The Stevie of old...

[darklinensuit]

Originally posted by Johnny Stew
I knew that was a dangerous statement to make!
I tried to word it as carefully as possible, but I figured someone might call me on it anyway.

I wholeheartedly agree that Stevie's has some unresolved feelings as far as her love life is concerned... unrequited romances, and relationships that died a painful death. She also has an optimism that love *can* work, however difficult it may be to find. Which is where the subject matter of her songs is born.

But what I was trying to say in my statement, is that i don't think Stevie has any unresolved issues as far as proving herself to anyone. I don't think she has a need anymore to say, "Look at me! Look what I can do!"
She seemed to have those issues in the '80s... when she was practically determined to ruin her health in order to prove that she rocked just as hard as the guys.
But I don't think she has that angst anymore. She seems comfortable in her role now, and that was definitely hard won. I feel she has every right to enjoy her "niche" in rock music's pantheon.
I don't see that as resting on one's laurels, or taking the safe approach... I see that as enjoying what your life has given you, and the fact that you're still alive to do what you love to do best.

I know what you're saying, and I want it to be true, but I'm still skeptical. I think Stevie saw everything fall out of her hands again in 1994, and she's determined to avoid going back to that miserable place. She wants to prove herself still, just maybe in a different way. She's determined to be a role model, the Rock Stateswoman & Mentor to new artists, and she never wants to be overwhelmingly panned by the critics again (not that anybody would, of course). I think she's at the point in her life where age & wisdom convince her she can't please everybody, but she is still determined to keep the ground she's staked in the last few years. Again, JMHO.

- Jake

[mchakram]

Okay, I have only posted once or twice on here before, and usually I just enjoy reading everyone else's opinions, but I feel like I gotta speak up here too and spread the love for Stevie.
To put my views in context, I just finished my freshman year of college--I have been a fan of Stevie and FM since my sophomore year of high school. Coming along at the time I did (too late for the Dance...), I got exposed to "Old Stevie" and "New Stevie" at the same time--and I have found that I love both equally. And although I haven't been a fan nearly as long as many here, I think I am about as familiar with her work as most of the hardcore enthusiasts here--from BN to now, with all the solo and studio and demos between (although I must admit I still have yet to listen to a LB solo album--once I get some money, I am off to buy one).
Now, I definitely love crazy coked-out gibberish-screaming mike-thrashing Stevie, for her passion and her anger and her mysticism. The Rosebud video gives me chills every time. When I am in the throes of painful young adult love, I turn on Outside the Rain or Gold Dust Woman and scream my head off with her. But now I think we all see that she is indeed calmer and older (and I think bolder too). There is something very healing in her newer writing. And yeah, every once in a while I wince at a clunky lyric ("it hurts my self esteem, it hurts my everything" comes to mind--but her voice is so exquisite on it that I can get past it). And I am actually a fan of "Silver Girl"--I can't read the lyrics seriously, but somehow the song does it for me.
I think that if we look closely at her songs then and now, we do see growth and maturation without losing the passion. Fall From Grace and Everybody Finds Out are, I think, as passionate and intense as anything from the 70s or 80s. And Say You Will is an excellent example of growth and change (the closest song I can think of sound-wise is Angel, but it is still very different), with Stevie feeling the intensity of the romance without becoming at all over-dramatic or self-indulgent. As far as I can see, she is still the passionate rock priestess from before, just older and stronger and calmer.
As for Illume, I love it. I don't understand what deeper truth or statement she should be trying to make--she is simply tapping into the incredibly powerful feeling of the experience. Illume is really the only 9/11 song that doesn't grate on me as cliche or exploitative or overly-political. Yeah, she repeats some lyrics, but it creates that hypnotic feeling of confusion and numbness that the event created. And the passion and feeling in her voice is, in my opinion, possibly the most powerful I have ever heard it in the studio. (It strikes me that she may have good reason for not doing it live--my voice and throat are worn out after I just sing it in the car!)
Now, as for live performances, I guess I can't offer as much of an opinion. I caught the TISL tour, and I could feel the energy from the lawn of the venue--so if people feel like she is stronger on this tour, I can't wait. Maybe I'm just lucky that I wasn't alive to be at the performances from decades past. But I know I am lucky to get to see the ones now.
Whew, this has been long--sorry if it was repetitive or pointless. I guess all I really want to say is:
She's still alive and rocking, and that's pretty damn cool.

~Matt

[cliffdweller]

As for Christine opting out, what would be the point of her working on the record and not touring to support the material? That wouldn't make any sense. Sure, I love Christine and the first time I heard SYW I was hearing little holes in songs that could have used her harmony and would have been the better for it. I also think that SYW is in dire need of some Chris songs to even out the feel of the album and complete the brilliant Mac chemistry. For instance, To Steal Your Heart Away is my favorite song on the album, mainly because it captures the classic Mac three part harmony and sunny California pop, and of course this is due in large part to Christine McVie's back up vocal.

However, she decided that her personal life is more important than being a slave to the road and who can blame her really? I have a sneaking suspicion though that she might turn up when they tour the U.K. Just a speculation, I hope it happens though.

[Janet]

Johnny Stew, you are totally right.

I don't think Stevie needs to prove herself anymore.

I think she knows where she stands, and she doesn't need to jump out, wear tiny outfits and scream her head off. She could just stand there and everyone would scream...so she knows that and just gives enough so she isn't wearing herself out.

We must remember, this is a long tour, she needs to preserve her strength.

Im 25 and I know after 20 shows even, I'd be dead.

[CarneVaca]

Originally posted by mchakram
As for Illume, I love it. I don't understand what deeper truth or statement she should be trying to make--she is simply tapping into the incredibly powerful feeling of the experience. Illume is really the only 9/11 song that doesn't grate on me as cliche or exploitative or overly-political. Yeah, she repeats some lyrics, but it creates that hypnotic feeling of confusion and numbness that the event created.

Matt, welcome to the board. Since I brought up Illume, let me explain. I guess I should have picked on Silver Girl, which is beyond stupid, but oh well.

Why do I think Illume misses the mark? I am in Manhattan everyday. I saw the towers fall, and not on TV. I was fortunate not to have to dodge the debris that day, but I came in contact with a lot of people who did. I remember people breaking down on the streets, in the train, talking about nothing else... This went on for weeks. The sheer terror of that day will stay with me forever, as I know it will with everybody else who experienced it.

Having said that, when I first heard Illume I simply had to scratch my head and say, Just what the hell is she talking about? She's talking about Point Dume. I understand the reference to the fire,if that's what she was doing, but what does it have to do with 18 crazed lunatics driving planes into buildings? Then the song gets weirder: coastal cities, ocean blending into cities. Jade? Diamonds?

Sorry, it doesn't ring true to me. I can see this was her experience that day, but to release a song that is so self-indulgent about a day that affected so many has rubbed me the wrong way. This is why I brought up Springsteen. In his album The Rising, he looked at the event and the aftermath from as many angles as he could, and rather than fill the songs with cliches, he made observations that really struck at the core. I remember when the album came out how many people who were directly affected by the event thanked Bruce for his wonderful work. To his work, I could relate. If Stevie hadn't made 9/11 the subtitle of her song, we really wouldn't even know what the hell she's talking about.

That Stevie Nicks was burning candles and incense that day means nothing to me. That she was "just so scared" I can understand, but why not try some empathy in writing the song rather than just indulging in your own fears? Had she written about the eerie silence broken only by sirens, the under-siege feel of the day with fighter jets overhead, the agony of being unable to contact your loved ones, the utter sense of helplessness in wanting to help people who were suffering, the trance-like look of disbelief in people's eyes, the shocking heartbreak of it all... then I would feel differently.

I can't even relate to the "I'm alone now" line. There was a sense of community in the aftermath of 9/11 that was absolutely antithetical to the way of life in New York. We were all in this together.

Having said that, I like the feel of the song. The droning quality of if is quite appropriate, but the lyrics are a letdown.



Illume says the candle that I burn
A reflection in the window
All the way to Point Dume
Illume-like it dances
I am a cliff dweller
From the old school

I like the coastal cities
I like the lights
I like the way the ocean blends
Into the city at night
It's like living on a working river
This coastline is glittering
Like a diamond snake
In a black sky

I am alone now
With my thoughts
Oh how we could make it
Of how we could get out
What we've been through
All of the trauma
The smell of Nag Champa
Shadow of a stranger

I will not take you for granted
I wouldn't trade it for jade
Or for diamonds
Not for a minute
Not for anything
I need you to be there
Just remember when I am haunted
That I was just scared

I am alone now...

What I saw on this journey
I saw history go down
I cannot pretend
That the heartache falls away
It's just like a river
Ooh, it's never ending
I cannot pretend
That the heartache falls away

Because I
It's just like a river
It's never ending
It's just like a river
It's never ending

I am alone now...
What I saw on this journey...
I am alone now....
What I saw on this journey...

[SmthngOfADreamr]

I live and work in Manhattan as well and for me the song touches home, but that very well could be because I am extremely familiar with Stevie's writing style.

Illume is not about the terror of that day. To question what it has to do with lunitics crashing planes into buildings misses the point. The song is about emotions. It is a retrospect of all the feelings that were experienced on that day. That why she's "alone now with her thoughts." Now being a time during which she is reflecting on what happened on that day, not on 9/11 itself. We all know that Stevie writes from her journal, so I think it's only natural for her to write about her experiences.

Everyone had a personal experience on that day. Why do you think people were crying on the train? What do you think people were talking about for weeks after? THEIR PERSONAL EXPERIENCES and they connected with the whole of humanity. Kind of like "how WE could make it, how WE could get out..."

Just to clear a few things up: I believe Point Dume is an actual geographical location near where she lives in California. What that has to do with 9/11, I'm not sure, but I do recall this from an interview.

I don't see what's so strange about making a reference to costal cities either, consdering New York is one. And I also enjoy the imagery of the ocean blending into the city. Go to the Hudson or East River bank, or the "ocean" (which at that point is more of a bay) in lower Manhattan. They way the reflections of the city and water blend is beautiful on a clear night.
I'm not going to sit her and justify all the lyrics, because an interpretation is a personal thing. If you don't like the song I respect that , but remember that one man's trash is another man's treasure.

[CarneVaca]

Dreamer, you pretty much validated what I said. You are OK with her approach to the song, but I find it self-indulgent. In thinking back I remember the uncertainty of how I would get out of Manhattan and get home, and just reminding myself that even if I had to sleep on the curb and get home the next day, I'd still be one of the lucky ones. And the way the song comes across is, "I'm so afraid, what's gonna happen to me?" and doesn't seem to convey empathy for those who were suffering. Maybe it's supposed to, but I don't see it.

As for the Point Dume reference, there is a reserve in California that's gone up in flames once or twice recently. I believe that may be what she was getting at.

As for the coastal city reference, I get the New York reference. But, and I'm sure you disagree, as someone who's seen New York from many angles, including from the water and from the air, it does not blend into the ocean, not even figuratively. Of that I am sure. But then again, that is just a minor point.

If you find comfort in this song, that's great. For me, it's just fallen kind of flat.

[strandinthewind]

I think in Illume, she refers to her actions once the TISL tour was over and she returned to her LA house. She lit a candle called Illume, burned some incense, and stared out of the window to Point Dume to begin the reflection. Then once she was alone with her thoughts and smelled the incense, she began to think:

I am alone now
With my thoughts
Oh how we could make it
Of how we could get out
What we've been through
All of the trauma
The smell of Nag Champa
Shadow of a stranger

So, I think the song is her reflection a few months later on what went down that day, what she lost personally, her efforts to help other people by loaning her tour bus and other things I have heard rumored but cannot confirm, and her commitment and contribution to society to take people away from it all for two hours in concert when what she wanted to do was go home and hide from the terror that scared her. I also think that while it is very obscure, the line "smell of nag champra" is chilling to me in that she had to burn it while in NYC on 9/11 to help alleviate the "acrid" smell of the burning buildings and, God help their souls, the associated smell of the over 3,000 people that were also burned (tears!). Once I understood that line, I cannot escape that image. Same goes for "sahdow of a stranger." That, in my opinion, is what makes her brilliant in her own way. Also, her songs will never be consistently literal because as LB has said, she romanticizes her romanticism

Also, I think she refers to the LA coastline, not NYC, when she is staring out of her LA home window and seeing the LA coastline.

[cliffdweller]

CarneVaca,
Just because Stevie didn't write a song about 9/11 that echoes a community sense in the same vein as Bruce Springsteen or whoever else doesn't mean that her feelings were not authentic or worthy of being expressed. We can't fault someone for expressing themselves in their own way, we all got through 9/11 the best way(s) we could. The lyric "...of how WE could make it, how WE could get out, what WE'VE been through"...etc. gives me the impression that Stevie is thinking about how the attacks affected the whole of humanity not just herself. Anyway, Stevie has always been an introspective songwriter, Illume should not surprise you with its degree of personal intimacy, she's a loner, a "cliffdweller from the old school".

[joe68]

Actually, I love the song: the feel, the intenstity and the lyrics as well. I think this song is very different from anything she has written before.

Having said that, the only thing I wonder about is: what the heck is a "working river" and where does one go to "live" on it...?

[strandinthewind]

Having lived in New Orleans, I can tell you my experience with a working river means to me the lights of the moving ships and moving equipment on the docks as well as the lights of the city and docks themselves creates the illusion of a moving creature. I have seen this effect in coastal cities although there are no large ships there. So, I guess she was analogizing the lights in her coastal community in LA to what I saw in New Orleans. That is my take anyway.

[Johnny Stew]

Yes, I think some fans are getting a bit tripped up over the "chain of events" in "Illume."
Stevie clearly (to me, at least) sets the mood of reflection at the beginning of the song.
She's no longer in New York... she's home, she's safe, and she's thinking back to the terror of that day.

She's not pretending to know what the firefighters went through... she's not pretending to know what the families of those missing or dead went through... she's telling us how SHE felt that day.
Echoing feelings a lot of us had... those of us who weren't at Ground Zero, but were certainly affected by the events of that day.

I think "Illume" doesn't suffer the "hokiness" or forced sincerity of so many other 9/11 tribute songs, because Stevie offered a frank confessional of the fear and heartbreak felt by so many of us who witnessed the terrible events of that day, whether first-hand or on television.

So I don't find it self-indulgent or self-centered in the least.
Anyway, aren't the best poets those who are self-aware? Those who can allow the reader or listener into their lives and their experiences?

But, again, folks who don't care for Stevie and/or her writing style, will find things to nitpick about the song... that's just the nature of the beast, and it's to be expected. Not every one can appreciate every thing.

[belladonnamoon]

Originally posted by darklinensuit

Less risk, more respect.

That's not a payoff to those of us here who have loved her over the years, who have loved her more creative endeavors, so it's frustrating for us.
Still, just the sound of her voice is a kind of payoff for me still.
- Jake

I couldn't agree more.
Just having her around...writing, recording PERFORMING AT ALL...is enough for me.
I'm thankful.

~Renae

[dontlookdown]

sure - some of my best memories of live shows were Fleetwood Mac concerts from 1977 through 1983. They were truly electric and LOUD - and Stevie was probably the most exciting woman in rock and roll to watch on stage since Janis Joplin. She was firey and often unpredictable. She gave me the chills and was capable of instantly putting 20000 people on the edge of their seats. Rhiannon was often jaw-dropping. Angel was glorious and gave me instant perma-smile. But then there was also versions of Landslide that sucked because she couldn't sing. There were scary falls and trips over mic chords and fits of tears when there shouldn't have been.

i miss the energized performances. i don't miss the alcohol and the cocaine-fueled shows. the fact that stevie is still getting up on stage and sharing her unique gorgeous voice is truly a miracle. let's take her for who she is today and celebrate the fact that she sobered up and started getting vocal training. now if we could only get mick to lose the 80's drum vest - i think we could have a brilliant band again.

[CarneVaca]

I have to admit, as much as I hate to, that I listened to Illume with a new ey... er, ear yesterday after reading comments from Johnny Stew and some others. It makes a little more sense now. It still strikes me as indulgent, as if she should have tried a little harder to take herself out of it. But, hey, that's just me. Those of you who "get" it are the lucky ones because you don't feel tempted to skip the song when it comes up.

Of course, what bothers me more is the high-pitched cymbal sound that forces me to mess with the treble button. This is a production thing, and not Stevie's fault. I find some production uneveness throughout the record. Anyone else notice this?