Fleetwood mac WILL record new album says stevie

[elle]

Originally Posted by KarmaContestant

I agree with the bolded text, but not the first part of your statement. All of the ingredients were there, but for me, they just didn't pull it off.

To me, Stevie's vocals come off as sterile. When she emotes, it's too careful and measured. She's trying too hard. Girl can't let her hair down. Honestly, it's probably to shut Lindsey up because I get the impression that he so very much enjoys nit picking at her over little details.

Then again, as the Producer, that's sort of his job.

I do believe neither one of them is capable of taking a technical approach to the other's songs without letting emotions get in the way. In the machine of Fleetwood Mac, Lindsey is granted too much influence over the end result of Stevie's songs; both the band and the album would benefit greatly from an outside producer taking the helm completely. Someone up-and-coming but known by none of them personally. If I were the band counselor, that would be my prescription for them.

Lindsey is a pro - I can't deny that - but the magic that he gave to Stevie tracks of yore just isn't there anymore to my ears, and I don't know that it even exists in him to do that anymore. There was an emotional investment going into those songs back then that can't exist now.

Or maybe it can. I don't know, but I don't hear it on any of the tracks recorded for Say You Will.

while i agree that Stevie's sound / droning voice / possible lack of emotion is evident on SYW, i'm not quite sure whether that's a result of too much or too little Lindsey's influence.

just on the bases of watching that Destiny Rules document - he seemed to have been more interested in mending the fences / repairing a relationship and letting her feel his support, unlike during their younger heyday. during Rumours / Tusk / Mirage / Tango years he was not afraid - and probably really enjoyed - telling her what exactly is wrong with her songs and how they should sound. during SYW and more recent times, as you said, he doesn't have all that love/hate emotional investment in her anymore, he's more interested in repairing the relationship, so he is more interested in letting her run with whatever she wants to do with the songs. which results in less of his influence and less of his vision for her songs.

remember in Tusk doc when they are working on Angel and he says "IF we even use your melody" or something like that? i can never imagine him saying something like that these days. and she would never let him, either. so SYW Stevie songs may be a result of too little Lindsey influence and his holding back to tell her exactly what he thinks of her songs.

all speculation, same as yours. but that's my impression from that Destiny Rules doc.

also quite possibly, she is not nearly as open to let her emotions and guards down anymore, like she was when she was young, drunk, and high - especially around someone like Lindsey whose shadow and influence on her success she seemed to have been trying to get out of most of her musical career.

which all leads me to agree with you - while Lindsey and the rest of the band should work with Stevie on her songs (if she has any) and make sure there is a cohesive sound to the album, there should be also another producer brought in, who will not have the same baggage Lindsey has with Stevie, and can say whatever he/she thinks.

[BLY]

I have been buying these records since the beginning. It's age. I was playing some early stuff this past weekend from the 70's. It's just the reality of her voice as as a 60 plus year old. Lindsey or anyone else could only so do much " magic" in the studio. I will still take what is delivered.

[KarmaContestant]

Originally Posted by elle

just on the bases of watching that Destiny Rules document - he seemed to have been more interested in mending the fences / repairing a relationship and letting her feel his support, unlike during their younger heyday. during Rumours / Tusk / Mirage / Tango years he was not afraid - and probably really enjoyed - telling her what exactly is wrong with her songs and how they should sound. during SYW and more recent times, as you said, he doesn't have all that love/hate emotional investment in her anymore, he's more interested in repairing the relationship, so he is more interested in letting her run with whatever she wants to do with the songs. which results in less of his influence and less of his vision for her songs.

also quite possibly, she is not nearly as open to let her emotions and guards down anymore, like she was when she was young, drunk, and high - especially around someone like Lindsey whose shadow and influence on her success she seemed to have been trying to get out of most of her musical career.

Yes and yes - I too felt that Lindsey took a conciliatory tone with Stevie in the Destiny Rules doc, but Stevie - as much as I love her - did not seem particularly interested in being reconciled. She didn't impress me - and I only saw the documentary last year - but it forever changed the way I hear that album.

She stood in stark contrast to the Stevie presented in In Your Dreams. That Stevie was affable and gregarious.

An outside producer would take the pressure off both of them, but honestly, I think they'll let Lindsey do it so they don't have to pay someone.

Maybe they've worked it out by now. Say you Will Was 12 years ago (!!) and they've had a few tours to develop a better working relationship and Christine is back (!!).

[KarmaContestant]

Originally Posted by BLY

I have been buying these records since the beginning. It's age. I was playing some early stuff this past weekend from the 70's. It's just the reality of her voice as as a 60 plus year old. Lindsey or anyone else could only so do much " magic" in the studio. I will still take what is delivered.

I don't mean magic in the sense of making Stevie's songs better than they are, but rather the magic that happens when two people who get along and like each other create something, and they put their best into it, and you can hear it.

[jbrownsjr]

Originally Posted by HomerMcvie

WTWCT is my favorite song on SYW.

Nobody asked you, now go fix your swimming pool or something....

[jbrownsjr]

Originally Posted by nicole21290

WTWCT is the weak link of Lindsey's songs to me, though there's a neat lyric or too. Musically, I find it fairly uninspiring. Silver Girl is definitely the weak link of the album, though. Other than those (and some production choices and vocals I would have re-done), I think it's a pretty solid album, especially considering its length.

Wow! We agree on a few things!! Hell frozeth over.. It's something to build on...

[HomerMcvie]

Originally Posted by jbrownsjr

Nobody asked you, now go fix your swimming pool or something....

It's Indiana. My pool is closed. I can fix lots of things, but not aging voices in my favorite band. I now think Stevie is stronger than Lindsey. On this last tour, the backup singers sang most of his chorus parts, while he just did the responses.

I need one more album, and one more tour. Then they need to go their own way. I mean, I'd go see them forever, but they should bow out gracefully, before they all look like Keef.

[nicole21290]

Originally Posted by elle

while i agree that Stevie's sound / droning voice / possible lack of emotion is evident on SYW, i'm not quite sure whether that's a result of too much or too little Lindsey's influence.

just on the bases of watching that Destiny Rules document - he seemed to have been more interested in mending the fences / repairing a relationship and letting her feel his support, unlike during their younger heyday. during Rumours / Tusk / Mirage / Tango years he was not afraid - and probably really enjoyed - telling her what exactly is wrong with her songs and how they should sound. during SYW and more recent times, as you said, he doesn't have all that love/hate emotional investment in her anymore, he's more interested in repairing the relationship, so he is more interested in letting her run with whatever she wants to do with the songs. which results in less of his influence and less of his vision for her songs.

remember in Tusk doc when they are working on Angel and he says "IF we even use your melody" or something like that? i can never imagine him saying something like that these days. and she would never let him, either. so SYW Stevie songs may be a result of too little Lindsey influence and his holding back to tell her exactly what he thinks of her songs.

all speculation, same as yours. but that's my impression from that Destiny Rules doc.

also quite possibly, she is not nearly as open to let her emotions and guards down anymore, like she was when she was young, drunk, and high - especially around someone like Lindsey whose shadow and influence on her success she seemed to have been trying to get out of most of her musical career.

which all leads me to agree with you - while Lindsey and the rest of the band should work with Stevie on her songs (if she has any) and make sure there is a cohesive sound to the album, there should be also another producer brought in, who will not have the same baggage Lindsey has with Stevie, and can say whatever he/she thinks.

I thought Mick's comments about SYW in his recent autobiography were quite interesting, actually.

"His self-sufficiency proved to be a bigger problem for Stevie than he could have imagined. It made her feel apart and a bit of an outsider when it came to writing. As the only other songwriter in the band, Stevie had thought she and Lindsey were going to have a new and closer creative partnership. But instead, she felt separated from the proceedings, and that was not good. In retrospect, Lindsey has said that he brought in too much of a preconceived vision and if given the chance, he’d not do that again, because it alienated her."

He then went on to speak about what changed after that:

"Lindsey began writing differently than he had in the past; he would bring us and Stevie demos that were spare ideas, recorded simply, allowing plenty of space for all of us to contribute. It also left room for a new story to be created between the two of them, or an old one to be picked up again."

And:

"Lindsey’s vision for Fleetwood Mac without Christine became fully realised in the decade after Say You Will. He and Stevie had been able to resume where Buckingham Nicks left off, and in some ways revive what was subsumed by Fleetwood Mac. Without Chris in the band, their performance style changed, and their vocal harmonies grew closer to how they were in their early days together. I think the Extended Play EP and our 2013 tour showcased just how much the band has grown into that groove, which has been a wonderful connective bridge for Stevie and Lindsey to explore."

[elle]

Originally Posted by nicole21290

I thought Mick's comments about SYW in his recent autobiography were quite interesting, actually.

"His self-sufficiency proved to be a bigger problem for Stevie than he could have imagined. It made her feel apart and a bit of an outsider when it came to writing. As the only other songwriter in the band, Stevie had thought she and Lindsey were going to have a new and closer creative partnership. But instead, she felt separated from the proceedings, and that was not good. In retrospect, Lindsey has said that he brought in too much of a preconceived vision and if given the chance, he’d not do that again, because it alienated her."

He then went on to speak about what changed after that:

"Lindsey began writing differently than he had in the past; he would bring us and Stevie demos that were spare ideas, recorded simply, allowing plenty of space for all of us to contribute. It also left room for a new story to be created between the two of them, or an old one to be picked up again."

thanks, interesting comments speaking again of his searching for some kind of reconciliation with her in different ways - and none of them working as far as she is concerned.

she expected him to work close with her on (his?) songwriting during SYW (even though they all knew he was bringing basically already fully flashed out songs that were supposed to be on his solo album!?), yet she came to the studio months after he and the rest of them were working on the new album and after she gave them her songs to work on them in her absence. when that didn't work out as a songwriting approach, and since SYW, he tried several different ways, even with his own songs and not just hers ("he would bring us and Stevie demos that were spare ideas, recorded simply, allowing plenty of space for all of us to contribute", and she was still reluctant to even say yes to recording every one of those times (and finally, about a year after they started the process, spent 2 days adding her vocals to 2 of his songs and recording an old BN song for EP).

so there is definitely a disconnect there, which have not been mended since SYW, no matter what strategy Lindsey and the band tried, and even with Christine back. maybe now with Stevie finally agreeing to the new album some of that has been resolved?

[elle]

Originally Posted by KarmaContestant

Maybe they've worked it out by now. Say you Will Was 12 years ago (!!) and they've had a few tours to develop a better working relationship and Christine is back (!!).

i hope you are right.

there was definitely still a disconnect before the tour in 2014 and during US legs of the OWTS tour, even with Christine back. but maybe all was finally resolved some time during the last few shows in Australia or NZ and that's why we now finally have a statement from Stevie (interestingly not strongly publicized or amplified?) that there will be a new FM album.

if Stevie contributes some songs, i'm still hoping for an extra producer who can help mediate.

[KenB]

Originally Posted by jbrownsjr

You like What's the World Coming To more than Come or Miranda?

I do, yes. For me, WTWCT is a great, fun song to sing along with -- a catchy, melodic, albeit rather lightweight way to start the album. I enjoy it much more than Miranda or Come.

I don't actually hate Miranda or Come; I just don't find that I return to them often. Come is a very ambitious song -- its complicated arrangement and intense emotion are impressive, but for me it doesn't fit with the rest of Say You Will AT ALL. It would have made more sense on one of Lindsey's solo albums. It's so clearly a song that Stevie would hate, and that lacks a place for her to take part in musically, that there's just nothing Fleetwood Mac-ish about it.

Miranda isn't awful; I like Lindsey's guitar in it, but the melody feels monotone and a bit boring.

[jbrownsjr]

Originally Posted by KenB

I do, yes. For me, WTWCT is a great, fun song to sing along with -- a catchy, melodic, albeit rather lightweight way to start the album. I enjoy it much more than Miranda or Come.

I don't actually hate Miranda or Come; I just don't find that I return to them often. Come is a very ambitious song -- its complicated arrangement and intense emotion are impressive, but for me it doesn't fit with the rest of Say You Will AT ALL. It would have made more sense on one of Lindsey's solo albums. It's so clearly a song that Stevie would hate, and that lacks a place for her to take part in musically, that there's just nothing Fleetwood Mac-ish about it.

Miranda isn't awful; I like Lindsey's guitar in it, but the melody feels monotone and a bit boring.

Fair enough.... we have different ideas about FMac.. but that's the norm..

[jbrownsjr]

Originally Posted by elle

i hope you are right.

there was definitely still a disconnect before the tour in 2014 and during US legs of the OWTS tour, even with Christine back. but maybe all was finally resolved some time during the last few shows in Australia or NZ and that's why we now finally have a statement from Stevie (interestingly not strongly publicized or amplified?) that there will be a new FM album.

if Stevie contributes some songs, i'm still hoping for an extra producer who can help mediate.

It's ironic, you would think that having Christine out of the picture in 2003 it would some how give them room to be themselves again. They just don't see eye to eye musically or in life. And the EP was so telling of the disconnect. Especially without a Stevie track. I know they did Without You, but it really seemed thrown together and the vocal isn't pleasant to my ears.

Christine's return has really been, in my mind, the bridge between B/N and lighting a fire under them for new tour, new music and having the firefly magic happen. They seem to be alive, again!

[lilyfee]

Originally Posted by KarmaContestant

I don't mean magic in the sense of making Stevie's songs better than they are, but rather the magic that happens when two people who get along and like each other create something, and they put their best into it, and you can hear it.

From what I saw in the Destiny Rules doc, Lindsey's big mistake was suggesting Stevie edit her lyrics. He was kind of bossy from there on out, from the situation with the producer, to the record label, etc.

I love the songs on Say You Will but I don't like the poppy, too-slick 2000s sound of it.

I think Lindsey works the best on Stevie's songs, but only in his amazing guitar work and their chemistry as musical partners -- he has the ability to elevate her songs to a whole new level. I don't always feel the same about his producing skills, especially when he adds too much. I really appreciate the FM sound up to maybe Mirage, after which it begins to really sound stuck in a certain decade.

[bombaysaffires]

Originally Posted by KarmaContestant

An outside producer would take the pressure off both of them, but honestly, I think they'll let Lindsey do it so they don't have to pay someone.

.

They pay Lindsey.

He does not produce their stuff for free.

He gets the producer's fee and he gets the producer's cut of the royalties.

He's not dumb, and even if he were, he has his own manager, lawyers, etc. who would not agree to him doing all that for free.

Stevie has been quoted in the past as saying because of his producer royalties he's gotten more money than the others.

Bands may start out as doing it for love but it's business and that stuff ends fast.