400+ Bootlegs Download Them Here

[saintbernard]

Originally Posted by secret love

Where do you get these things?
You know that this is music piracy and it is illegal, right?

Oh I know everyone does it, but:

Unless you are a band member, or acting on the advice of a band member, you are not permitted to distribute free copies of their work. It breaches copyright and intellectual property laws as all 5 band players/singers are still alive.
Stop what you are doing please, Dave Mason. It is selfish. Your band Traffic Jam is great, mate. Give Fleetwood Mac a chance. Just because you missed out with them in the 1990s, you don't have to do this. Stop releasing all these damaging bootleg leaks and stealing the excitement away from fans for the new album. Come on, mate. Dave, geezus.

Let me apologize beforehand for being long-winded here, but...

Back in the day when I was very active in trading and in working on my web site I used to keep what I called my "Bootleg FAQ". I kept this on my trade page and several versions of it can still be found on the Internet Archive of the few pages of my trade page that site catalogs. It started because I, and a lot of other traders were often asked the same questions by new traders and some of the same questions kept popping up on online fan forums. Being someone who loves making lists, I took these questions that were frequently asked and turned them into an online resource to help new traders. In later updates of the FAQ, this was one of the very issues I addressed. Whether trading and having bootlegs is ethical and should be done has been a topic of debate amongst fans for a very long time now and I doubt it will never be a non-issue.

One thing I can guarantee you is that none of the band members want their officially released music being traded or downloaded off the internet. That is their work and intellectual property and it should be respected and supported. There's a very good reason why forums like this one have a strict "no released material" policy. Not only legal reasons but for the respect of the artists.

There are very few "on the record" statements by band members regarding bootlegs and the sharing of them. Reading a statement somewhere from someone who talked to someone, who talked to someone, who talked to someone who talked to one of the band members about bootlegs isn't what I consider to be a concrete source of information. There are a lot of people who would like to think they are "insiders" and know exactly how the band members feel or think about something and feel they can, and should, speak for them. Until you hear it from the horses mouth, it is not definitive.

Mick and Stevie are really the only two that have said more than a few passing words on this issue.

In a March 2001 chat with the Online Sun Mick Fleetwood was asked by a fan if any of the rare demos and outtakes and performances would be released officially. The fan even mentioned a few titles in his question. Mick replied: "It's great to hear that you enjoy all these hard-to-find songs. The reality is that these are all usually recorded by people we've never met. So we don't have the masters. Maybe one day I'll have to put out adverts on the Internet to find them all." My experience is that I have never heard Mick Fleetwood speak hatefully about traders and tapers. Never.

When filming her 1998 VH1 Storytellers appearance Stevie was asked by a member of the audience about some of her well-circulated demos and outtakes. Again, the fan even mentioned some songs by name. Stevie replied: "...Those songs that you are talking about, Forest of the Black Roses, those songs, um, interesting story. All those songs are bootlegged. I've never recorded any of those songs. And I have them on cassettes in my house. Somehow, somebody came in, took the cassettes that all of those songs were on, and copied them, then brought 'em back and put 'em back so I never knew they were gone. So, I knew that you would do that. So, I'm just saying that those songs were, I didn't do it. Um, those songs were like, you know, are, were, those songs were songs that I would still record even though they were, even though they were on those records and...How wild is that? I never recorded them and everybody knows enough about them to actually ask me about them by title." I know all that sounds like a lot of gibberish (that's just the way our Stevie talks) but if you read it carefully, there is a definitive message in there. Even back then she said she would still record those songs and guess what? She has done that very thing. Just because these songs are out there doesn't mean they are dead in the water.

I remember reading comments regarding the master reels that are in circulation and fast became the favorites of collectors. The master reels were originally housed in a storage facility by Modern Records. When Modern Records went out of business the fees were not paid on the storage unit so the contents of it were sold to regain the lost fees. It has been said many times in many places that the reels were offered to Stevie Nicks and her management but they declined them stating they had their own copies and didn't need those reels. If Stevie was so adamant about keeping this music out of the hands of fans, she would have kept up with her reels much more closely. The fees on the storage unit would never have gone unpaid or those reels would have gone directly from that storage unit to some other secret location where she could have kept them safe. If this old story is true, she and her camp let them out by not keeping up with them and then refusing to take action on them when made aware of them.

A long time ago several eBay auctions for Lindsey Buckingham demos and outtakes from his then-unreleased Gift of Screws album popped up. Fans, some on this very board, stated they contacted his management about those auctions and contacted eBay regarding them. The auctions were allowed to continue with no apparent action taken by East End Management or Lindsey Buckingham.

Regardless of what the band members have or haven't said, I think it is crystal clear there isn't a single member of Fleetwood Mac--past or present--that does not know anything about the existence of bootlegs and traders. All band members know that shows, demos and outtakes are circulating amongst fans. Some fans feel their lack of action when notified about their sales or distribution speaks volumes. To me, the very fact that Stevie "All these old songs were stolen from me" Nicks has gone to YouTube for not one but two records for songs says quite a bit to me. It wouldn't surprise me in the least if more songs from the "YouTube Vault" aren't released in the future.

There is a huge difference in being a trader and a bootlegger. Traders are people who gain nothing from circulating these recordings other than the satisfaction of watching their personal collection grow, enjoying the songs and being able to share them and enjoy them with other fans. Bootleggers are a very different animal. They DO profit financially and rarely get enjoyment and satisfaction from having a large number of titles in their collection. Bootleggers are in it for the money and nothing else. They are businessmen and women, plain and simple. That is why it is not uncommon to see genuine fans and traders sharing what is called a "liberated bootleg". This means they are basically trying to take the legs out from under a bootlegger by freely sharing something they sell to diminish their profits. To me, anyone who profits is a bootlegger. Anyone who enjoys, savors and cherishes, is first a fan and secondly a trader. Sets and shows are commonly referred to as "boots" because that is what they are: they are bootlegs. A bootleg is anything that was not commercially released by a band or artist that is circulating amongst fans.

If Fleetwood Mac and its members wanted, they could deal with traders the same way Prince has. They could actually sue fans for sharing shows and unreleased songs and starting fan sites. They could do the way the estate of Frank Sinatra has. They could have their lawyers sent cease and desist letters to sites like dimeadozen and The Trader's Den ordering them to remove all of their material from the web site and never allow it on again or risk legal action. The members of Fleetwood Mac do not need anyone on the outside to defend them. That's what they have lawyers, labels and management companies for. Whether they use those resources or not, that's up to them and I'm sure they have their reasons as to why or why not.

This is just my personal opinion, but I think Fleetwood Mac and it's members (yes, even Stevie) like it. They like that these bootlegs keep them alive to the fans during long periods when nothing new is released and there are no tours scheduled. I think it makes them feel good to know that the fans will take the time to actually hunt these things down, download or trade for them and love them so much they will ask them about them in person. Not only is that a boost to the ego but that lets them know just how much their fans appreciate their work and how much this unreleased material matters to their fans. They understand how this unreleased material has brought them new fans and helped bring back old fans that have drifted on to other things back into the fold (I can speak to that personally). I will continue to believe that until every single member of that band sits down with an interviewer and says point blank "this behavior makes me mad and the fans need to stop it because this is MY work and you shouldn't have it". I really can't see that happening any time soon, though.

[estranged4life]

Originally Posted by saintbernard

There is a huge difference in being a trader and a bootlegger. Traders are people who gain nothing from circulating these recordings other than the satisfaction of watching their personal collection grow, enjoying the songs and being able to share them and enjoy them with other fans. Bootleggers are a very different animal. They DO profit financially and rarely get enjoyment and satisfaction from having a large number of titles in their collection. Bootleggers are in it for the money and nothing else. They are businessmen and women, plain and simple. That is why it is not uncommon to see genuine fans and traders sharing what is called a "liberated bootleg". This means they are basically trying to take the legs out from under a bootlegger by freely sharing something they sell to diminish their profits. To me, anyone who profits is a bootlegger. Anyone who enjoys, savors and cherishes, is first a fan and secondly a trader. Sets and shows are commonly referred to as "boots" because that is what they are: they are bootlegs. A bootleg is anything that was not commercially released by a band or artist that is circulating amongst fans.

to your statement, The whole "bootlegger vs. trader" thing was one of the reasons I no longer bother with ROIO's ("Recording of Indeterminate Origin") since some people cannot see the difference between the two...I busted my ass (I either do something at 1000% or I wont bother, I cannot do ANYTHING "half-assed") in the past to FREELY share recordings, even to the point of transferring audio by tapers such as Torri from hard disc to dimeadozen to share freely...but STILL some think I wanted $$$ in exchange for the recordings I own, those IDIOTS have this BRIAN confused with another BRIAN of the FM/SN/LB trading circles, so I said to hell with it, I bowed out....I don't have the time for the b.s. anymore, but there are MANY traders who know me, and knew that I NEVER would profit off these ROIO's...

Cheers...

[elle]

Originally Posted by saintbernard

A long time ago several eBay auctions for Lindsey Buckingham demos and outtakes from his then-unreleased Gift of Screws album popped up. Fans, some on this very board, stated they contacted his management about those auctions and contacted eBay regarding them. The auctions were allowed to continue with no apparent action taken by East End Management or Lindsey Buckingham.

i have no idea what he thinks about practically finished GOS1 bootlegs but i asked Lindsey at the M&Gs he had 2 years ago about some of his demos and told him how i would love to see at least some specific ones released (Deep Dense). he asked me which version i liked better, the fast or the slow one... i have heard several versions but they were all about the same speed..... anyway, he was not at all surprised that i would know these songs nor angry that i would talk to him about it.

many fans record songs during live shows. i told LB about live WATL being already up on youtube 30 mins after he performed it. a friend of mine asked him whether he's ok with us putting these recordings up. he said something like "just don't make me look bad". he sees when fans are recording performances and is well aware these will end up on youtube.

[michelej1]

Originally Posted by elle

i have no idea what he thinks about practically finished GOS1 bootlegs but i asked Lindsey at the M&Gs he had 2 years ago about some of his demos and told him how i would love to see at least some specific ones released (Deep Dense). he asked me which version i liked better, the fast or the slow one... i have heard several versions but they were all about the same speed.....

You should have just answered, "the fast one."

Michele

[Macfanforever]

What I understand is boots are people producing copies and selling them and making big profits off everybody.


Bootlegger is a term that goes back to the 1920's moonshine days.
Remember Grannies moonshine still on the Beverly Hillbillies .LOL.............


Traders just want to trade to build up their collection at cost of shipping and cost of recording media back in the old days.Now its for free online as we see now.

Its great to see the sharing going on here as long there is no cash changing hands.

[PenguinHead]

Originally Posted by saintbernard

Let me apologize beforehand for being long-winded here, but...

Thank you for making things clear for the confused ones. I was going to chime in, but you took it to another level. I appreciate the wind.

[PenguinHead]

Live at Madison Square Garden, New York City, New York; June 29, 1977

Intro - Say You Love Me - Monday Morning - Oh Well - Rhiannon - Oh Daddy - Never Going Back Again - Landslide - Over My Head - Gold Dust Woman - You Make Loving Fun - I'm So Afraid - Dreams - Go Your Own Way - World Turning - Blue Letter - The Chain - Second Hand News - Songbird

How dare they subject their audience to nine new songs! No one wants to hear new music! Audience members paid good money and expected all the old classic songs they are familiar with. No Green Manalishi, no Man of the World, etc...what a rip off. That must have been a very disappointing show for their "fans."

And one more thing about bootlegs: the digital age and internet has pretty much gutted any profit margins for bootleggers. Most material that was packaged and sold for personal profit is now available for free (as it should be). As demonstrated on this fan site, fans have access and and gladly share live shows, outtakes and unreleased material.

[Phil Lee]

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