Conspiracy Theory #101.

[shebop]

Life must be nice on your planet!

Ignorance is bliss - sometimes I wish I could feel that way.

[shebop]

Originally Posted by michelej1

I think it makes them feel unleashed.

Michele

I REALLY wish I had said that.......

[kennation]

Originally Posted by shebop

Life must be nice on your planet!

Ignorance is bliss - sometimes I wish I could feel that way.

Life is great here on my planet. I am not sure if ignorance is the word to use. OPTIMISM is BLISS. Absolute BLISS!!! lol

[Nicks Fan]

In my oppinion it is about the all mighty dollar and the fact that their egos couldn't take it if they had to play smaller venues. If this tour is a bust that may change their minds regarding a new album and tour. For me I have always hated bands that go out for the money and nothing more. I mean look at The Eagles. Sure they have a new album to promote but how many fans going to a show honestly care about the new stuff anyway., They are here for the hits and to charge upwards of 200.00 for the tickets to hear just that is absurd and a slap in the face to the average joe who can barely afford the basics of life (Food,Clothing,shelter etc).

Matt

[wolfontherun]

Originally Posted by Glittermoondust

I don't know how everyone always gets great seats by waiting until the last minute...... I have looked and looked for just about every FM or Stevie concert in the Detroit area and it just never happens for me..... I usually just buy mine when I can...... now I have heard of people getting good seats at the box office right before a show but I'm not that big of a gambler Are these people just buying 1 ticket and that's it?? Maybe that is the difference????

I always buy 2 at a time. When i have waited to get good seats I have had the luxury of checking every 10 minutes while at work on ticketmasters website.

[WelshWitchPMD]

Originally Posted by Regina

I think, most of us "oldies" on the board have spent thousands of dollars on FM. I know I have. All my debt is FM-related (and that's not an exaggeration). And, I personally have done it--mostly, without complaint.
But, that money paid for seeing FM, Stevie and/or Lindsey probably about 20 times (I never counted). Not for one concert.

And they were giving us new material and times were not as tough.
It's very difficult to not feel slighted by FM themselves when ticket prices are high to start out with and then they do things like the packages and ticketmaster's "premium tickets" (and I have no idea if this is a ticketmaster racket or something sanctioned by FM)--and making fans who really would like to see them as close as possible shell out MORE money than those casual fans who will pass by a venue and say, "oh, Fleetwood Mac. Yeah, I liked them back in the day. Let me get a ticket" and don't give a rat's behind where they sit.

I work. I'm single and don't have kids. But I can't shell out these huge amounts of money and don't think I would if I could. If you can, that's great. HOWEVER, it irritates me that the people with the packages are being sold a mystery prize of some sort. WHY can't they tell you--right now--that you have front row center seats? Or second row? For that money, those tickets should be in their hands and they should guarantee you an exact place in that venue without you having to wait until the day of the show. Ticket brokers are selling front row tickets for these shows. Why do they know the exact location of the tickets they are selling, and FM--who is selling them for, in some cases, even MORE than the brokers, not telling you until the day of the show? It's just not right.

They did the whole FM fanclub thing where you could buy tickets, during the SYW tour. If I'm not mistaken (I just don't remember this exactly anymore), they weren't that much more than the value of the ticket. And they were also mystery tickets until a week (or maybe a few days?) before the concert. And then they emailed you your seat numbers. But, you had an option to cancel. I don't even know if this All Access thing gives you that option. And, how many people can afford to dump it at that late date, if they really have their hearts set on it?

I don't know. It really doesn't affect me because I'm not doing it, but I get annoyed at the concept. You want to believe in the integrity of the people you admire most, and this sort of chips away at all of that.

And, FWIW, Lindsey is sort of excluded in this. Is he in it for the money? Yes. But, he's sort of stated that he is. But, he gave us two wonderful, inventive, creative tours and didn't rob us blind. If anything, he robbed himself (money-wise). That counts for a lot in my book. And, the two times I've spent a few minutes with him off-stage--he was beyond nice. (And didn't reach for my pocketbook for some extra dough!)

EXACTLY! At least for Motley Crue (not that I bought any) but for the Mohegan Sun show you can get a single premium ticket for about $400.00 but you know exactly where it is located at that moment on Ticketmaster. Why couldn't Fleetwood Mac do something like that? At least you KNOW where you will be sitting and you have the option NOT to purchase it and you can also purchase ONE ticket.
Fleetwood Mac have never been a band that does things the right way. EVER!

[trackaghost]

Originally Posted by kennation

That site has tickets front row for like $500-$1000... That is amazing! Great seats still available there for, what I consider, a reasonable price.

In what world is that a reasonable price? Honestly, I would like to know.

Originally Posted by kennation

Maybe your idea of reasonable is different from mine? As a true fan, myself, I will pay anything. To be honest, I have waited my fair share of years to be able to do this. Now I can so... I don't feel bad about it. It's a shame that you had to say, "with attitudes like that..." What was that about? Seriously?

So the difference between being a true fan and just a fan is being able to afford overpriced tickets? So the woman struggling to survive every day on minimum wage with three kids, who has loved the band for the last 30 years and their music has meant a lot to her, is less of a fan because she can't afford a $600 package to meet Mick?

I'd also be interested to know just how many years you've waited because you can't be that much of a "true fan" if you've waited so long to see them. Maybe a true fan goes to see them even if they have the worst seats in the arena and have no chance in hell of meeting Mick or anyone else in the band.

Originally Posted by kennation

Carrie,
I wasn't the first person to say, "TRUE FANS/DEVOTED FANS..." It was a comment made to me that I rebuddled about how I feel about ME being a TRUE/DEVOTED fan... It had nothing to do with you or anyone else. I do stand by my saying, "true fans are glad to hear from their band in any way..." I stand by that. I always will sorry if that offends you, but there it is...

"true fans are glad to hear from their band in any way..." That's ridiculous. I can only assume you've only been a fan for a short while from that statement because if the band released a terrible record you'd be disappointed, of course you would.

Originally Posted by kennation

Honestly, when I am at a concert and I hear people say around me, "they are artistically void... they are all about their money... these tickets were overpriced..." It makes me want to scream. It brings me down. When I was new to Stevie I had people who said things like that behind me and it almost ruined my experience. I just think to myself, "WHY ARE YOU HERE? Stay the frap home!" LOL

Wow, you must be thin-skinned if that almost ruined a good concert for you.

[trackaghost]

Originally Posted by Regina

I think, most of us "oldies" on the board have spent thousands of dollars on FM. I know I have. All my debt is FM-related (and that's not an exaggeration). And, I personally have done it--mostly, without complaint.
But, that money paid for seeing FM, Stevie and/or Lindsey probably about 20 times (I never counted). Not for one concert.

And they were giving us new material and times were not as tough.
It's very difficult to not feel slighted by FM themselves when ticket prices are high to start out with and then they do things like the packages and ticketmaster's "premium tickets" (and I have no idea if this is a ticketmaster racket or something sanctioned by FM)--and making fans who really would like to see them as close as possible shell out MORE money than those casual fans who will pass by a venue and say, "oh, Fleetwood Mac. Yeah, I liked them back in the day. Let me get a ticket" and don't give a rat's behind where they sit.

I work. I'm single and don't have kids. But I can't shell out these huge amounts of money and don't think I would if I could. If you can, that's great. HOWEVER, it irritates me that the people with the packages are being sold a mystery prize of some sort. WHY can't they tell you--right now--that you have front row center seats? Or second row? For that money, those tickets should be in their hands and they should guarantee you an exact place in that venue without you having to wait until the day of the show. Ticket brokers are selling front row tickets for these shows. Why do they know the exact location of the tickets they are selling, and FM--who is selling them for, in some cases, even MORE than the brokers, not telling you until the day of the show? It's just not right.

They did the whole FM fanclub thing where you could buy tickets, during the SYW tour. If I'm not mistaken (I just don't remember this exactly anymore), they weren't that much more than the value of the ticket. And they were also mystery tickets until a week (or maybe a few days?) before the concert. And then they emailed you your seat numbers. But, you had an option to cancel. I don't even know if this All Access thing gives you that option. And, how many people can afford to dump it at that late date, if they really have their hearts set on it?

I don't know. It really doesn't affect me because I'm not doing it, but I get annoyed at the concept. You want to believe in the integrity of the people you admire most, and this sort of chips away at all of that.

And, FWIW, Lindsey is sort of excluded in this. Is he in it for the money? Yes. But, he's sort of stated that he is. But, he gave us two wonderful, inventive, creative tours and didn't rob us blind. If anything, he robbed himself (money-wise). That counts for a lot in my book. And, the two times I've spent a few minutes with him off-stage--he was beyond nice. (And didn't reach for my pocketbook for some extra dough!)

Great post. I agree completely.

[Tusk!]

Originally Posted by Regina

I think, most of us "oldies" on the board have spent thousands of dollars on FM. I know I have. All my debt is FM-related (and that's not an exaggeration). And, I personally have done it--mostly, without complaint.
But, that money paid for seeing FM, Stevie and/or Lindsey probably about 20 times (I never counted). Not for one concert.

And they were giving us new material and times were not as tough.
It's very difficult to not feel slighted by FM themselves when ticket prices are high to start out with and then they do things like the packages and ticketmaster's "premium tickets" (and I have no idea if this is a ticketmaster racket or something sanctioned by FM)--and making fans who really would like to see them as close as possible shell out MORE money than those casual fans who will pass by a venue and say, "oh, Fleetwood Mac. Yeah, I liked them back in the day. Let me get a ticket" and don't give a rat's behind where they sit.

I work. I'm single and don't have kids. But I can't shell out these huge amounts of money and don't think I would if I could. If you can, that's great. HOWEVER, it irritates me that the people with the packages are being sold a mystery prize of some sort. WHY can't they tell you--right now--that you have front row center seats? Or second row? For that money, those tickets should be in their hands and they should guarantee you an exact place in that venue without you having to wait until the day of the show. Ticket brokers are selling front row tickets for these shows. Why do they know the exact location of the tickets they are selling, and FM--who is selling them for, in some cases, even MORE than the brokers, not telling you until the day of the show? It's just not right.



And, FWIW, Lindsey is sort of excluded in this. Is he in it for the money? Yes. But, he's sort of stated that he is. But, he gave us two wonderful, inventive, creative tours and didn't rob us blind. If anything, he robbed himself (money-wise). That counts for a lot in my book. And, the two times I've spent a few minutes with him off-stage--he was beyond nice. (And didn't reach for my pocketbook for some extra dough!)

Very well said Regina. I have been an experienced fan since 1975 and seen FM on every tour since then(even the Time tour). I guess we are all a little disappointed that this tour seems to be a money grab to beef up their retirement funds. I'm planning on attending 2-3 shows, but I will be very selective on seat selections and have no intention of sitting in the nosebleed sections or paying a house payment for premium seats. I really hate the way Ticketmaster runs these ticket sales and long for a better system. I'm hopeful the tour will still be going when it reaches Phoenix, but I have a feeling the group reunion will be a little rocky by the end of May.

[kennation]

Originally Posted by trackaghost

In what world is that a reasonable price? Honestly, I would like to know.



So the difference between being a true fan and just a fan is being able to afford overpriced tickets? So the woman struggling to survive every day on minimum wage with three kids, who has loved the band for the last 30 years and their music has meant a lot to her, is less of a fan because she can't afford a $600 package to meet Mick?

I'd also be interested to know just how many years you've waited because you can't be that much of a "true fan" if you've waited so long to see them. Maybe a true fan goes to see them even if they have the worst seats in the arena and have no chance in hell of meeting Mick or anyone else in the band.




"true fans are glad to hear from their band in any way..." That's ridiculous. I can only assume you've only been a fan for a short while from that statement because if the band released a terrible record you'd be disappointed, of course you would.



Wow, you must be thin-skinned if that almost ruined a good concert for you.

Let it die... You don't know me. Get off it, please. Just let it die.

[sparky]

I don't think there is any grand conspiracy at work here. It is called a ticket rollout. Promoters want a full house. And even if it isn't a full house they want the illusion of one. So, a certain amount of tickets are released in each section slowly. That way, the house fills in. Not everyone can afford the top tier prices, so at different times, different seats are made available.

Is ticketmaster a gouging, nasty monopoly? Absolutely. Every monopoly is.

However, they are not in charge of the ticket prices. The ticket prices and based and predicated on one thing and one thing only - the guarantee the band's management can demand in the contract. That, divided by house capacity, with factors of tier pricing, venue overhead, and perceived sales is what determines the ticket price. Madonna's ticket prices are simply a reflection of how much she wants a night. I do not know her guarantee, but I am certain it is over a million.

It is a pretty well known fact that the reason the SYW tour went on so long is that the first leg had some terrible sales in certain cities and the tour was extended to secondary markets and fertile city repeats as an act of good
will on the part of band management towards promoters who lost their shirts in cities with bad sales. Also, on the second leg the band lowered their guarantee so the promoters could make their money back. I don't know the actual numbers, but my sources have said the second leg saw the decrease their guarantee by about 33%. This was a business decision, and a wise one at that.

As far as the prices go, of course they are ridiculous. There is no way on God's green earth that a concert of the type this band puts on should cost 150-200 bucks. It isn't as if the show is a visual feast on the scale that a Madonna or Cher show is. There are not dancers, changing scenery, huge production numbers, or any of the trappings that make a concert seem like an evening seeing Cirque Du Soleil. That is actually worth 200 bucks. There
are dozens of performers, utter sensory overload, and a profusion of talent involved in the sets, costumes, lighting and original music. It is truly a spectacle.

Make no mistake folks. The prices are what they are because of how much
the band wants to be paid to go onstage. I have my minimum price to leave the house. Everyone does.

If you are lucky, people pay it.

If people won't, and you get desperate enough, you lower your price.

Anyone who pays the high prices is participating in the system and has no
reason to complain.

On one level, I understand those who will literally go into debt to see the band. As a man who obsessively followed the band for three decades, I have spent an easy 20 grand since the late 70's on this group of people.
Probably more with inflation adjustment.

In fact, the first tour I was able to see many times over was Street Angel.
I was finally in a region where I could go to lots of shows, had plenty of disposable income, and wanted to take advantage of it. Was Stevie far past her peak? Without a doubt. I didn't care. I finally had my chance and I maximized it till the end of tour when I was taking piss breaks during Rhiannon, Destiny and GDW.

It was fun.

Would I do it now? Not on your life. The reasons for that are many.
And they are obvious.

I don't begrudge anyone the opportunity to go into debt or spend every
last cent of their extra income to go see these musicians. Go ahead and line their pockets if you want to. Depending on the person, the emotional payoff can be worth it.

There were plenty of people 15 years ago who scoffed at my insistence on seeing
Stevie. They laughed and said her voice was shot, she was fat, and she was
not only uncool but utterly over.



Maybe she was.

The prime years were 75-80 and there is no disputing it.

But I got what I could get when I could get it. And I had my fill.

It was past her peak, and the peak of the band, but it was damn sure my peak.

So like those people who dismissed me and said they couldn't be bothered to go in 91, or 94 or 97 or 98, cause they saw the legendary shows in the 70's, I now say I don't want to see the shadow of the greatness anymore either.

I don't want to hear the shifted keys, the changed melodies due to aging voices, the go through the motions Stevie performances that are more often than not just pantomime since her sobriety.

But for those who are willing to shell out those indecent amounts of money,
I say get while the getting is good and the band is still alive.

But don't bitch about the price.

The price is what the band asks for.

I won't pay it anymore. I got them when the goods were fresher and cheaper
and more relevant. And frankly, it was when they meant more than me. It was a fluke of timing. I got lucky.

Life is all about timing and money.

So take what you can get, and pay what you can pay.

[shebop]

Well said....

[LukeA]

Originally Posted by sparky

It is a pretty well known fact that the reason the SYW tour went on so long is that the first leg had some terrible sales in certain cities and the tour was extended to secondary markets and fertile city repeats as an act of good
will on the part of band management towards promoters who lost their shirts in cities with bad sales. Also, on the second leg the band lowered their guarantee so the promoters could make their money back. I don't know the actual numbers, but my sources have said the second leg saw the decrease their guarantee by about 33%. This was a business decision, and a wise one at that.

Not really. With a few isolated exceptions, the first leg (Columbus thru Portland or so) was 100% AEG/Concerts West (the exceptions being a couple dates where they co-pro'd with Clear Channel). Conversely, the '04 tour was mostly Clear Channel sheds. The big disasters on the SYW tour (Grand Forks, and the canceled Memphis show) were ineligible for make-goods or give-backs to their respective promoters, because said disasters literally bankrupted them. AEG/Concerts West came away pretty well, after all was said and done.

The '04 tour was basically the only way they could make second trips to most major markets, and attempt third, or in a few cases, FOURTH trips to a market. Clear Channel offered the only viable model for them to play venues with a palatable (read: moderately lucrative) seating capacity/gross potential. While the band got no g'tee upfront, they did receive 90-95% of the gate after expenses (Clear Channel makes most of their revenue off shed shows by selling lucrative sponsorships to their summer concert season). When one date didn't work out (ex. Tinley Park, their fourth Chicago date in less than a year), the band & CCE made the joint decision to switch it out for another (Scranton). If this sounds familiar, they just did the same thing on the Unleashed tour, putting the Albany date out of its misery and replacing it with a 2nd date in Toronto.

[WildHeart69]

Originally Posted by David

My peeps & I got front row center seats at Fleetwood's opening night at Arrowhead Pond in 2003. We called the morning of the show. Does that sort of thing still happen?

Paula got front row center for the Stevie/Chris Isaak show in Camden, NJ the day of the show... that was like 2007 I think...

[LukeA]

Originally Posted by WildHeart69

Paula got front row center for the Stevie/Chris Isaak show in Camden, NJ the day of the show... that was like 2007 I think...

They used to drop front row tickets all the time on the SYW tour. I got front row center tickets in the fan club presale for Moline, and a couple days before the show, I picked up a single in the front row (adjoining our seats, actually) so a friend could go with us.

This was not an isolated incident. I used to see 1st/2nd row tickets pop up all the time a few days prior to the show. The promoter releases ticket holds for either the band, the record label, the venue, or their own promoter holds leading up to the day of the show- its not some nefarious scheme or conspiracy theory, no matter how much some of you would like it to be.