new Dashut blog - Truth & Consequences (My Times with FM)

[bombaysaffires]

It seems like to some extent Lindsey thrives on the challenge of not seeing things the same way as others in the band. I think that kind of thing fuels his creativity even more. If everything went perfectly smoothly in the studio and no one had a different opinion to his we might not get as good a result.

Plus it seems like that's just part of his personality to some extent-- he likes being the provocateur, likes being a little contrary. He's not it would seem inherently a get-along, peace-maker sort of person. He's not a follower, he's a leader and seems stimulated by a certain amount of friction. Of course, when the friction becomes overwhelming, not so much fun.

[secret love]

Originally Posted by bombaysaffires

It seems like to some extent Lindsey thrives on the challenge of not seeing things the same way as others in the band. I think that kind of thing fuels his creativity even more. If everything went perfectly smoothly in the studio and no one had a different opinion to his we might not get as good a result.

Plus it seems like that's just part of his personality to some extent-- he likes being the provocateur, likes being a little contrary. He's not it would seem inherently a get-along, peace-maker sort of person. He's not a follower, he's a leader and seems stimulated by a certain amount of friction. Of course, when the friction becomes overwhelming, not so much fun.

He wrote two songs about Stephanie Nicks' lack of willingness to participate in recording a new album - Sad Angel especially and also to some extent, Miss Fantasy. She does remember him but she doesn't remember how much people other than Lindsey, that is, fans - want a new album!

[PenguinHead]

I don't believe he challenges people just for the sake of a challenge. He has specific ideas and sensibilities. Lindsey likes to have control and work alone. Fleetwood Mac has the benefit of his musical talent/production skills, and his man-alone work ethic has served him well in his solo career. It must be so much easier to work alone, where the only challenges are his own.

[louielouie2000]

Originally Posted by PenguinHead

I don't believe he challenges people just for the sake of a challenge. He has specific ideas and sensibilities. Lindsey likes to have control and work alone. Fleetwood Mac has the benefit of his musical talent/production skills, and his man-alone work ethic has served him well in his solo career. It must be so much easier to work alone, where the only challenges are his own.

I'm not so sure about that. The central theme of the Destiny Rules documentary is Lindsey's drive to push the band into an edgier sound, a larger format, and to redefine themselves without Christine. He even admits that he's a troublemaker. He methodically pushes people past the point where he wants to end up, anticipating they will backtrack to where he actually wants things to be. I'm not saying Lindsey does any of these things malevolently, quite the opposite. I think he just wants to expand the comfort zones and minds of both the band and it's followers. I think that's why during Say You Will he insisted on the double album, for Stevie to bring in freshly written material, and for Stevie to give other mixers a chance, etc.

Regarding Lindsey preferring to be in charge and work on his own, I do think that was true for a long time. However, I don't think that's true anymore. The past few years Lindsey has spoken of not wanting that responsibility of being a producer for Fleetwood Mac anymore, and of wanting to bring in various producers to see what they could do with Fleetwood Mac's sound.

Back to the topic of Richard's blog... I find it interesting how people are villainizing Ken, Richard, Lindsey, Stevie, etc. I'd agree it's safe to say Ken's book exhibited that he had a bit of a chip on his shoulder when it comes to Fleetwood Mac. Honestly, if I were him, I probably would too. It sounds like the band cast him off much the way they have so many of the supporting characters from earlier in their career: Judy Wong, John Courage, Richard Dashut himself, to former members like Bob Welch, and friends like Sara Fleetwood. Richard Dashut brought this up during the early days of his blog about how the band has insulated themselves from him, and how hurtful it was. He's softened his stance now, because it sounds like the band is talking to him about producing their new album.

Which brings up another topic- I have a strong feeling the band doesn't really have any interest in using Richard for their new album. After all, Lindsey's songs are apparently completed products, and Christine's are well on their way. Lindsey has spoken extensively about wanting fresh producers to see what they could do with the band's sound, etc. Instead, I have a feeling that the band is opening communication back up with Richard so they can influence what he shares on his blog. I truly hope I'm wrong, because the band really lost a vital part of what made their sound so magical when they parted ways with Richard and Ken.

[elle]

Originally Posted by louielouie2000

Which brings up another topic- I have a strong feeling the band doesn't really have any interest in using Richard for their new album. After all, Lindsey's songs are apparently completed products, and Christine's are well on their way. Lindsey has spoken extensively about wanting fresh producers to see what they could do with the band's sound, etc. Instead, I have a feeling that the band is opening communication back up with Richard so they can influence what he shares on his blog. I truly hope I'm wrong, because the band really lost a vital part of what made their sound so magical when they parted ways with Richard and Ken.

i think Richard is being deliberately coy about that. but i agree with your feeling that they have no intention of using Richard, at least not for the most part.

i think Christine's songs are probably more complete than Lindsey's. his almost-complete songs i think are probably still waiting for SN's contributions (since 2012!), and are more in the state of It Takes Time than Sad Angel (which was completed in like 1-2 days (?) once SN selected it for release). while i don't think any of the songs they've done so far need much work (days and not months), it seems they didn't complete them because they wanted to give all band members the opportunity to mold and contribute to them, when they first started. songs with Christine, from 2014, might actually be those 8 songs they keep mentioning as practically done.

regarding Mick and Lindsey texting with Richard - if we leave all our cynicism aside, might that be only friendship, without ulterior motives? for one, if Lindsey was pushing his agenda on Richard's blog, Richard wouldn't be nearly as clueless about the state of that new album as he seems to be. and new FM album seems to be #1 item on LB's agenda these days.

[FuzzyPlum]

I cant see FM ever using Richard as a producer again. I'd love it to happen but I just cant see it happening. I don't keep up with his blog but do read back through it every now and again. I don't see a great deal of evidence to suggest the band are really keen to recruit his services. Its sad to say but I think Richard still lives with (misguided) hope of working with them again.

Ken's book didn't always paint a good picture of Lindsey but in the main I think his opinions were balanced and he gave credit where it was due. I wonder how they'd get on now... Lindsey has mellowed so much I can see him getting on well with Ken (though I think those bridges are probably long burned).

Lindsey has mellowed to the point I think he's now very comfortable with the idea of collaborating with other producers provided they are the right person. I think he's shown that with his work with Mitchell Froome (and to a lesser extent his work with Trent Reznor).

[bombaysaffires]

Originally Posted by FuzzyPlum

I cant see FM ever using Richard as a producer again. I'd love it to happen but I just cant see it happening. I don't keep up with his blog but do read back through it every now and again. I don't see a great deal of evidence to suggest the band are really keen to recruit his services. Its sad to say but I think Richard still lives with (misguided) hope of working with them again.

Ken's book didn't always paint a good picture of Lindsey but in the main I think his opinions were balanced and he gave credit where it was due. I wonder how they'd get on now... Lindsey has mellowed so much I can see him getting on well with Ken (though I think those bridges are probably long burned).

Lindsey has mellowed to the point I think he's now very comfortable with the idea of collaborating with other producers provided they are the right person. I think he's shown that with his work with Mitchell Froome (and to a lesser extent his work with Trent Reznor).

Well, Lindsey and Ken were together in the last couple of years when Lindsey won some award… Les Paul innovator?? or some-such award. Ken was one of the presenters. The video is somewhere on youtube, at least that's where I saw it. Awkward is certainly one word for their interaction.

Ken has gone on to have other producing successes. His daughter Colbie Callait for one. Richard honestly never went on to work on anything that was a big hit based on the work he's listed in the blog. He seems to have been *asked* to work on a lot of stuff… Ken asked him to work with him on some big-name stuff (I forget now… some big, big names in the 80s) and he says Jimmy Iovine asked him to join his team with Shelly Yakus (this occurred during the making of Mirage in France when Jimmy had accompanied Stevie). He turned it all down, he says out of loyalty to the band. One suspects out of loyalty and/or risk of pissing off Lindsey. He seems on one hand to have some regrets about missing those opportunities, but then tries to be philosophical about it on the other.

It makes me think this is part of his eventual "breakup" with LB and some of his clearly negative feelings about their relationship. I think he feels partly like he gave up (yes, it was his choice) other professional opportunities out of some sense of loyalty to LB and then LB went and worked with other producers and left him out (Richard wrote he was rather hurt when LB worked with Roy Thomas Baker without him) and then moved on without him totally. Sort of like a woman who gives up her career to support her man and then he leaves her down the line anyway.

[elle]

Originally Posted by bombaysaffires

Well, Lindsey and Ken were together in the last couple of years when Lindsey won some award… Les Paul innovator?? or some-such award. Ken was one of the presenters. The video is somewhere on youtube, at least that's where I saw it. Awkward is certainly one word for their interaction.

yeah Ken kept talking about himself and his daughter, instead, as is customary and would be normal, and as everyone else did, about the guy actually getting the award . and when he gave it to him he kinda kept his distance and then Lindsey finally just said something that looked like "oh come here" and hugged him.

edit / additional thoughts: i rewatched the video. what i wrote above was my first impression when i saw that video back in 2011, before i knew anything about Ken Caillat, or what his relationship with LB was. when i first watched video, i was annoyed that KC seemingly was not focusing on the recipient of the award but instead on self-advertising (or daughter-advertising) and looked kinda distracted... also his speech seemed in such sharp contrast with Elliot Scheiner's. however now after knowing a bit more and seeing and hearing more of Ken Caillat, i think he just has that kind of nervous speaking style, abrasive, at least in public, and that he was actually, albeit awkwardly, trying to get across some really nice points talking about younger generation picking up LB's music, etc. also, again, when i first saw this video, not knowing anything about relationship between Ken and Lindsey, i was under the impression that unlike others, KC was not that eager to embrace and congratulate LB. watching it now, i don't see that anymore. it's interesting, stuff you notice not knowing any history - stuff which may or may not be there.

[elle]

Originally Posted by bombaysaffires

Well, Lindsey and Ken were together in the last couple of years when Lindsey won some award… Les Paul innovator?? or some-such award. Ken was one of the presenters. The video is somewhere on youtube, at least that's where I saw it. Awkward is certainly one word for their interaction.

here's the video -

[Montclare]

Originally Posted by elle

here's the video -

Was this before or after Ken wrote his book?

[FuzzyPlum]

Originally Posted by Montclare

Was this before or after Ken wrote his book?

This award ceremony must have been early 2011. I think Making Rumours came out some time in 2012. I'm guessing this ceremony took place even before Lindsey vetoed band contributions to the book.

That's not the warmest of speeches (in fact Ken's speech was down-right awful) and certainly not the warmest of hugs.

[elle]

Originally Posted by Montclare

Was this before or after Ken wrote his book?

says right there in the video description: January 14th, 2011.

i think after Ken wrote the book, but definitely before it came out in April 2012.

why? you think LB would be less nice if it was after the book came out? LB strikes me as a very zen person these days, so i don't think it would make much difference as far as his behavior goes. and Ken must have been well aware at that time that LB did not want to take part in his book?

[louielouie2000]

Originally Posted by FuzzyPlum

This award ceremony must have been early 2011. I think Making Rumours came out some time in 2012. I'm guessing this ceremony took place even before Lindsey vetoed band contributions to the book.

Books like Ken's take years of research and interviewing. Not just that, there is typically a large lag time in between when books are completed and when the publisher releases them. For large novels or nonfiction works like Ken's book, this can take 6-12 months. During this time the book goes through editing, marketing plans and release dates are decided upon, artwork is chosen, reviews which appear on dust jackets are completed, etc.

My point being, Lindsey most certainly knew about Ken's book long before it was released. Ken would most certainly have approached the band early on during the process, too. So this video was absolutely taken after Lindsey refused to participate in Ken's book, and instructed the other band members to do the same.

[Montclare]

Originally Posted by elle

why? you think LB would be less nice if it was after the book came out? LB strikes me as a very zen person these days, so i don't think it would make much difference as far as his behavior goes. and Ken must have been well aware at that time that LB did not want to take part in his book?

I just think it's interesting to think what might have been going on behind the scenes, with both of them. For example- haven't read Ken's book yet (on my Christmas list), but from what I've heard, he's not that nice to Lindsey. That's why I'm wondering if this event was before or after the band (allegedly on Lindsey's orders) refused to participate. If you wrote a book where you were critical of someone, it must be awkward to encounter them in person afterwards.

[elle]

Originally Posted by louielouie2000

So this video was absolutely taken after Lindsey refused to participate in Ken's book, and instructed the other band members to do the same.

if we believe this part.