Future Games and Bare Trees

[alexsdad]

Hi everybody,
I'm a new guy here who has been looking to collect everything from the Danny Kirwin FG and BT era. There was no better time for Fleetwood Mac!
Can anyone give me an idea of why these albums were so good but ignored?

Alexs Dad

[bretonbanquet]

Hello

1971-72 is a criminally overlooked era in my opinion, both the albums you mention are way underrated. Why are they ignored? Well, you could have a very long conversation about that... the band were still based in the UK and were only just beginning to build a fanbase in the States. Certainly in the UK I think a lot of people thought the band finished when Peter Green left, and the few people who bought 'Kiln House' were probably a bit surprised at the changes in direction that album took after 'Then Play On'. The single 'Dragonfly' absolutely bombed as well (April 1971).

FG had no singles in the UK, which meant no airplay here, although 'Sands of Time' was a single in the States. It was a real transitional period for the band commercially and musically, and although the music was mostly brilliant, it got overlooked... maybe someone else here has a better idea about it

Also, I'll point it out before someone else inevitably does it's Kirwan not Kirwin - a few people have a real pet hate about that Another thing - the Chain boxed set has an outtake from this era - 'Trinity' was a Danny Kirwan song from '72 which is well worth checking out

[wondergirl9847]

Welcome to the board, Alexs dad!

I am not sure why it was overlooked, but perhaps Breton is right, people were caught off guard with Peter leaving and the new direction.

I would also think that since Danny Kirwan was kind of the "leader" (although, Bob Welch was the spokesman in concerts, I would guess) because he'd been there the longest, obviously excluding Mick and John from this, since they don't sing. Anyways, anyone who saw or heard from them were probably left feeling cold from Danny since he didn't seem like a warm, inviting personality. Not sure how people connected with Bob either.

Just another theory.

Danny is my 3rd fave member of FM...he was just awesome on that guitar and I love his music. I just wish that his life had taken a more positive turn.

[GateandGarden]

Originally Posted by wondergirl9847

Danny is my 3rd fave member of FM...he was just awesome on that guitar and I love his music. I just wish that his life had taken a more positive turn.

If he's your third...then Lindsey's your first...and who's the second? Is it Billy? Just wondering.

I also wish his life had taken a more positive turn.

[wondergirl9847]

It's Bob Brunning. I thought that was obvious.



Miss Stevie is my 2nd fave.

[bretonbanquet]

Poor Bob Brunning - I guess he's nobody's favourite and a lot of people's 16th favourite

It would be great to know how the FG / BT line-up came across on stage, because with show-stealer Jeremy Spencer gone, there was a bit of a vacuum there. Maybe you're right, wondergirl - if Danny came across on stage in the same way as he did in his relationships with the rest of the band at that time, maybe audiences were turned off. We need someone who saw them live back then to tell us

Danny is my favourite Macster (closely followed by Peter) but he must have been a nightmare to be with sometimes

[chiliD]

It would be great to know how the FG / BT line-up came across on stage...

Well, you can HEAR how they did; there are two bootlegs from the FG/BT era in circulation...one from Seattle a couple of weeks before the release of Bare Trees...the better sound quality of the two...it is from a radio broadcast, so the sound quality is pretty good.

Set list:
Tell Me All The Things You Do
Future Games
Get Like You Used To Be
Child Of Mine
Spare Me A Little
Homeward Bound
Black Magic Woman (with lead vocals by Danny! )
Oh Well (Bob Welch lead vocal)

...and one a little bit earlier, I believe...recorded in Sindelfingen, Germany.
Set List:
Tell Me All The Things You Do
Future Games
Morning Rain
Woman Of A Thousand Years
Black Magic Woman (again, lead vocals by Danny! )
Get Like You Used To Be
Homeward Bound
Trinity
Child Of Mine
Oh Well
Whole Lotta Shakin' Goin' On (the Jerry Lee Lewis tune)

[GateandGarden]

Originally Posted by wondergirl9847

Miss Stevie is my 2nd fave.

Oh, okay! Cool!

[SteveMacD]

It's my favorite incarnation, truth be told. Probably because they took a lot more musical risks than other incarnations. The two above mentioned live shows were pretty killer, though I like the Seattle show best. They had been together long enough to where they were playing very well as a band.

Now, why does this era get overlooked? That incarnation was only together for 18 or so months, which doesn't help in terms of building a legacy. In fact, from its inception until Jan. 1975, Fleetwood Mac never had the same incarnation for more than 18 months. Then there's the fact that the whole Bob Welch era is bookended by two very successful bands. Peter Green's Fleetwood Mac was a supergroup of sorts when it debuted and the "Rumours" band was one of the most legendary bands in rock history. So with two well known and deeply admired incarnations, it's only natural that the stuff that doesn't fall into either category would be received with luke-warm reception by some.

Which is a shame, because FG/BT are perhaps the two most important albums in the history of Fleetwood Mac. While "Then Play On" was really the first album that wasn't a traditional blues album, there were enough blues elements that kept the faithful happy. FG is the first album the band did that had completely nothing to do with the blues or '50s rock/country. It was a '70s rock album, complete with extended jamming. There was no "shtick." The songwriting on BT was more focused, was much friendlier to pop radio, and was really the biggest step the band took to becoming what it eventually became. You could really take away the next three albums, and the transition from BT to the white FM album would have made complete sense (although those albums, too, had classics I wouldn't want to be without).

[alexsdad]

Hi Everybody,
Thanks for all your replies! It sounds like Danny was his own worst enemy....

I bought Future Games back in high school in 1972. I then bought the earlier albums and hated them except for Kiln House. I now have every album plus a handful of cool boots.
Danny's solo albums are OK, but his Ram Jam City CD is wonderful!
The Bob Welch era was interesting, but kinda boring.

My first FM concert was the 1975 tour in Passaic NJ when Lindsey and Stevie joined. The crowd booed the band and more than half of them left. I stayed....cause I was able to move to the front row....and MAN these new guys were GOOD!!!!
I think Lindsey is one of the most amazing guitarist ever. !

The two boots chiliD and SteveMacD mention are my dream come true!!!!! Does any one have a decent copy I could trade for????

Alexs dad

[PenguinHead]

Keep in mind -- despite their lack of chart success, they consistently achieved approximately quarter million sales per album (according to various sources). And they were always able to make a reasonable living by touring.
In fact, during that time, when UK audiences were ignoring them, they had a small but strong following in US audiences, with a subculture that included a college crowd.

[Blue Horizon]

I saw the band live in London (Kensington Town Hall)
just after FG had been released and I remember thinking after the gig that they lacked the leadership that Peter had given them. Danny,Chris, and Bob, all took turns to announce the songs but they all seemed reluctant to take on the role of leader. I do however recall seeing Mick at the entrance to the hall talking to a guy (not Clifford Davis) about % of the gate money taken, so even back then he was the one chasing the Dollars/Pounds!
The concert was very good, and I thought Bob's guitar playing was excellent and a fine contrast to Danny's more blues orientated playing. It was still early days for this lineup regarding the number of live gigs they had played so they were still finding their feet, so to speak.
This was the last gig I saw with Danny in the band, the next being with Dave Walker and Bob Weston so I remember this concert with great affection.
Just wish the guy was still playing, as he was amazing and had a very unique style unlike so many of todays guitar players.

Blue Horizon.

[P90pup]

I saw Danny and Peter....does that count? They were both concerned
about perfection and counterpoint! Pete was a leader...Danny didn't
want to be! He was thrust into the role when Pete left. He was after all the next in line great guitarist. He and Jeremy did a magnificent job with Kiln House....then Jeremy went the way of Pete! Bare Trees was was the last
classic FWM Lp....untill the white album.
Danny didn't want to be the leader...he just wanted to be a guitar player.
Chili...I'm still awaiting
Tom

[aleuzzi]

Originally Posted by Blue Horizon

I saw the band live in London (Kensington Town Hall)
just after FG had been released and I remember thinking after the gig that they lacked the leadership that Peter had given them. Danny,Chris, and Bob, all took turns to announce the songs but they all seemed reluctant to take on the role of leader. I do however recall seeing Mick at the entrance to the hall talking to a guy (not Clifford Davis) about % of the gate money taken, so even back then he was the one chasing the Dollars/Pounds!
The concert was very good, and I thought Bob's guitar playing was excellent and a fine contrast to Danny's more blues orientated playing. It was still early days for this lineup regarding the number of live gigs they had played so they were still finding their feet, so to speak.
This was the last gig I saw with Danny in the band, the next being with Dave Walker and Bob Weston so I remember this concert with great affection.
Just wish the guy was still playing, as he was amazing and had a very unique style unlike so many of todays guitar players.

Blue Horizon.

Can you tell us about your memories of the Penguin-era show you saw?

[SteveMacD]

LOL! This thread is ten years old.