What's good for Christine is bad for Lindsey?

[sodascouts]

Originally Posted by dissention

it all just showed a lack of effort on her part when it was presented next to the amazing material from Chris and Linds. The record company certainly knew it, as reflected in the singles that were chosen to be released.

I agree that Little Lies was the best thing on the album and definitely deserved to be the first single. However, the record company also thought it would be a great idea to release FIVE re-mixes of "Family Man." Their "instincts" are not always the best gauge of what would strike people's fancies. I know there are holdouts, but most people put Family Man on the "excruciating to listen to" list, right next to WISYA and WTTR...S.

[Mari]

Originally Posted by jbrownsjr

Well it's kind of hard to run a rock band without a guitar player. Keyboards are secondary in rock. Especially the way FMac and Christine used them.

doesn't that mean that Lindsey was a more important member of the band than Christine?

[CarneVaca]

Originally Posted by dissention

Like I said, instead of laying blame on Lindsey for doing the right and healthy thing, let's look at how the behaviors of the band led to it. It's easy to lay blame on the person who had the balls to quit, but it doesn't seem easy for you Stevie supporters to look at her and everyone elses part in it.

Well said. I think most of us, even those who blast Lindsey for it, would have probably reached the same conclusion he did. Clearly, he wasn't legally bound to do the tour, or Mick would have sued his pants off. How fair is it to knock him when clearly the rest of the band, except for maybe Christine, fostered this environment that was a living hell for him? Let's look at it this way, can someone give us a good reason for him to have stayed?

[CarneVaca]

Originally Posted by sodascouts

I know there are holdouts, but most people put Family Man on the "excruciating to listen to" list, right next to WISYA and WTTR...S.

If you ask me, all the remixes are pretty excruciating. But as I mentioned before, hearing Family Man on the radio was a bit of a shock for me. Tango is undeniably Lindsey's and Christine's masterpiece. Despite its 80s sheen, it is still a wonderful piece of work.

[dissention]

Originally Posted by CarneVaca

Jason, Dissention makes an excellent point. Little Lies and Big Love were big hits. Seven Wonders did OK. Also, at the time I remember hearing Everywhere, Family Man, Mystified and Isn't It Midnight on the radio. A lot. I remember being surprised at Family Man's airplay. Seven Wonders is a forgotten song for most poeple. But you can't say that about Little Lies and Big Love.

In my ever-so-humble opinion, Tango would have been much better if Welcome to the Room and When I See You again were dropped, and You and I Part I were added. Then there would be no sucky songs in it at all.

I agree. And what do you think of the Family Man video? I watched for the first time in a long time last night and laughed my ass off for an hour straight.

[sodascouts]

Originally Posted by dissention

I agree. And what do you think of the Family Man video? I watched for the first time in a long time last night and laughed my ass off for an hour straight.

I've never seen it. I assume Lindsey's not in it. What do they do the whole time?! Show Mick mouthing "I am what I am, am what I am, am what I am, am what I am" and making contorted faces?

[dissention]

Originally Posted by sodascouts

I agree that Little Lies was the best thing on the album and definitely deserved to be the first single. However, the record company also thought it would be a great idea to release FIVE re-mixes of "Family Man." Their "instincts" are not always the best gauge of what would strike people's fancies. I know there are holdouts, but most people put Family Man on the "excruciating to listen to" list, right next to WISYA and WTTR...S.

Apples and oranges. I don't remember ever hearing a Family Man remix on the radio. The song itself, yeah, but not the remixes. Those were just on the vinyls. And Family Man got great reception if it was played on the radio. Can you imagine the thoughts of radio stations upon hearing the new FM single WISYA or WTTR...S? I shudder to think.

[dissention]

Originally Posted by sodascouts

I've never seen it. I assume Lindsey's not in it. What do they do the whole time?! Show Mick mouthing "I am what I am, am what I am, am what I am, am what I am" and making contorted faces?

They show many clips from the Seven Wonders video of Lindsey playing guitar and Stevie twirling with her boobs falling out, then they intersperse old, old, old B&W footage of fat women eating dinner with their family and scenes from what could've been the sequel to Grapes of Wrath. Families all lined up outside their beaten-down houses, kids running through the dirt, etc.

It's all pretty horrendous.

[Mari]

I think I understand now why it's kind of quiet on the Lindsey-ledge
The Lindsey-discussion takes place elsewhere..

[strandinthewind]

Sighs!

I think there are three sep. issues here. Let me try to clarify.

1. Stevie made time in her life to be a part of TITN when she did not have to do this from a career point of view and it was hard on her. She was obligated to tour for RAL and went into rehab. Immediately after getting out of rehab she went back to FM to participate in the process that caused her to go into rehab - also rehab is a slightly humiliating process and I am sure that effected her when working with her former lover - it would have me That she went at all I think that is a plus for her. I think it shows loyalty to the band that made her of the most famous women in the world and to the engineer of her FM body of work. Could she have been there more? I do not know. Do I fault her for it - no. Again, LB could have released his solo record and then in 1988, they could have started to record the next FM record as a band. They all chose not to do this and instead do it the way they did it.

I do not get why people cannot give her this credit. All they can say is "she was there for ten days" which is not true considering they communicated while she was on the road. But, people will always fault her for this and wrongly so IMO and for the reasons stated.

2. TITN was LB's concept and he is responsible for it along with the significant contributions of CM and the rest of FM. Stevie is not responsible for the making of TITN in any significant way. I think everyone agrees with that. Yet, it is hard to ignore that FM waited for SN to complete the record. Again, I think that means they found merit in her and her work/contributions, despite what some outside of FM may think of it. Plus, FM is not stupid, they knew the record would sell better if the highly popular SN was associated with it. Yes, her single was not as popular, but she was. Again, I do not think that is fair, because LB and CM are both very talented people on their own and certainly do not need Stevie as a validation of this extreme talent. But, Stevie's face had the ability to sell then and still does to a lesser degree. So, I think that is a big part of the reason why FM and/or their label insisted on waiting for her. In the end, I am glad they did. I love Seven Wonders and think the three voices sound great on it as well as LL and Everywhere. I think these three songs would be less without the three voices.

3. LB made the decision to record the FM record and then opted out of the tour (contract or not, the tour was booked and LB certainly knew they would tour to support the record). I get that it was a survival move on his part. I just think it was crappy of him to get involved in the first place and then back out when it got tough on him. I analogized this to Stevie and CM who probably did not want to be there just as much as LB. But, they stuck it out for the tour. Also, Stevie never had to be there in the first place. She could have kept on with her solo career, which was at that time still very successful. Interestingly, everyone blames all of the drama on everyone but LB. I think LB, SN, CM, and the rest of FM all had equal parts in that. Yet, no one assigns any blame to LB. Instead, they point at issue no. 1 and demonize Stevie for not being there for the recording of the record The two are sep. in my book.

But, the agrument rages on . . .

[dissention]

Originally Posted by CarneVaca

If you ask me, all the remixes are pretty excruciating. But as I mentioned before, hearing Family Man on the radio was a bit of a shock for me. Tango is undeniably Lindsey's and Christine's masterpiece. Despite its 80s sheen, it is still a wonderful piece of work.

I actually quite like the Little Lies remixes.

[jbrownsjr]

Originally Posted by Mari

doesn't that mean that Lindsey was a more important member of the band than Christine?

Yes, I would say so. But not important enough to stop the band.
And they do have two back-up keyboardists filling in for Christine.

[dissention]

Originally Posted by CarneVaca

Well said. I think most of us, even those who blast Lindsey for it, would have probably reached the same conclusion he did. Clearly, he wasn't legally bound to do the tour, or Mick would have sued his pants off. How fair is it to knock him when clearly the rest of the band, except for maybe Christine, fostered this environment that was a living hell for him? Let's look at it this way, can someone give us a good reason for him to have stayed?

Let's just say, Carne, that if it was Stevie who had left the band, we wouldn't be having these discussions. The Stevie fans who so ferociously support her for everything would be arguing what we're currently arguing about Lindsey.

[strandinthewind]

Originally Posted by CarneVaca

Well said. I think most of us, even those who blast Lindsey for it, would have probably reached the same conclusion he did. Clearly, he wasn't legally bound to do the tour, or Mick would have sued his pants off. How fair is it to knock him when clearly the rest of the band, except for maybe Christine, fostered this environment that was a living hell for him? Let's look at it this way, can someone give us a good reason for him to have stayed?

I have often wondered if he was legally bound. I mean it if he had been, it would have done no good to sue him for specific performance and made him play at shows. That would have never worked. Also, FM could have sued him for damages from his breach of contract. But, he made the videos (assuming they were not made before his exit) and the concert essentially sold out without him. So, there would be no damages in contract from his breach. Plus, without a copy of the contact he had with FM, we have no way of knowing whether he could exit at anytime by paying a fee to buy out the contract. It is possible he did this and no one knows about it.

And - my good reason for LB staying would be to live up to his end of the deal. But and again, if he was hell bent of going, then he should have and did go. I just think it was not very nice of him to do that.

[strandinthewind]

Originally Posted by dissention

Let's just say, Carne, that if it was Stevie who had left the band, we wouldn't be having these discussions. The Stevie fans who so ferociously support her for everything would be arguing what we're currently arguing about Lindsey.

I was just going to say, if Stevie had left the band, it would have been "Stevie is so selfish" "Stevie never cared that LB made her" etc.