maybe he says that’s the only way he can do it. Either he threatens to not do the tour unless they work with him here or they tell him he’s booted for being difficult in the first place. They then have their plans all screwed up and a contractually obligated tour fast approaching and are scrambling to figure out a solution or replacement. He realizes they’re going on tour with or without him, comes back and says “I give in, i’ll just do the FM tour only” but Stevie’s still pissed off and sick of it all so she says “nope, not letting him back”. And the rest of the band follows suit because they see her as a 5 foot tall sack of money.