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  #31  
Old 06-18-2002, 07:47 PM
madformac madformac is offline
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Lindsey got out of his "cocoon" long enough to help out Tom Petty didn't he, looks like he's crawled back into it before anything remotely Mac based leaked out!
Maybe we could get an idea what Lindsey's gonna release with Fleetwood Mac by listening to Petty's new album, Lindsey's riffs on that won't be too dissimilar will they?

Maybe Lindsey should spend some time with Eminem he seems to like what he's doing. Could inject some new life into Buck, maybe he would even bleach his hair!

We all want some fresh work from Lindsey, not something as fresh as Dodo s$*t! Come on Mr.Buckingham, prove us wrong!
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  #32  
Old 06-18-2002, 07:59 PM
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One thing's for sure, Petty will release two or three albums before we see a new Fleetwood Mac album!

At least, with playing with "Mr. Canplayeverysongintheworld" Benmont Tench, Lindsey'll pick up a few things from working with them...as much as they'll learn a few things about record production from Lindsey.

If "Walls (Circus)" from the "She's The One" soundtrack is any indication of how this collaboration will work out, I'm almost looking forward with more anticipation to Petty's new album than I am for Fleetwood Mac's.
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  #33  
Old 06-18-2002, 08:00 PM
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wondergirl9847 wondergirl9847 is offline
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Talking LINDSEY RULES!!

Well, I LOVE Lindsey, he amazes ME with his passionate guitar playing, and even INSPIRED ME to pick up the instrument. That's all I need to show ME that, in MY opinion, Lindsey is MY favorite guitarist. No one else I have heard so far has captured the essence I hear in Lindsey's playing. If he redoes the same old guitar "theme", then so be it, as long as I love it, I don't give a rat's patootie what anyone else thinks. Thank you and goodnight.

BTW, I bolded all the me and I's to make a point, it's all about OPINION in my humble opinon. We can argue who's better, faster, greater, but we love who we love and that's that. We have to respect each other's opinons!
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  #34  
Old 06-18-2002, 08:28 PM
madformac madformac is offline
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Default My "final thought"

well put wondergirl9847, everybody has a view.

Remember, opinions are like a"£holes, everybody has one.

My "Jerry Springer" final thought tonight on this matter is that Lindsey is a musical genius, undisputable, but he does need to give us something new to say WOW! to, not release something recycled, he believes in cycles doesn't he (?). Many people view him as a true great, which he is.

This thread was originally about Buckingham vs Knopfler.

Mark Knopfler is a better guitarist than Lindsey, maybe THE best, you will have to listen to his live work to judge him. Lindsey is a better musician, with all the areas it entales than Mark is and I prefer to listen to his work than Knopfler's. We can chase our tails all day over this but it's 2:20am here and I'm going to bed.

In the words of LB "That's enough for me"

Sweet dreams.
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  #35  
Old 06-18-2002, 09:39 PM
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Default ...[silence after the gun shots]...Enter a third humble musician...Seteca...

[Edit to post: I started writing this over an hour ago, when the thread was only 2 pages long, I see now that it's 3, so this is in reply to all thoughts and posts posted in the first 2 pages. Also, I want to make it clear that everything written below is MY OPINION
- I enjoy and appreciate reading the opinions of all Ledgies, and love discussing and arguing points regarding FM and LB...it's the reason why I signed up to The Ledge in the first place.]

Ok, before deaththreats start roaming around the place I just wanna get my say in on this aswell...

On the subject of Billy Burnette and Rick Vito, I haven't heard anything even near enough of their music to have a fair opinion on them as guitarists, so I won't try to compare them to LB in any way.

However, Lindsey Buckingham is somebody I can say a few things about.

In my humble opinion, and as a member of that strange breed of humans known as "guitarists"......

There's nothing that ChiliD or Madformac have written that I would massively disagree with, regarding the similarity factor in Lindsey's songs and guitar solos etc etc.

[[[I too have noticed many many similarities in many of the guitar riffs and solos he puts in, in both studio and live songs, and also many general musical similarities in many of his songs. ChiliD made a pretty good list of these songs in a thread here on the LB forum not so long ago, but even then I remember that despite the large number of named songs, it wasn't complete...there were still some missing that I had noticed.]]]

BUT

Ok, so to a more musical (or musically minded) fan, LB's work on many occasions lacks originality....but....is that so bad (in fact, is it even a problem on any level), if it still sounds great...?? Which, IMO....it always does. I'll give an example.....I really like the original version of Big Love, in fact I'm probably one of the few people who likes it more than the live version, and you don't exactly have to be Mozart to notice the similarity between it and Doing What I Can from OOTC...but...I ALSO LOVE Doing What I Can......and I hate breaking songs down to its individual parts for analysis (because with any song I firmly believe the whole is always greater than the sum of the parts, as Lindsey would say!), but yes, musically, if I analysed why I like it, it would be for the same reasons as Big Love. However, I don't sit down and go "[3CPO Voice with R2D2 squeaking in the background]Hmm....yes...that guitar solo at the end gets 8 out of 10....the vocals aren't that great so they get 5 out of 10...but the bass and drums are killer...they get 9 out of 10....therefore....conclusion I give this song 8 out of 10....therefore by logic that means I like it!"..........!!!!

What I'm trying to say is....if I hear something and I like it, then I like it. I don't try to figure out if it's worthy and original enough for me to like it. Yes, as a guitarist, I can clearly see that I'm So Afraid, Frozen Love, Tango In The Night and Murrow all share very similar (in many ways) guitar solos.....but.....just look at these four songs that I've just named.....these are (again, IMO, as with obviously everything I've written seeing as it has my screenname next to it!!) BRILLIANT songs.....it's songs like these which have caused me to sign up for boards like The Ledge and wait in massive frustration as to when I'm going to get something new from this incredibly talented man:

Instead of looking at it negatively, and saying that 30 years ago Lindsey came up with a bunch of really good ideas and has simply continued using them and thought of nothing new since then by using ever-improving technology to "cover his tracks", I would say 30 years ago Lindsey came up with a bunch of really good ideas which would become one of the single most easily identifiable sounds in rock history - the sound of the Rumours-era Fleetwood Mac - that, to me, immediately makes him a musical genius. He then managed to maintain this sound for 30 years using ever-improving technology, which again is incredible- just because he's using technology, does not make him any less of a musical genius - if you give the world's best Cray computer to a baboon there's pretty much nothing the baboon is gonna do with it - it takes a lot to be able to use technology to immaculately keep your signature sound like that. Listen to Gold Dust Woman from the Rumours LP....it sounds like it's from the 70s.....all mysterious........then listen to Gold Dust Woman from the Dance CD, and it sounds totally modern (i.e. the average Dance-viewer I'm pretty sure did not tune in and say "Oh what is this 70s crap???") and yet it's managed to perfectly keep that 70s mysterious "druggy" sound about it - and how has he done that.....? If you want to break it down musically: using the same two chords but with lots of reverb and about a 440ms delay. If you want it simply, I would say: incredible talent.

Lindsey has managed to perfectly preserve his sound and musical atmosphere for 30 years - a sound and feeling which has accumulated millions of fans. Yes, as a guitarist I can sit down and try to figure which scales and riffs and licks he's repeated where (and it's not too challenging if you choose to do that with Lindsey's songs but so what??), or just as somebody who isn't deaf I can notice the similarites (however obvious or subtle) between many of his songs......OR........I can sit down, relax and listen to music at its absolute finest: instead of getting to Doing What I Can and shouting "Oh come on!! Who're you trying to fool Lindsey!! Aggghhh!!!! "...........I DO think "Yea!!! This song absolutely ROCKS!!!!!" When I listen to "I'm So Afraid" I don't think "AAAAAAAAGGGHHH!!...this solo....it's Frozen Love all over again!!! "......instead I pick up my guitar, plug it in and play the solo, and each and every time feel the absolutely awesome power of one his greatest songs.

I don't think I'm being naive....I'm just a really big fan of the emotions and sense of the sound which he has kept through the years. Pure and simple. If the stuff he did in '73 was his only original work (which, by the way, I do not believe for even one second to be true), then I love it, and I'll have it every year till the day I die and if he makes more music using that same structure, chords, scales, riffs, licks, and most importantly, sound, then I'll have that too....a million times over. If it takes him 150 years "cocooned" in his studio to give me "Frozen Love Part 25" then I will happily (although impatiently!! ) wait for him.


Last edited by seteca; 06-18-2002 at 10:33 PM..
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  #36  
Old 06-18-2002, 11:03 PM
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wondergirl9847 wondergirl9847 is offline
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Thumbs up Seteca...

WOW, great job. I agree, I really really LOVE chocolate ice cream, and OMG, I LOVE chocolate almond (tweaked chocolate ice cream) and OH YEAH, GIVE ME SOME Mint Chocolate Chip!!!!! I love them all, yes, they are basically, the same thing, just tweaked a bit, but GOOD GOD ALMIGHTY, they are all DELICIOUS!! But, as you said in your disclaimer, it's all about opinion. Some of us cats love Knopfler better, some of us love Lindsey, that's what makes the world go round...VARIETY! :
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  #37  
Old 06-19-2002, 02:32 PM
Carole Ann Carole Ann is offline
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Thumbs up Wow

Thank God someone finally straightened us all out. We were inching distressingly close to an interesting give-and-take amongst our three resident musicians. Can't be havin' THAT!

I wish mad, seteca and chili could've continued your exchanges; toe-ing the company line will keep you out of trouble, though, so a good, informative, INTERESTING (thanks, guys...finally!) thread has been brought to its knees by everyone agreeing to disagree. And just when it was getting good.
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  #38  
Old 06-19-2002, 03:22 PM
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chiliD chiliD is offline
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Yeah, it's gotten a little too "politically correct" hasn't it.
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  #39  
Old 06-19-2002, 03:31 PM
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Default Hmm...

You dominated a conversation and expressed all of your opinions with folks who didn't throw tantrums, and although disagreed with aspects of your opinion, respected it anyway. Yeah, that's a real hardship. I don't know how you can live with it.
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  #40  
Old 06-19-2002, 04:56 PM
Carole Ann Carole Ann is offline
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Red face Yeah, Les

I'm thinking "Trouble in Trying Times," maybe...

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  #41  
Old 06-19-2002, 05:09 PM
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Wink

I was thinking more of a Carly Simon tune...
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  #42  
Old 06-19-2002, 05:11 PM
Carole Ann Carole Ann is offline
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Talking Rim shot!

Bah-dah-BUM.
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  #43  
Old 06-19-2002, 05:28 PM
madformac madformac is offline
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Default No Comment

I could add a few more interesting points to this debate...... But I'm not going to. I have given my word.

Don't want to rock the boat, somebody might get sea sick!

In the spirit of all the great politicians, "No Comment".

Political correctness and all that.....



But then again, who knows!!!! , One of these days.....
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  #44  
Old 06-19-2002, 05:46 PM
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Lots of accusations of "death threats" and political correctness abound...and yet the conversation could continue if the interested parties wanted it to. Why not continue?
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  #45  
Old 06-19-2002, 06:28 PM
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sodascouts sodascouts is offline
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Default Ouch!

Well, this is thought-provoking! Just today I was listening to "Loving Cup" in the car and thinking how it reminded me of "I'm So Afraid" in some ways.

I agree that Lindsey has isolated himself too much. I think he's always had a bit of a self-indulgent streak ever since he made a truckload of money off of Rumours and started to become obsessed with, ironically enough, NOT sounding as if he was trying to repeat past success. It's like he was trying so hard not to seem like he was appealing to mainstream masses that he dedicated himself to the other extreme. "This is about what I think is genius and I'm the only one I have to please and everybody else can just go to hell!" It's so weird, though, because even as he did this he seemed to really want everybody to eat it up regardless, and seemed so crushed that his fans weren't "ready" for his genius. (By the way, comments like that have always made me feel like a loser, as I thought Rumours was better than Tusk). Ah, Lindsey, so fiercely defiant and so desperately needy at the same time!

Not to say that one shouldn't be true to himself. Of course Lindsey shouldn't produce crap just to appeal to the masses. Indeed, I do believe that "Out of the Cradle" (my fave LB album) was dead-on in that he resisted that compulsion to discard anything that sounded mainstream.....but I think years in the studio alone might make that compulsion creep up on him once again. I think that's why I've always, as a whole, liked his FM stuff better (with exceptions, of course).

That said, I truly do think that Lindsey is a genius and he's my favorite guitarist EVER. I know, I'm only a humble fan who has no musial knowledge beyond seven years of violin lessons from the ages of 11-18, but when I listened to "I'm So Afraid" off of the Dance album I felt like I had done more than just hear a song, I had EXPERIENCED a song! I'll never forget the first time I heard it - playing the Dance in the car - I kept thinking, "This is the climax" - and then he'd keep going - "No, THIS is the climax" - and then he'd keep going - "Ok THIS IS THE CLIMAX!" I actually sat in the parking lot after it was through thinking "That was AMAZING." I'd never felt that after listening to any guitarist before.

So, like Seteca, I'm not going to stop liking something because it may have been repetitive in some way. It's only when it gets ridiculous (sorry, Seteca, but DWIC is RIDICULOUSLY close to Big Love, IMO) that I get huffy about it. lol

It's all about what you respond to. I respond to LB's playing not only because of his technical prowess (which I believe is incredible) but there are other layers to his music as well. I realize how vague and indefinable I'm sounding....I'm sorry I'm not more eloquent on this subject, probably because I've never tried to analyze why I like him so much before. I think there's an underlying depth to a lot of his work that I find emotionally compelling, and this comes through in his playing as well. OK, that sounds like BS, doesn't it?! Ack! It's so much easier to analyze whether somebody can pick faster or cleaner or whatever than the much more subjective "special something" that takes technical skill to the next level. I believe Lindsey has that "special something." It's like faith, you can't touch it or explain it but you know it's there and you know it's real. :-)

I just hope that something doesn't get obscured by that aforementioned self-indulgent tendency that focuses solely on the technical and neglects what REALLY makes good music - and it's not a VSO or even (gasp) a superhuman ability to play guitar. It's music that comes from the heart.

OK, now, tear me apart, folks. ;-)
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Last edited by sodascouts; 06-19-2002 at 07:52 PM..
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