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  #76  
Old 05-25-2018, 04:55 PM
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Originally Posted by bwboy View Post
Does it really matter? I mean truly? Nothing anyone else says will make you change your mind about the situation, so why bother trying. Besides, you have every right to feel the way you do about Lindsey's firing. But let's really, truly be honest for a second- the key thing here that made some people angry is that FM fired Lindsey. Regardless of the reason, that is what is upsetting people. Let's say an inside source said Lindsey behaved inappropriately at a band meeting, and that was why he was fired. Would that make a difference to you? Probably not, and that's your right. I imagine some of the responses would be "but Lindsey sacrificed the last 40 years of his life to make FM a success, so they should deal with it instead of stabbing him in the back." And that's their right to feel that way. I disagree, and there's probably nothing anyone could say that would change my mind, either. What's clear to you is not clear to me, and what's clear to me is not clear to you
It's like trying to make Stevie's fans understand that she was the sole reason Lindsey was fired because she wanted to punish him. I don't need to imagine the responses, because I have already read them: "but she sells arenas, she's the hit maker!"
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- Lindsey Buckingham, May 11, 2018.
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  #77  
Old 05-25-2018, 05:11 PM
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Originally Posted by dreamsunwind View Post
Well she's Lindsey's wife so she obviously knows all about everything that happened and considering that prior to this, she was always hugely supportive of FM and exclusively said positive, loving things about the band on her social media, I'd say the fact that she's now 'turned against them' is pretty damn telling lol. Even her daughter went from calling Stevie "her queen" to holding a seemingly negative image of her in a matter of a few months.
Maybe Kristen and Leelee and his entire family are liking those posts because Stevie and the rest of them DID do a bad thing and they deserve to be called out for it?
This! The whole Buckingham family has always been very supportive of FM. They're all now so angry, especially with Stevie, that I can't even imagine what's the whole story here. They all love Lindsey and they clearly feel the band's betrayal to him as if it was directed to them.
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- Lindsey Buckingham, May 11, 2018.
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  #78  
Old 05-25-2018, 05:16 PM
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Originally Posted by lilyfee View Post
I don’t think anyone in the band has talked to him since his tell all book.
I've heard this as well, although I don't understand why. My brain found Ken's book to be highly technical, and a bit boring, imho.

Granted, I read it once upon release, but I don't recall any juicy stories that weren't already floating around well before then...?
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  #79  
Old 05-25-2018, 06:07 PM
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Originally Posted by button-lip View Post
It's like trying to make Stevie's fans understand that she was the sole reason Lindsey was fired because she wanted to punish him. I don't need to imagine the responses, because I have already read them: "but she sells arenas, she's the hit maker!"
You are right about that- I don't believe Stevie wanted Lindsey fired just to punish him. I just don't. I don't think she was jealous Christine and Lindsey made an album without her because she declined to work on it with them. And I don't believe she was jealous they toured together without her around the same time she was touring.

Here's what I do think: she never wanted to record with Lindsey again, and sometime later she gave the ultimatum it was either her or him. The band chose Stevie, and I understand why- Mick and John get their income from touring. When Buck/Vie toured, they didn't use Mick and John. And their tour was not a big moneymaker, anyway. So Mick and John have a choice: kick Stevie out and record an album as FM and go on a small venue tour, or kick Lindsey out and possibly record an album as FM with Neil and Mike and go on a large venue tour.

Mick and John have the right to earn an income. They may have a lot of money, but they can't depend on savings- they have to continue making money just like most people. That's kind of why the Rolling Stones and U2 and other bands continue touring- those yachts and private colleges and mansions cost a lot of money. That's why Mick and John don't just retire to leave their legacy intact. Even Stevie, Lindsey, and Christine tour for the money, and being the songwriters, they make a lot more money than Mick and John, but even they use these tours to pay for their mansions, families, etc.

Is it unfortunate they couldn't make it work? Yes. But I understand why the decision was made. It was purely smart business and economical. I have no right to tell Mick and John they should retire because they fired Lindsey. You and anyone else have every right to protest, express your frustration, etc. Don't go to future FM concerts, don't buy any more FM albums, whether EPs or cds or greatest hits or live compilations. Likewise, I and anyone else have every right to give this new line up a chance. To see them live in concert. I don't feel anger at the band, and I still like Rumours and the white album and Tusk. And I know Lindsey will release cds and tour, and I'll buy his CD and possibly see him in concert too, especially since he's no longer in FM.

Button-lip, I know you said not to say "but she sells arenas," but I really do think that's what it came down to. And I know you and I disagree on this, but I really wanted to write sincerely to you about why I am able to accept this new line up of FM. If Stevie had been fired, I would have been fine with that. And if someone had replaced her, depending on who it was, I would have been just as intrigued, especially if Ann Wilson or Pat Benatar or even Belinda Carlisle had replaced her. I mean, can you imagine?!? I would totally have been there! Actually, FM hiring Neil Finn was smart on a couple of levels, the main one being he's pretty non-threatening. What I mean by that, some people may love him, many have at least heard of him or know his song Don't Dream It's Over, but few hate the guy! He's not polarizing like some other singers might have been.

Button-lip, I would love for your thoughts on some of what I said. Do you think my theory about why FM kept Stevie over Lindsey could be true? What are your thoughts about a FM touring without Stevie, and should they have tried to replace her if they had fired her?
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  #80  
Old 05-25-2018, 06:19 PM
Storms123 Storms123 is offline
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Originally Posted by bwboy View Post
You are right about that- I don't believe Stevie wanted Lindsey fired just to punish him. I just don't. I don't think she was jealous Christine and Lindsey made an album without her because she declined to work on it with them. And I don't believe she was jealous they toured together without her around the same time she was touring.

Here's what I do think: she never wanted to record with Lindsey again, and sometime later she gave the ultimatum it was either her or him. The band chose Stevie, and I understand why- Mick and John get their income from touring. When Buck/Vie toured, they didn't use Mick and John. And their tour was not a big moneymaker, anyway. So Mick and John have a choice: kick Stevie out and record an album as FM and go on a small venue tour, or kick Lindsey out and possibly record an album as FM with Neil and Mike and go on a large venue tour.

Mick and John have the right to earn an income. They may have a lot of money, but they can't depend on savings- they have to continue making money just like most people. That's kind of why the Rolling Stones and U2 and other bands continue touring- those yachts and private colleges and mansions cost a lot of money. That's why Mick and John don't just retire to leave their legacy intact. Even Stevie, Lindsey, and Christine tour for the money, and being the songwriters, they make a lot more money than Mick and John, but even they use these tours to pay for their mansions, families, etc.

Is it unfortunate they couldn't make it work? Yes. But I understand why the decision was made. It was purely smart business and economical. I have no right to tell Mick and John they should retire because they fired Lindsey. You and anyone else have every right to protest, express your frustration, etc. Don't go to future FM concerts, don't buy any more FM albums, whether EPs or cds or greatest hits or live compilations. Likewise, I and anyone else have every right to give this new line up a chance. To see them live in concert. I don't feel anger at the band, and I still like Rumours and the white album and Tusk. And I know Lindsey will release cds and tour, and I'll buy his CD and possibly see him in concert too, especially since he's no longer in FM.

Button-lip, I know you said not to say "but she sells arenas," but I really do think that's what it came down to. And I know you and I disagree on this, but I really wanted to write sincerely to you about why I am able to accept this new line up of FM. If Stevie had been fired, I would have been fine with that. And if someone had replaced her, depending on who it was, I would have been just as intrigued, especially if Ann Wilson or Pat Benatar or even Belinda Carlisle had replaced her. I mean, can you imagine?!? I would totally have been there! Actually, FM hiring Neil Finn was smart on a couple of levels, the main one being he's pretty non-threatening. What I mean by that, some people may love him, many have at least heard of him or know his song Don't Dream It's Over, but few hate the guy! He's not polarizing like some other singers might have been.

Button-lip, I would love for your thoughts on some of what I said. Do you think my theory about why FM kept Stevie over Lindsey could be true? What are your thoughts about a FM touring without Stevie, and should they have tried to replace her if they had fired her?
There’s likely a lot of truth in what you say. I, for one, would have a hell of a lot more respect for the band, if they said it. Instead, if there’s any element of truth to the above, they are lying, likely to protect her, her image and how she would be perceived if they just said “she can’t work with him anymore”.
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  #81  
Old 05-25-2018, 06:54 PM
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I think we're on the same page here - this was purely a financial decision as far as Mick was concerned. That being said, I'm not interested in a new Stevie-centric Mac. That's what her solo tours are for.

With all sincerity, I'll say "break a leg" as this Post-Rumours band hits the road.
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FYI: The Rumours lineup = Mick Fleetwood, John McVie, Christine McVie, Lindsey Buckingham & Stevie Nicks.

The lineup featuring Mike Campbell & Neil Finn is a Post-Rumours lineup of the band.


After 14 yrs visiting a site I once enjoyed which covered a band I once loved following, I now ‘Say Goodbye’ to both
No thanks to the faction within FM which destroyed its legacy & heavy-handed mod michelej1


This site operates at the whim of the admin&mods–a whim I'll no longer be associated with
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  #82  
Old 05-25-2018, 07:06 PM
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Originally Posted by bwboy View Post
You are right about that- I don't believe Stevie wanted Lindsey fired just to punish him. I just don't. I don't think she was jealous Christine and Lindsey made an album without her because she declined to work on it with them. And I don't believe she was jealous they toured together without her around the same time she was touring.

Here's what I do think: she never wanted to record with Lindsey again, and sometime later she gave the ultimatum it was either her or him. The band chose Stevie, and I understand why- Mick and John get their income from touring. When Buck/Vie toured, they didn't use Mick and John. And their tour was not a big moneymaker, anyway. So Mick and John have a choice: kick Stevie out and record an album as FM and go on a small venue tour, or kick Lindsey out and possibly record an album as FM with Neil and Mike and go on a large venue tour.

Mick and John have the right to earn an income. They may have a lot of money, but they can't depend on savings- they have to continue making money just like most people. That's kind of why the Rolling Stones and U2 and other bands continue touring- those yachts and private colleges and mansions cost a lot of money. That's why Mick and John don't just retire to leave their legacy intact. Even Stevie, Lindsey, and Christine tour for the money, and being the songwriters, they make a lot more money than Mick and John, but even they use these tours to pay for their mansions, families, etc.

Is it unfortunate they couldn't make it work? Yes. But I understand why the decision was made. It was purely smart business and economical. I have no right to tell Mick and John they should retire because they fired Lindsey. You and anyone else have every right to protest, express your frustration, etc. Don't go to future FM concerts, don't buy any more FM albums, whether EPs or cds or greatest hits or live compilations. Likewise, I and anyone else have every right to give this new line up a chance. To see them live in concert. I don't feel anger at the band, and I still like Rumours and the white album and Tusk. And I know Lindsey will release cds and tour, and I'll buy his CD and possibly see him in concert too, especially since he's no longer in FM.

Button-lip, I know you said not to say "but she sells arenas," but I really do think that's what it came down to. And I know you and I disagree on this, but I really wanted to write sincerely to you about why I am able to accept this new line up of FM. If Stevie had been fired, I would have been fine with that. And if someone had replaced her, depending on who it was, I would have been just as intrigued, especially if Ann Wilson or Pat Benatar or even Belinda Carlisle had replaced her. I mean, can you imagine?!? I would totally have been there! Actually, FM hiring Neil Finn was smart on a couple of levels, the main one being he's pretty non-threatening. What I mean by that, some people may love him, many have at least heard of him or know his song Don't Dream It's Over, but few hate the guy! He's not polarizing like some other singers might have been.

Button-lip, I would love for your thoughts on some of what I said. Do you think my theory about why FM kept Stevie over Lindsey could be true? What are your thoughts about a FM touring without Stevie, and should they have tried to replace her if they had fired her?
There you go! You don't believe it, and yet I was told that was the only reason. So, yeah, every one of us believe what we want to believe.

So, if it all comes down to Stevie's ultimátum, why aren't they just saying it? I mean, what's the big problem to just admit it? Isn't she powerful one in the band? They didn't say the real reason because they know what they did was wrong. If not, they would have said it. And if they may be playing on large venue, but so far they're empty...

Do you honestly believe there was a decision that needed to be made? Not at all. Lindsey was no threat to anyone on the band, less Stevie. I don't see this as a business and economical decision. Seriously? If that was the case, they would still be selling as any other tour, even more, and yet, these are probably the worst selling numbers in the story of the band. And really, I'm not the only one who's not giving Fakewood Mac a chance.

Are you gonna see Lindsey on his solo tour. Really? Because he was near you on his BuckVie tour and you didn't go to any of their concerts.

Well, easy to say you will continue supporting the band even if they fire Stevie when we ALL know that will never happen. EVER. EVER. EVER.
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- Lindsey Buckingham, May 11, 2018.
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  #83  
Old 05-25-2018, 07:34 PM
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Are you gonna see Lindsey on his solo tour. Really? Because he was near you on his BuckVie tour and you didn't go to any of their concerts.

Well, easy to say you will continue supporting the band even if they fire Stevie when we ALL know that will never happen. EVER. EVER. EVER.
No, I didn't see Christine and Lindsey on tour- 3 hours and 4 1/2 hours was just too far for me. I also didn't see Stevie when she played 90 minutes away, either. But now that I know Lindsey won't be touring with FM, I would definitely plan to see him solo, depending on the location. And if I had known back then he wasn't going to be touring with FM this year, I would have seen him and Christine, but I don't think anybody saw this coming.

As far as supporting FM if Stevie were fired? You bet I would. Christine's songs are my favorite, so buying an album is a no-brainer for me. Seeing them in concert? That I would be 50/50. If they replaced Stevie with someone I liked, then 100% yes, I would go see them in concert. As far as supporting FM without Stevie, I bought Time LOL but I didn't like it, and I didn't go to the concerts, either. But I didn't talk badly about people who did go, and I didn't begrudge the band for making a living. I didn't say they should have retired when Stevie and Christine and Rick left the band, I just didn't have the desire to see them live anymore.

Why would I care if Stevie was fired? She's got her own career, she tours on her own all the time, and she refused to make a new album with FM. I would have been completely been fine if they fired her! I bought 2 copies of Buck/Vie, and she wasn't on it. I am never going to feel badly for a millionaire many times over who gets fired from a band whether it's Stevie or Lindsey. Just ain't gonna happen LOL! Sorry if you don't believe me. But I at least hope we have a better understanding for why we each feel the way we do. I feel like I get your pov better now, and I can understand it, even while we disagree. I hope you feel likewise.
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  #84  
Old 05-25-2018, 08:02 PM
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No, I didn't see Christine and Lindsey on tour- 3 hours and 4 1/2 hours was just too far for me. I also didn't see Stevie when she played 90 minutes away, either. But now that I know Lindsey won't be touring with FM, I would definitely plan to see him solo, depending on the location. And if I had known back then he wasn't going to be touring with FM this year, I would have seen him and Christine, but I don't think anybody saw this coming.

As far as supporting FM if Stevie were fired? You bet I would. Christine's songs are my favorite, so buying an album is a no-brainer for me. Seeing them in concert? That I would be 50/50. If they replaced Stevie with someone I liked, then 100% yes, I would go see them in concert. As far as supporting FM without Stevie, I bought Time LOL but I didn't like it, and I didn't go to the concerts, either. But I didn't talk badly about people who did go, and I didn't begrudge the band for making a living. I didn't say they should have retired when Stevie and Christine and Rick left the band, I just didn't have the desire to see them live anymore.

Why would I care if Stevie was fired? She's got her own career, she tours on her own all the time, and she refused to make a new album with FM. I would have been completely been fine if they fired her! I bought 2 copies of Buck/Vie, and she wasn't on it. I am never going to feel badly for a millionaire many times over who gets fired from a band whether it's Stevie or Lindsey. Just ain't gonna happen LOL! Sorry if you don't believe me. But I at least hope we have a better understanding for why we each feel the way we do. I feel like I get your pov better now, and I can understand it, even while we disagree. I hope you feel likewise.

Well, then you're a better person than me because you don't talk badly about anybody. Making a living? You're saying they're millionaires and at the same time they're "making a living"? You see? They don't need the money. They're millionaires, as you said. This was pure revenge, and that's why I (and many others here) don't feel inclined to wish them luck in whatever they do. That's why I am waiting for this tour to fail.

All of us know Stevie's place in the music industry. We all know she doesn't need FM, because she has her own career where she feels more comfortable and she tours all the time and sells arenas all the time and have fun all the time. So..... wouldn't have been wiser to leave the band if she didn't want to work with Lindsey anymore? But where's the fun there? Where's the revenge in leaving the band? Yeah, it was more satisfactory for her this way.
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- Lindsey Buckingham, May 11, 2018.
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  #85  
Old 05-25-2018, 08:17 PM
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Well, then you're a better person than me because you don't talk badly about anybody. Making a living? You're saying they're millionaires and at the same time they're "making a living"? You see? They don't need the money. They're millionaires, as you said. This was pure revenge, and that's why I (and many others here) don't feel inclined to wish them luck in whatever they do. That's why I am waiting for this tour to fail.
I definitely don't think I'm a better person here. Yes they're millionaires, especially the 3 songwriters. No, I don't feel sorry for them if they get kicked out of a band... they can sell one of their yachts or summer homes or whatever LOL! The 3 songwriters are making a living touring, of course, but John and Mick in particular need the tours for income, that was what I meant. Maybe I'm wrong, but I was always under the impression the songwriters get paid more... a lot more. If I'm incorrect, someone please chime in. Since I don't feel sorry for millionaires who get kicked out of a band after 40 years and you do, maybe that makes you a better person than me. That's just how I feel, wrong or right.

And I guarantee you, if Stevie had been fired and replaced with Belinda Carlisle, I would hit as many shows as humanly possible! Lindsey wrote a song on her first album, she has a similar vibrato to Stevie, yet she's different enough that she would stand on her own. Would she be a draw? Maybe, I don't know. But I would totally be excited about the possibilities her presence would add to the band, both live and in the recording studio. Same thing with Ann Wilson or Pat Benatar. I think either one of those women would also have fit in with FM. Now, maybe that makes me a bad person but it's the honest truth. And it's not that I would have been happy Stevie was fired, but I would have enjoyed seeing one of those 3 women in her place. It is possible to feel both ways, at least for me.
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  #86  
Old 05-25-2018, 08:23 PM
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Well, then you're a better person than me because you don't talk badly about anybody. Making a living? You're saying they're millionaires and at the same time they're "making a living"? You see? They don't need the money. They're millionaires, as you said. This was pure revenge, and that's why I (and many others here) don't feel inclined to wish them luck in whatever they do. That's why I am waiting for this tour to fail.

All of us know Stevie's place in the music industry. We all know she doesn't need FM, because she has her own career where she feels more comfortable and she tours all the time and sells arenas all the time and have fun all the time. So..... wouldn't have been wiser to leave the band if she didn't want to work with Lindsey anymore? But where's the fun there? Where's the revenge in leaving the band? Yeah, it was more satisfactory for her this way.
I don't think this was really about revenge or about Stevie being vindictive or contemptful towards LB. Yes I think the BuckVie album played a part and of course the up and down between her and him that has gone on forever, but what I really, really think was the most responsible factor for all of this is just that she wanted Mike in the band. Really, if Tom hadn't passed this never would have happened and I am absolutely sure of it. 'Normal' Stevie would never have done it, she would never have wanted to tarnish the legacy of the band like that, she would never have been able to bring herself to do that to Lindsey no matter how pissed she was at him, she just never would have gone that far. But Stevie stuck in her grief? Remember this is a woman who literally married her dead best friend's widowed husband just months after she passed. It's almost crazy how all of this started just a few months after Tom's death and how much of it mirrors that situation. Tom was one of her best friends, she completely adored and was practically obsessed with him and his band. His death was so sudden and out of nowhere I'm sure it was (understandably) just a catastrophe to her. Mike was Tom's partner and her friend. She wants the person closest to Tom to be close to her, so she wanted Mike in the band (and this isn't even the first time she tried bringing one of her friends into FM). But obviously that wasn't gonna happen with Lindsey in the band and I'm sure she knew it. So when whatever happened started, Lindsey asking to delay the tour, Lindsey asking to do solo dates in between the tour, it was the golden chance to bring Mike in and she ran with it. I really don't think it was so much about her wanting Lindsey out as it was about her wanting Mike in. And given all the things we've heard, and the (albeit very shady) posts that KB has 'liked', I really do think that's the reality of what happened.
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  #87  
Old 05-25-2018, 08:25 PM
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I definitely don't think I'm a better person here. Yes they're millionaires, especially the 3 songwriters. No, I don't feel sorry for them if they get kicked out of a band... they can sell one of their yachts or summer homes or whatever LOL! The 3 songwriters are making a living touring, of course, but John and Mick in particular need the tours for income, that was what I meant. Maybe I'm wrong, but I was always under the impression the songwriters get paid more... a lot more. If I'm incorrect, someone please chime in. Since I don't feel sorry for millionaires who get kicked out of a band after 40 years and you do, maybe that makes you a better person than me. That's just how I feel, wrong or right.

And I guarantee you, if Stevie had been fired and replaced with Belinda Carlisle, I would hit as many shows as humanly possible! Lindsey wrote a song on her first album, she has a similar vibrato to Stevie, yet she's different enough that she would stand on her own. Would she be a draw? Maybe, I don't know. But I would totally be excited about the possibilities her presence would add to the band, both live and in the recording studio. Same thing with Ann Wilson or Pat Benatar. I think either one of those women would also have fit in with FM. Now, maybe that makes me a bad person but it's the honest truth. And it's not that I would have been happy Stevie was fired, but I would have enjoyed seeing one of those 3 women in her place. It is possible to feel both ways, at least for me.
Are you kidding Belinda can't sing live on key to save her life.
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Old 05-25-2018, 08:32 PM
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Are you kidding Belinda can't sing live on key to save her life.
Maybe Brandi Carlile but please no Belinda Carlile ...
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Old 05-25-2018, 08:35 PM
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Are you kidding Belinda can't sing live on key to save her life.
Shocked you didn’t follow that up with a... “well I guess that makes her a perfect fit to replace Stevie” well it’s coming, so I’ll beat everyone to to it it!
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Old 05-25-2018, 08:56 PM
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Originally Posted by dreamsunwind View Post
I don't think this was really about revenge or about Stevie being vindictive or contemptful towards LB. Yes I think the BuckVie album played a part and of course the up and down between her and him that has gone on forever, but what I really, really think was the most responsible factor for all of this is just that she wanted Mike in the band. Really, if Tom hadn't passed this never would have happened and I am absolutely sure of it. 'Normal' Stevie would never have done it, she would never have wanted to tarnish the legacy of the band like that, she would never have been able to bring herself to do that to Lindsey no matter how pissed she was at him, she just never would have gone that far. But Stevie stuck in her grief? Remember this is a woman who literally married her dead best friend's widowed husband just months after she passed. It's almost crazy how all of this started just a few months after Tom's death and how much of it mirrors that situation. Tom was one of her best friends, she completely adored and was practically obsessed with him and his band. His death was so sudden and out of nowhere I'm sure it was (understandably) just a catastrophe to her. Mike was Tom's partner and her friend. She wants the person closest to Tom to be close to her, so she wanted Mike in the band (and this isn't even the first time she tried bringing one of her friends into FM). But obviously that wasn't gonna happen with Lindsey in the band and I'm sure she knew it. So when whatever happened started, Lindsey asking to delay the tour, Lindsey asking to do solo dates in between the tour, it was the golden chance to bring Mike in and she ran with it. I really don't think it was so much about her wanting Lindsey out as it was about her wanting Mike in. And given all the things we've heard, and the (albeit very shady) posts that KB has 'liked', I really do think that's the reality of what happened.
Somewhere in Rock n' Roll Heaven Tom is shaking his head at all this and is grateful that he never caved and let Stevie join his band.
__________________
FYI: The Rumours lineup = Mick Fleetwood, John McVie, Christine McVie, Lindsey Buckingham & Stevie Nicks.

The lineup featuring Mike Campbell & Neil Finn is a Post-Rumours lineup of the band.


After 14 yrs visiting a site I once enjoyed which covered a band I once loved following, I now ‘Say Goodbye’ to both
No thanks to the faction within FM which destroyed its legacy & heavy-handed mod michelej1


This site operates at the whim of the admin&mods–a whim I'll no longer be associated with
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