It Gets Better

[Zombie]

Over in the haunting songs thread, I just posted VNV Nation's "Illusion," because I'm often reminded of it lately due to the recent heartbreaking rash of teen suicides in the LGBTIQ community, and the It Gets Better Project, which Dan Savage founded in response.

It Gets Better is a collection of videos submitted by (mostly) LGBTIQ adults letting the younger members of the community know that it might be hard right now, but it really does get better, so please, please try to hang on.

I say "mostly" above because there are some videos from heterosexual and cisgendered folks, too, like President Obama and Hilary Clinton.

As a heterosexual, cisgendered woman myself, I have no real idea how difficult it must be to grow up LGBTIQ. I can imagine a rough approximation of it, due to the bullying and harassment I suffered for my own "otherness" back in school, but I know it's not the same thing. I identify as an ally, though, and my own experiences are still part of what's behind that, so I wanted to post this.

So if anyone here is struggling with these issues, or knows someone who is, please, please go check out the It Gets Better Project and the resources they have for you there. And if anyone here struggled with these issues when they were teens, please consider contributing your own story to the project. These kids need to hear your voice as much as we need them to stick around so we can hear theirs.



I know its hard to tell
How mixed up you feel
Hoping what you need
Is behind every door
Each time you get hurt
I don't want you to change
Cuz everyone has hopes
You're human after all

The feeling sometimes
Wishing you were someone else
Feeling as though
You never belong
This feeling is not sadness
This feeling is not joy
I truly understand
Please don't cry now

Please don't go
I want you to stay
I'm begging you please
Please don't leave here
I don't want you to hate
For all the hurt that you feel
The world is just illusion
Trying to change you

Being like you are
Well this is something else
Who would comprehend
That some bad do lay claim
Divine purpose blesses them
Thats not what I believe
And it doesn't matter anyway

A part of your soul
Ties you to the next world
Or maybe to the last
But I'm still not sure
But what I do know
Is to us the world is different
As we are to the world
I guess you would know that

Please don't go
I want you to stay
I'm begging you please
Please don't leave here
I don't want you to hate
For all the hurt that you feel
The world is just illusion
Trying to change you

Please don't go
I want you to stay
I'm begging you please
Oh please don't leave here
I don't want you to change
For all the hurt that you feel
This world is just illusion
Always trying to change you

[louielouie2000]

^Thank you so much for taking the time out to post this . The response from heterosexual folk to the whole "It Gets Better" movement has been quite overwhelming and so very heartwarming. The majority of the reaction and spread of this whole movement I've personally seen has actually come from heterosexual people. As a gay male, I just can't tell you how much that means to us in the LGBTQ (Lesbian/Gay/Bisexual/Transgender/Questioning) world. It's true that absolutely everyone has their own unique set of issues and challenges growing up, but LGBTQ kids really have an especially tough trail to blaze. But much like this whole movement teaches, it does indeed get better. Much better. Life is wonderful, and as you get older, you learn to not just accept the aspects that make you different, but you learn to cherish them. I know I HATED growing up as a very tall, pale, red headed, gay kid named Louie. I might as well have had a glittery flashing target painted on my head for other kids to pick on me . But as an adult, I think all of those things are great. They make me unique, and actually attract people to me. Being different as a kid is scary and traumatic. Being different as an adult is refreshing and empowering.

If there's any LGBTQ youth here going through a tough time, reach out to someone who's been through their teens and early 20s (regardless of sexuality, gender, et al). They can tell you how it just keeps getting better. And how to turn the adversity you experience in your youth around, and let it teach you how to treat all people as best as you can. I think one of the most empowering and rewarding aspects of life is taking negative events, and allowing them to become positive learning and growth experiences.

[bluefox4000]

I think the it gets better project is wonderful. I can only hope it helps. the amount of gay teen suicides is devastating. I'm bisexual...so I know what it's like. Some people think being Bi would be easier. Nope. I went through a LONG period of confusion and depression. To the point of I wanted to just disappear. I just did not want to be me anymore. Cause at the time...being me hurt. Cut to July of 08. My wife stepped in and told me I did not have to face it alone. So I'm happy and in love now. So it does get better

Anyway that's my experience and i love this project.

I hope it helps.

Mick

[ButterCookie]

Originally Posted by bluefox4000

I think the it gets better project is wonderful. I can only hope it helps. the amount of gay teen suicides is devastating. I'm bisexual...so I know what it's like. Some people think being Bi would be easier. Nope. I went through a LONG period of confusion and depression. To the point of I wanted to just disappear. I just did not want to be me anymore. Cause at the time...being me hurt. Cut to July of 08. My wife stepped in and told me I did not have to face it alone. So I'm happy and in love now. So it does get better

Anyway that's my experience and i love this project.

I hope it helps.

Mick

I hear ya, Mick This project really is awesome (:

[bluefox4000]

Right...you know I wish I had this project for the 8 years I hated myself.

Mick

[Artemis]

I think this project is an excellent idea, and even if it only helps one kid out there, then that's still a wonderful thing to do.

The blatant discrimination against homosexual males (in particular imo) in society is pretty sick, I always feel uneasy hearing little six year olds saying "that's so gay" because people are indoctrinated (perhaps too strong a word?) from an early age that being gay is a bad thing, that it's wrong.

I've dated both guys and gals, but, my friends I see day to day only know about the gals, as do my family. I LIKE being me (I'm fabulous ;D) but, I'm not gonna tell people I know until I'm ready, and strong enough to tell them to shove off if they try and give me any grief over it.

[greendaze5]

Here's a very heartfelt response and plea from Councilman Joel Burns from Texas:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ax96cghOnY4

[Zombie]

Originally Posted by louielouie2000

^Thank you so much for taking the time out to post this.

I think it's an important message that everyone needs to hear, not just the young'uns, so I'm trying to do my bit where I can. And it does my heart good to hear that other heterosexual folks are backing this just as hard.

Plus I love anything that gets a video from the President on the same subject as a video from Buck Angel. Epic.

Originally Posted by Artemis

I think this project is an excellent idea, and even if it only helps one kid out there, then that's still a wonderful thing to do.

The blatant discrimination against homosexual males (in particular imo) in society is pretty sick, I always feel uneasy hearing little six year olds saying "that's so gay" because people are indoctrinated (perhaps too strong a word?) from an early age that being gay is a bad thing, that it's wrong.

I've dated both guys and gals, but, my friends I see day to day only know about the gals, as do my family. I LIKE being me (I'm fabulous ;D) but, I'm not gonna tell people I know until I'm ready, and strong enough to tell them to shove off if they try and give me any grief over it.

I do not think "indoctrinated" is too strong a word. Using the word "gay" in that context is not allowed in my house and never has been, but my 10 year old son still managed to pick it up at school along with the idea that being gay is "gross." I've had to have the "it's not gross, you love who you love, and it doesn't matter if you love a boy or a girl, etc" talk with him twice this month alone, and it really frustrates me.

To be honest, sometimes I wonder if he actually thinks it's gross or if he just says it to see if he can annoy me, because the first time he popped off with something like that, I was all, "WHAAAAT? Where did you hear that? omgwtfbbq, that is not how I am raising you." Subsequent discussions have been much more calm, where I use a similar tone of voice as I would if I was discussing anything else normal, like the weather, but honestly, I was SO surprised to hear something like that come out of his mouth the first time, I couldn't squelch the "asdfghjkdaajdhga!!!!111eleventyone" reaction. I mean, I sure as hell don't talk like that around my kids (or anyone else, for that matter, but you know what I mean), so what the hell?

Sigh.

Originally Posted by greendaze5

Here's a very heartfelt response and plea from Councilman Joel Burns from Texas:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ax96cghOnY4

That made me cry when I first saw it a few days ago. Both his story, and the standing ovation he got at the end.

Originally Posted by bluefox4000

I think the it gets better project is wonderful. I can only hope it helps. the amount of gay teen suicides is devastating. I'm bisexual...so I know what it's like. Some people think being Bi would be easier. Nope. I went through a LONG period of confusion and depression. To the point of I wanted to just disappear. I just did not want to be me anymore. Cause at the time...being me hurt. Cut to July of 08. My wife stepped in and told me I did not have to face it alone. So I'm happy and in love now. So it does get better

Anyway that's my experience and i love this project.

I hope it helps.

Mick

I'm glad to hear it got better for you. Your wife sounds like good people. Give her a hug for me for supporting you (you don't have to tell her it's actually from a random internet stranger, though ).

[nailatixela]

Thanks for posting this thread, Zombie. And thanks to greendaze for that youtube link. That was a really touching video.

Some people think being Bi would be easier. Nope. I went through a LONG period of confusion and depression.

I so agree with this. I'm 18. Most of my life I didn't even realize there was a word to describe what I was feeling. All around me seemed to be a message that people are either straight or gay - and one is most certainly better than the other. So I too also suffered a lot of confusion, and especially a lot of suppression of my true feelings. I hadn't come out to anyone til recently. I didn't "come out to myself" as bi til just over the summer.

Artemis, I can relate to you too. I hope you are soon comfortable to come out to whoever you wish...you are strong enough! Send me a message if you want, it would be cool to talk. I'm very happy that I've come out to my mom, dad and brother. It was very hard. And there are still a lot of struggles ahead but I think I've gone through the worst parts. I've come out to a close friend, and a couple other friends, when it just happened to come up in conversation by chance.

But coming out to the rest of my family will be hard. My Mom is a moderate, my Dad is a real conservative, and I'm really happy I didn't have to go through any period of them rejecting me after I came out to them. I don't know how much exactly they support LGBT freedoms/causes, and I've also realized they really won't ever be able to understand what I go/went through. But they love me and that is what is most important. The rest of my family is very conservative. It's painful to hear them say things that show their support for bigots, or bigoted viewpoints, because that makes coming out to them that much harder for me, and everyone else who lives with such a family. I know they love me...but I know me being bi will come as a surprise to them, and I don't know how they will take it. Everyone I've come out to was surprised.

Then there is the attack on bisexually (especially on male bisexuals) from within the gay community. I've heard many comments on the invalidity of bisexuality, and general comments against bisexuals. Like how we don't really exist, or are just waiting to come out as gay. I've even seen these types of comments by gay members of this forum, and even at my school's gay straight alliance. Based on who they are coming from, this boggles my mind.

Sorry for writing so much! I don't mean to hijack the thread. But it's close to my heart, and I think the it gets better message is a really great one and I'm happy there is a discussion about it.

[bluefox4000]

That was a great read. I've gotten a lot of hate from gay people because they say i'm in a phase. I don't know what i Want. These guys should know better after what they go through. Those guys are being just as close-minded as the people they fight. It's sad really......Sigh I have my wife. But i've been in relationships with guys.and it was also wonderful. So yea

Mick

[louielouie2000]

Originally Posted by nailatixela

Thanks for posting this thread, Zombie. And thanks to greendaze for that youtube link. That was a really touching video.



I so agree with this. I'm 18. Most of my life I didn't even realize there was a word to describe what I was feeling. All around me seemed to be a message that people are either straight or gay - and one is most certainly better than the other. So I too also suffered a lot of confusion, and especially a lot of suppression of my true feelings. I hadn't come out to anyone til recently. I didn't "come out to myself" as bi til just over the summer.

Artemis, I can relate to you too. I hope you are soon comfortable to come out to whoever you wish...you are strong enough! Send me a message if you want, it would be cool to talk. I'm very happy that I've come out to my mom, dad and brother. It was very hard. And there are still a lot of struggles ahead but I think I've gone through the worst parts. I've come out to a close friend, and a couple other friends, when it just happened to come up in conversation by chance.

But coming out to the rest of my family will be hard. My Mom is a moderate, my Dad is a real conservative, and I'm really happy I didn't have to go through any period of them rejecting me after I came out to them. I don't know how much exactly they support LGBT freedoms/causes, and I've also realized they really won't ever be able to understand what I go/went through. But they love me and that is what is most important. The rest of my family is very conservative. It's painful to hear them say things that show their support for bigots, or bigoted viewpoints, because that makes coming out to them that much harder for me, and everyone else who lives with such a family. I know they love me...but I know me being bi will come as a surprise to them, and I don't know how they will take it. Everyone I've come out to was surprised.

Then there is the attack on bisexually (especially on male bisexuals) from within the gay community. I've heard many comments on the invalidity of bisexuality, and general comments against bisexuals. Like how we don't really exist, or are just waiting to come out as gay. I've even seen these types of comments by gay members of this forum, and even at my school's gay straight alliance. Based on who they are coming from, this boggles my mind.

Sorry for writing so much! I don't mean to hijack the thread. But it's close to my heart, and I think the it gets better message is a really great one and I'm happy there is a discussion about it.

Honestly, the older you get, the less you give a sh!t about what others think of you, including your family. You realize it's your life to live, and not anyone else's. You have a right to happiness, and to do things in your own way. Those who try to infringe on that have their own issues, and should be let known you have no place for such things. The older I get, the more I find I'm tolerant of most everything. Except BS, and others treating people badly. I have a very, very short fuse for such things. You'll find your peace and middle ground. It just takes some time. And in time others who might have had an issue with your sexuality at first will come to realize you're just the same as everyone else. I find that to be one of the most fulfilling things about being a gay male: putting a human face to homosexuality, and driving back stereotypes to people who may not have been around gay folk before.

Regarding the whole bisexuality thing, I know how tough that is. My first bf was bi, and I've had quite a few bi friends. They've all said the same thing: they get the most sh!t from the gay community, surprisingly. I think that's unfortunate. It seems the gay community is hell bent on treating each other badly, and that's something I've just never got. The majority of the world hates our existence, why must we further divide ourselves? Whenever I see gay men being catty to each other about their appearance, etc it just enrages me. I just don't get it. We should all be judged on our behavior; how we treat ourselves and others. Nothing else. You'll find your comfort zone, and great people to surround yourself with.

[Nikolaj]

I admire the 'It Gets Better' mission, and if it saves even one life, that's great.
But, the truth is, in some ways, it doesn't get better. It's just the way the US culture sees gay men, unless you're in major cities like LA, NY and probably many others. Anti-gay slurs are one of the last acceptable forms of bigotry allowed- most everyone knows now to use the 'N' racial slur word, or make anti-Semitic comments, but the 'f' term for gay men - or used just as an insult to any man- is still a part of life that hasn't gotten better. For many, 'being tolerated' is as good as it gets, and really, who wants to be 'tolerated?'
Don't mistake me, it is a very good thing the organization is doing.
I've just lived long enough in the US to know that when you compare the progress made in the past 30 or 40 years in civil rights, womens rights and laws protecting children, homosexual men (and homosexual women) are still way behind, comparatively. Gay men and women pay the same taxes as heterosexuals, who can marry any person of the opposite sex they wish, if both are of legal age.
In many states, gays and lesbians still can't marry, or even get insurance for their partners. The US constitution says 'all men (implying women, as well) are created equal... with... life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness"--- Well, it simply isn't true that the US Constitution is upheld for 'all men' if gay men and gay women can't pursue happiness by getting married as any straight man can do, and yet the US allows it to continue. In legal terms, all that is upheld nationally is that all heterosexual men can pursue their lives, liberty and happiness.
The truth remains that many individuals and groups are still hell-bent on making sure homosexual men and women don't have the same basic rights as 'all men' who are supposedly created equal have, and it's just a question of human rights that should have been corrected ages ago and hasn't been.
But the teens do need hope, so it's great 'It Gets Better' exists, maybe it will help. I agree with Louie that you care less as you get older about what anyone thinks about you, but it's still a fact that it's not an easy road, especially if you really think about how far gay and lesbians have not come in being assured of basic human rights by law.

[Zombie]

Originally Posted by nailatixela

Then there is the attack on bisexually (especially on male bisexuals) from within the gay community. I've heard many comments on the invalidity of bisexuality, and general comments against bisexuals. Like how we don't really exist, or are just waiting to come out as gay. I've even seen these types of comments by gay members of this forum, and even at my school's gay straight alliance. Based on who they are coming from, this boggles my mind.

Sorry for writing so much! I don't mean to hijack the thread. But it's close to my heart, and I think the it gets better message is a really great one and I'm happy there is a discussion about it.

Don't apologize. Say what you need to say. The point you brought up about bisexuality is something I have noticed before, but what I usually hear from straight folk is that old "saying you're bi just means you're desperate, you'll take it any way you can get it" thing. I can imagine that behavior from anyone, gay or straight, is really frustrating and disheartening.

Originally Posted by louielouie2000

Regarding the whole bisexuality thing, I know how tough that is. My first bf was bi, and I've had quite a few bi friends. They've all said the same thing: they get the most sh!t from the gay community, surprisingly. I think that's unfortunate. It seems the gay community is hell bent on treating each other badly, and that's something I've just never got. The majority of the world hates our existence, why must we further divide ourselves? Whenever I see gay men being catty to each other about their appearance, etc it just enrages me. I just don't get it. We should all be judged on our behavior; how we treat ourselves and others. Nothing else. You'll find your comfort zone, and great people to surround yourself with.

Y'know, I get pissed off at the same behavior when I see women (straight or not) doing that to each other. "OMG, just because I'm a size 18 doesn't mean I'm not pretty or sexy, so why can't we just get real women in the fashion magazines instead of all those anorexic models that need to eat a sandwich?" Uhm, last I checked, supermodels aren't, like, Borg or something, so they're still "real women," whatever that means. And if you don't want people body-shaming you for your size, don't body-shame other people for theirs. Jeez. We have enough pressure on us from outside sources, why do we need to tear each other down in the process? Boggling.

Not trying to derail, just what you said reminded me of other similar annoying behavior.

Originally Posted by Nikolaj

I admire the 'It Gets Better' mission, and if it saves even one life, that's great.
But, the truth is, in some ways, it doesn't get better. It's just the way the US culture sees gay men, unless you're in major cities like LA, NY and probably many others. Anti-gay slurs are one of the last acceptable forms of bigotry allowed- most everyone knows now to use the 'N' racial slur word, or make anti-Semitic comments, but the 'f' term for gay men - or used just as an insult to any man- is still a part of life that hasn't gotten better. For many, 'being tolerated' is as good as it gets, and really, who wants to be 'tolerated?'
Don't mistake me, it is a very good thing the organization is doing.
I've just lived long enough in the US to know that when you compare the progress made in the past 30 or 40 years in civil rights, womens rights and laws protecting children, homosexual men (and homosexual women) are still way behind, comparatively. Gay men and women pay the same taxes as heterosexuals, who can marry any person of the opposite sex they wish, if both are of legal age.
In many states, gays and lesbians still can't marry, or even get insurance for their partners. The US constitution says 'all men (implying women, as well) are created equal... with... life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness"--- Well, it simply isn't true that the US Constitution is upheld for 'all men' if gay men and gay women can't pursue happiness by getting married as any straight man can do, and yet the US allows it to continue. In legal terms, all that is upheld nationally is that all heterosexual men can pursue their lives, liberty and happiness.
The truth remains that many individuals and groups are still hell-bent on making sure homosexual men and women don't have the same basic rights as 'all men' who are supposedly created equal have, and it's just a question of human rights that should have been corrected ages ago and hasn't been.
But the teens do need hope, so it's great 'It's Get Better' exists, maybe it will help. I agree with Louie that you care less as you get older about what anyone thinks about you, but it's still a fact that it's not an easy road, especially if you really think about how far gay and lesbians have not come in being assured of basic human rights by law.

You have a valid point here, and it's one that many others have been making since the project started. You can read some of those views here and here.

You are right that it doesn't always get better for everyone. Even if the laws magically changed tomorrow and all LGBTIQ folks were afforded the same privileges us straight folks have, there would still be a large number of kids that suffer and grow up and still suffer. It's true that the gay rights movement has not progressed anywhere near as far as it should have by now, and that the progress that has been made has taken a long time, but I think that in order for that change to speed up and happen already, we need voices - voices from allies like me, yes, but mainly voices from the LGBTIQ community. Any time a gay youth commits suicide because they lost hope, a voice is lost - a voice that could have grown up to make an impact.

So I don't think of it as offering false hope, but providing some support to kids that desperately need it, in hopes that it will help them stick around longer and fight for what they deserve and should already have.

[louielouie2000]

Originally Posted by Zombie

Y'know, I get pissed off at the same behavior when I see women (straight or not) doing that to each other. "OMG, just because I'm a size 18 doesn't mean I'm not pretty or sexy, so why can't we just get real women in the fashion magazines instead of all those anorexic models that need to eat a sandwich?" Uhm, last I checked, supermodels aren't, like, Borg or something, so they're still "real women," whatever that means. And if you don't want people body-shaming you for your size, don't body-shame other people for theirs. Jeez. We have enough pressure on us from outside sources, why do we need to tear each other down in the process? Boggling.

Not trying to derail, just what you said reminded me of other similar annoying behavior.

I actually just had a similar conversation with a friend of mine recently. She was talking about how grating it is that people constantly tell her she needs to eat more, that's she's too skinny, etc. She thinks it's reverse discrimination... that she should be able to turn around and say to that person "you're too overweight, you need to eat less" etc. She's absolutely right... why is it ok to tell someone they're skinny and should eat more, but it's not ok to tell somebody they're overweight and should cut out the burgers? Either way you're commenting on somebody's body, and letting it be known you're not pleased with what you see.

Back on topic, body image was only partially what I was referencing in regards to gay men treating each other poorly. Fashion is a huge deal too (as it is for women too, no doubt). Gays can be downright vicious to each other about what other folks wear, their hairstyle, the cars they drive, where they live, and other inane crap like that. It's exhausting. It just seems like the dumbest thing in the world to be cruel about, especially since the majority of the world already hates us gay folk. Why splinter ourselves even more? LGBTQ folk should really focus more on unification and taking care of one another vs turning that same hate on ourselves. Moral is: appreciate variety... that's what keeps life interesting!

[Zombie]

Originally Posted by louielouie2000

I actually just had a similar conversation with a friend of mine recently. She was talking about how grating it is that people constantly tell her she needs to eat more, that's she's too skinny, etc. She thinks it's reverse discrimination... that she should be able to turn around and say to that person "you're too overweight, you need to eat less" etc. She's absolutely right... why is it ok to tell someone they're skinny and should eat more, but it's not ok to tell somebody they're overweight and should cut out the burgers? Either way you're commenting on somebody's body, and letting it be known you're not pleased with what you see.

Back on topic, body image was only partially what I was referencing in regards to gay men treating each other poorly. Fashion is a huge deal too (as it is for women too, no doubt). Gays can be downright vicious to each other about what other folks wear, their hairstyle, the cars they drive, where they live, and other inane crap like that. It's exhausting. It just seems like the dumbest thing in the world to be cruel about, especially since the majority of the world already hates us gay folk. Why splinter ourselves even more? LGBTQ folk should really focus more on unification and taking care of one another vs turning that same hate on ourselves. Moral is: appreciate variety... that's what keeps life interesting!

The tricky problem with the "reverse discrimination" idea your friend has is that being thin comes with inherent privilege that the overweight among us do not benefit from, and when a thin person says, "Well, I get concern-trolled, too, so my experience is just as valid as yours," they're wrong. This is not to say that thin people don't get hurt when someone tells them they're too skinny and they need to eat a sandwich, because it is not right that ANYONE be body-shamed, but, in general, thin folks don't experience the world the same way fat people do - a thin person can usually walk into any ol' regular clothing store and find many things that will fit, they are not overlooked for jobs due to weight, etc, etc. We each have to be aware of what privilege we may be benefitting from and use that to examine our experiences appropriately.

I say this because this question of privilege plays heavily into other areas of our lives, from discrimination due to race to discrimination due to sexual orientation to discrimination due to religion. And THAT is not to say that the struggle of the overweight is in any way as "serious" as people that experience racism or homophobia, but privilege plays a role in much the same way. So, that's why when I pointed out earlier that as a heterosexual, cisgendered woman that did experience harassment and bullying due to my general "weirdness" back in school, I STILL can't say that my experience is comparable to the harassment and bullying that GLBTIQ kids experience. Because it's just not. I have the inherent privilege of being heterosexual and cisgendered, which prevents me from being treated the same way. I was targeted as an individual, not a member of a larger community that has to deal with things that are both far more serious and directly impact the quality of life for that group as a whole.

All of that was just a long-winded way of saying - we ALL experience bad shizz in our lives at some point or another, but we experience it to different degrees and in different ways, and we must all work to be aware of our respective privilege. If I were to say that my high school experience is exactly like the high school experience of, say, a transgendered teen in rural Idaho, I'd be minimalizing and trivializing not only that particular teen's struggle, but that of the LGBTIQ community's struggle in general, as well.

Anyhoodle, I see what you are saying about the way some gay males treat others, and I did not think you were referring only to body image - I just used that as an example when relating my own observation. I am curious to hear your thoughts on why gay males engage in that kind of behavior, though. I know that women can behave much the same way, and I believe a lot of it has to do with the way we're taught to view ourselves through an objectifying, heterosexual, cisgendered male lens. I wonder if this behavior in gay males stems at least partly from that same source.

Originally Posted by Kena

To Zombie and others who spoke about bisexuality...

This thread really struck a cord with me, in a good "I need to share" type of way. First off let me say I have a way of sticking my foot in my mouth sometimes so please forgive me if I don't explain something correctly or I don't use a term in a people first way. I really really have all good intentions. This topic is something I have really needed to talk about because I have no one around here that understands this...

I had always dated men up until a year ago when I met a special lady. I knew she was open about being a lesbian but she was also very cute and neat and smart and I liked her from the start. Through her I got introduced to a lesbian community, not just an occasional friend or coworker here and there who was gay, or people I met at clubs... This was a small group of ladies who were professional and around my age (30 and up). Little did I know that it was some sort of special club and I wasn't ever going to be in it because I "liked the penis" and "just wanted a man's protrusion" and I "was a breeder" because I have kids and I was just going to run back to men and I could never fully love a woman. It was awful especially because I have always been best friends with girls and am used to being close to women. I have never been kicked to the curb and felt so betrayed by a group of people, especially women!

My girl, the poet in my heart (bet you can't guess her name )stayed by my side and we did our own thing. She liked my kids. She and I had similar interests. We shared clothes, bought each other candles and scarf’s. I lurved this girl. Very much so. It was all very very precious to me until one day it was bad. Like throwing things and hitting each other bad. I finally had to break up with her and then it's "told ya she liked the penis and his protrusion.” Again, awful.

So what’s the moral of the story? I’m not exactly sure. Dating a lady seemed very natural to me and I did have a moment of “ah ha, maybe this is what my deal is with men and why I can’t find a man to date or that I want to be with.” It doesn't make me want to say I'm done with men though. Soooo does that make me bisexual? I guess if you have to label it. To me, it makes it seem like I'm just like a cat in the dark looking for action from anyone....see, that's not a good thing to say, but that's my hang up on things, my own frame of mind about something that I once knew nothing about but now have experienced. I am not ruling an entire gender out. I'm open, not open for business, just open to getting to know different people.

It's all very confusing and I appreciate all of you that have shared your own stories of frustration and confusion. I think the It Gets Better project is a wonderful thing. Based on my own experience I can only imagine how confused younger people are. I feel for a teenager who thinks taking their own life is the only answer. It hurts my heart.

Thanks for sharing your story and experiences, cookie. I can almost hear your frustration and confusion through the screen here, and I'd give you a hug if I could. I am not sure if this will help you work through your "does that make me bisexual?" confusion or not, but I do not think we have to look at sexuality as a binary (gay or straight and that's that) or even a ternary (gay, straight, or bisexual, and that's that), but a more fluid spectrum of sexual orientation.

The binary or ternary view automatically excludes a ton of different people - for example, it doesn't make room for the asexual or the intersexed. And it doesn't allow for the person that doesn't feel or identify as homosexual, but meets one "special" same-sex person and falls in love (or lust) just that one time. So it doesn't have to be a "one or the other" situation - you can fall anywhere on the spectrum, and where you fall is just where you fall, and that's that.

Does that make sense? For example, I identify as straight, but back in the day, I did have a relationship with another girl. She was the first woman I had ever wanted to do that with and the last - I haven't met another chick that I would want to have sex with. That doesn't make me a lesbian or bisexual if I don't sincerely feel like I'm a lesbian or bisexual - it just makes me a straight chick that got it on with a girl once. And I'm reminded of something Margaret Cho once said about that one time she had sex with a woman on a lesbian cruise and then got all confused about whether she's gay or not - "But then I realized, I'm not gay...I'm just slutty. Where's my parade?"