Prop 8 and the Sundane Film Fest.

[strandinthewind]

I tend to agree with this - the Mormons called the tune (which I readily agree it was their right to do) - but, it's time to pay the fiddler. Let's see if they stand by their actions now. Something tells me, we will see some begging from their camp.
________________________________________________________

“Proposition 8 eliminates the right of African-American couples to marry."

"Only marriage between non-Jews is valid or recognized in California."

Would THOSE statements have ever made it to the ballot?

In our most recent election, millions of voters elected an African-American President, once again affirming that prejudice, bigotry and discrimination truly have no place in an enlightened and evolved society…..yet gays and lesbians continue to be victimized and stigmatized.

Continuing to predictably prove that hypocrisy and hate go hand in hand, while the borders of religious bigotry burst at the seams; “Yes on 8”s virulently homophobic campaign director announced that he had a lesbian sister….all the while leading a group that talked non-stop about the importance of “protecting the family.”

Do you have gay or lesbian friends, family members, co-workers or neighbors? Do you support gays and lesbians in their battle of full equality and civil right?

In a sick and twisted irony, the Mormon Church, an organization that faced horrible persecution for generations, caught a bad case of amnesia and now promotes and encourages the exact same campaign of hate and intolerance that their ancestors suffered through. (More revolting irony - one of the main reasons Mormons were persecuted so intensely was because of their beliefs about marriage). The Utah-based Mormon Church was the single largest economic engine behind the passage of California’s Proposition 8 – the ballot measure to ban same-sex marriage. At the urging of octogenarian church President Thomas Monson, Mormons contributed millions and million of dollars to fund the deceitful and disgusting advertising campaign that resulted in a small majority of Californians supporting Proposition 8. The New York Times estimated church members’ contributions to “Yes on 8” at $20 million. The rabidly homophobic Tony Perkins of the Family Research Council proudly claimed on his website that Mormon Church members eventually gave $22 million in support of Proposition 8. There are many, many reasons why it is unconscionable that the Utah-based Mormon church, (which enjoys a tax-exempt status as a religious organization), so intensely lobbied their followers to contribute money in support of Proposition 8, including the fact that it had ABSOLUTELY NOTHING TO DO WITH THE STATE OF UTAH, and MORMONS MAKE UP LESS THAN 2% OF CALIFORNIA’S POPULATION OF 38 MILLION.

A cruel dichotomy is that the film industry, a business with countless hardworking gays and lesbians since its inception, and a huge supporter of gay rights, holds one of it’s biggest annual events, The Sundance Film Festival, every January in Utah - the “ground zero” of hate and homophobia in our society, and the home of a church that continues to debase the lives of gays and lesbians. Utah is the most religiously homogeneous state in the country, with approximately 58 - 62 percent of its inhabitants claiming membership in the Mormon Church and filling its coffers. The church wields enormous influence over its followers. While not everyone in Utah is Mormon, and there are countless fair-minded Mormons who disagree with the hateful and homophobic philosophy and policies of the LDS Church, the UNDENIABLE fact is that…MONEY SPENT IN UTAH IS INEVITABLY FUNNELED INTO COLLECTION PLATES OF THE MORMON CHURCH; WHICH IN TURN SPONSORS ACTIVITIES THAT ATTEMPT TO DENIGRATE THE LIVES OF GAYS AND LESBIANS, AND DENY THEM BASIC HUMAN RIGHTS.

Would the Mormon Church bring thousands of their followers to a convention in San Francisco?

IT IS NOW TIME FOR THE FILM COMMUNITY TO STOP FUNDING HATE AND BIGOTRY, AND MOVE THE SUNDANCE FILM FESTIVAL TO A STATE OTHER THAN UTAH!

http://www.movesundance.com/

[ajmccarrell]

You see, prop 8 is democracy. Obviously the people of CA wanted to end gay marriage. What you are proposing is a dictatorship by three people in black robes. This is the way it is supposed to work, whether you agree with the outcome or not. Dictatorship is when someone in authority shoves something down the throats of the people against their will. Obviously, prop 8 was the will of the people. It was democratically passed. If the people passed a law saying only black marriages are recognized, so be it. You and I have always agreed that government should have no place in marriage. This time the people, not the government spoke, whether either one of us likes it or not. Disagreeing with gay marriage is not hate or prejudice. It is a difference of opinion. There is a difference between the two. Not everyone who disagrees with your version of morality is full of hate or ignorance. Try listening to someone instead of what I usually see you do, which is decide based on some cartoon version of what the other side thinks. Knowledge is freeing, willful ignorance is annoying. Practice tolerance, I tolerare liberals, you can tolerate conservatives. Oh yeah, I forgot, conservatives are not people, so we don't deserve tolerance and liberals are superior. What am I thinking?!

[strandinthewind]

The hedging begins:

Following last week's inane passage of California's Proposition 8, which amends the state constitution to ban gay weddings (including George Takei's!), opponents are calling for a boycott of Utah tourism to punish the Mormon Church for its support of the initiative. Obviously we understand why they're upset, because we are too. But now, caught in the crossfire, for some crazy reason, is the upcoming Sundance Film Festival: "It's high time Sundance found a better state to party in than the seat of the Mormon Church," writes America Blog's John Aravosis. "Sundance is THE gathering of liberal Hollywood. The last place it should be is in Utah. Robert Redford, are you out there?"

Problem is, since next year's fest opens on January 15, it's way too late for a change of venue. And, as Dave Poland points out, it's not totally clear that any of Sundance's participating hotels or businesses actually donated to the Prop 8 campaign. Plus, it's not like Park City (where Sundance is based) is as conservative as its surrounding areas, and we can't really see much point in punishing the city just because it happens to be located in Utah. Poland urges Aravosis to draft a list of boycottable Park City business that did give money to Prop 8, and that seems like a reasonable solution here, since any protest that threatens the actual film festival would be sort of idiotic. Like a spokesman for the fest said yesterday, "Sundance Institute was founded on the idea of championing diversity and freedom of expression. It would be a grave disappointment to us if our Festival were to be singled out for a boycott, especially as we celebrate 25 years of showcasing independent voices."

http://www.nymag.com/daily/entertain...ers_targe.html

Here's a link to the Utah based supporters

http://www.americablog.com/2008/11/w...al-taking.html

Here's a link to the acts of the Mormon Church:

http://www.mormonsstoleourrights.com/

In the end, anyone that supports a mob rules mentality is an idiot because that mob could turn on them in a heartbeat.

[strandinthewind]

Also, it will be interesting to hear the conservative's view on this call to boycott. Remember, they are the ones who screamed to boycott the Dixie Chicks (most notably) and others who voiced oppostion to the Iraq War (actually, all the DC did was say they were embarrased the Pres. of the US was from Texas, which has nothing to do with the war) -- and the conservatives said it was their right to boycott, etc. Let's see how they like it now that the tables are turned.

What was that again about the mob turning

[ajmccarrell]

Originally Posted by strandinthewind

Also, it will be interesting to hear the conservative's view on this call to boycott. Remember, they are the ones who screamed to boycott the Dixie Chicks (most notably) and others who voiced oppostion to the Iraq War (actually, all the DC did was say they were embarrased the Pres. of the US was from Texas, which has nothing to do with the war) -- and the conservatives said it was their right to boycott, etc. Let's see how they like it now that the tables are turned.

What was that again about the mob turning

I think most thinking people avoid boycotts and mass demonstrations. I dislike mob protests, although you'd have to admit, liberals kinda hold the corner on that one. The difference between the conservative Dixie Chicks protests is that no one was hurt. Look at the protests outside the convention where bleach was thrown on an old man and displays were set on fire. LOL!

Then again, I think sports fans have both political parties beat on mobs and riots. Sheesh!

[ajmccarrell]

Originally Posted by strandinthewind

The hedging begins:

Following last week's inane passage of California's Proposition 8, which amends the state constitution to ban gay weddings (including George Takei's!), opponents are calling for a boycott of Utah tourism to punish the Mormon Church for its support of the initiative. Obviously we understand why they're upset, because we are too. But now, caught in the crossfire, for some crazy reason, is the upcoming Sundance Film Festival: "It's high time Sundance found a better state to party in than the seat of the Mormon Church," writes America Blog's John Aravosis. "Sundance is THE gathering of liberal Hollywood. The last place it should be is in Utah. Robert Redford, are you out there?"

Problem is, since next year's fest opens on January 15, it's way too late for a change of venue. And, as Dave Poland points out, it's not totally clear that any of Sundance's participating hotels or businesses actually donated to the Prop 8 campaign. Plus, it's not like Park City (where Sundance is based) is as conservative as its surrounding areas, and we can't really see much point in punishing the city just because it happens to be located in Utah. Poland urges Aravosis to draft a list of boycottable Park City business that did give money to Prop 8, and that seems like a reasonable solution here, since any protest that threatens the actual film festival would be sort of idiotic. Like a spokesman for the fest said yesterday, "Sundance Institute was founded on the idea of championing diversity and freedom of expression. It would be a grave disappointment to us if our Festival were to be singled out for a boycott, especially as we celebrate 25 years of showcasing independent voices."

http://www.nymag.com/daily/entertain...ers_targe.html

Here's a link to the Utah based supporters

http://www.americablog.com/2008/11/w...al-taking.html

Here's a link to the acts of the Mormon Church:

http://www.mormonsstoleourrights.com/

In the end, anyone that supports a mob rules mentality is an idiot because that mob could turn on them in a heartbeat.

People are free to protest! As stupid as I think protests are, people are free to do it. I protested John Kerry once, only because his entourage stole my parking spot during a rally. I had to park about a mile away and take a bus to work, so that pissed me off. I think protesting only makes the side doing it look bad. I mean, here near Fort Lewis, we had democratic protesters laying down in front of train tracks of trains delivering food and supplies to troops overseas. They were holding signs saying that they support the troops, ironically. Basically, everyone wants a better America. It's the people's right to look like idiots if they choose to.

[GoS]

Originally Posted by ajmccarrell

People are free to protest!.

As long as what they say is right.

[Johnny Stew]

Originally Posted by ajmccarrell

You see, prop 8 is democracy. Obviously the people of CA wanted to end gay marriage. What you are proposing is a dictatorship by three people in black robes. This is the way it is supposed to work, whether you agree with the outcome or not. Dictatorship is when someone in authority shoves something down the throats of the people against their will. Obviously, prop 8 was the will of the people. It was democratically passed. If the people passed a law saying only black marriages are recognized, so be it.

I'd like to quote Thomas Jefferson, if I may....

"All, too, will bear in mind this sacred principle, that, though the will of the majority is in all cases to prevail, that will, to be rightful, must be reasonable; that the minority possess their equal rights, which equal laws must protect, and to violate which would be oppression."

Originally Posted by ajmccarrell

Disagreeing with gay marriage is not hate or prejudice. It is a difference of opinion. There is a difference between the two. Not everyone who disagrees with your version of morality is full of hate or ignorance.

If one is not prejudiced against someone, why would they ever be against that person having equal rights and equal protection under the law?

Originally Posted by ajmccarrell

Practice tolerance, I tolerare liberals, you can tolerate conservatives. Oh yeah, I forgot, conservatives are not people, so we don't deserve tolerance and liberals are superior. What am I thinking?!

I tolerate a lot of things, but I won't tolerate anyone who considers me to be a second-class citizen or worse.

[ajmccarrell]

Originally Posted by Johnny Stew

I'd like to quote Thomas Jefferson, if I may....

"All, too, will bear in mind this sacred principle, that, though the will of the majority is in all cases to prevail, that will, to be rightful, must be reasonable; that the minority possess their equal rights, which equal laws must protect, and to violate which would be oppression."


If one is not prejudiced against someone, why would they ever be against that person having equal rights and equal protection under the law?


I tolerate a lot of things, but I won't tolerate anyone who considers me to be a second-class citizen or worse.

Well, sounds like if you live in CA, you should move. I, personally, don't care if you want to marry three pygmies, a donkey and a porkchop, it's none of the state's business as far as I'm concerned. But, the people spoke. I don't want to live under Obama either, but I have to respect the will of the people. Seems the conservatives are showing a little more dignity here.

Also, you do have the same protections as me. I can't marry a guy either.

I also think you yourself are making a bunch of bigoted statements. Just because people don't consider two guys or two women a legitimate marriage doesn't mean they think of you as second class. Marriage was always a religious institution until about 150 years ago. It seems to me to be more about forcing acceptance than about rights, otherwise civil unions are okay. Forcing acceptance is just as bigoted as the non-acceptance. People can have opinions and make them law. I don't agree with ANY of the initiatives that passed in Washington, but there they are.

[JohnL]

Originally Posted by ajmccarrell

Well, sounds like if you live in CA, you should move. I, personally, don't care if you want to marry three pygmies, a donkey and a porkchop, it's none of the state's business as far as I'm concerned. But, the people spoke. I don't want to live under Obama either, but I have to respect the will of the people. Seems the conservatives are showing a little more dignity here.

Also, you do have the same protections as me. I can't marry a guy either.

I also think you yourself are making a bunch of bigoted statements. Just because people don't consider two guys or two women a legitimate marriage doesn't mean they think of you as second class. Marriage was always a religious institution until about 150 years ago. It seems to me to be more about forcing acceptance than about rights, otherwise civil unions are okay. Forcing acceptance is just as bigoted as the non-acceptance. People can have opinions and make them law. I don't agree with ANY of the initiatives that passed in Washington, but there they are.

I usually try to stay out of these type of posts but I cant on this one. I am so sick and tired of this idiotic argument that homophobes put up all the time. You cant marry a guy either...well, good for you. However, you can marry the person that you love. It is in that simple statement that the bigotry and inequality step right up front. Who are any of us to say who we can marry and who we cant. I truly believe that, in the end, God will ensure that those who continue to persecute others are shown their "just reward".

[Johnny Stew]

Originally Posted by ajmccarrell

But, the people spoke.

The "people" were also against the abolishment of slavery, ending segregation, and allowing black people to vote -- that doesn't make any of those things right or acceptable.

Originally Posted by ajmccarrell

Seems the conservatives are showing a little more dignity here.

Thanks for my first laugh of the day!

Originally Posted by ajmccarrell

Also, you do have the same protections as me. I can't marry a guy either.

Well, there you go, AJ -- once gay marriage is allowed, we'll fix you up with a nice Log Cabin Republican named Brice.

[ajmccarrell]

Originally Posted by JohnL

I usually try to stay out of these type of posts but I cant on this one. I am so sick and tired of this idiotic argument that homophobes put up all the time. You cant marry a guy either...well, good for you. However, you can marry the person that you love. It is in that simple statement that the bigotry and inequality step right up front. Who are any of us to say who we can marry and who we cant. I truly believe that, in the end, God will ensure that those who continue to persecute others are shown their "just reward".

I'm sick and tired of the idiotic namecalling of anyone who isn't passionately for gay marriage a homophone. As I said, I'm fairly neutral on the subject, but I'm pro-democracy and I support the will of the people and think it trumps the will of judges. I could say, "You're a convervaphobe. You hate conservatives." but that's just as dumb as the accusations and namecalling you resorted to. You can't win something in the legislature, so you resort to namecalling. Cute.

[ajmccarrell]

Originally Posted by Johnny Stew

The "people" were also against the abolishment of slavery, ending segregation, and allowing black people to vote -- that doesn't make any of those things right or acceptable.


Thanks for my first laugh of the day!


Well, there you go, AJ -- once gay marriage is allowed, we'll fix you up with a nice Log Cabin Republican named Brice.

Cool. What's his number?

None of what you said above was true. We did abolish slavery and were the second nation to do so, we were one of the first to allow women voting and we just elected a black president. You just insulted the country by calling it bigoted. Why not be for civil unions? It seems you just want to force acceptance through dictatorship. After 8 years of having my party called fascists, it's hysterical to watch your side go down in flames with a vote of the people and have all of you cry out to the courts to force laws on the people. That IS fascism. LOL! Like I said, I'm neither for or against gay marriage. I don't see why ANY relationship needs government sanction. But then again, it doesn't matter what my opinion is, because I'm a registered republican, that allows you to be bigoted and project all sorts of opinions and hatred on me. You are just being intolerant because you cannot tolerate anyone having a different opinion. I don't want to courts sanctioning any relationship.

[GoS]

I think that this is a stupid argument. I think that this is one of those things that, like abortion, isn't the governments business. The people can choose what they want, what they think is right and live their lives accordingly. The state is not saying that as of now you have to become gay, or even accept them, but that they can get married. Because otherwise, no matter how you defend it, rights are denied, and thus discrimination has occurred. It is if you do not approve of gays being able to marry, than you don't have to endorse it.

[GoS]

Originally Posted by ajmccarrell

Cool. What's his number?

None of what you said above was true. We did abolish slavery and were the second nation to do so, we were one of the first to allow women voting and we just elected a black president. You just insulted the country by calling it bigoted. Why not be for civil unions? It seems you just want to force acceptance through dictatorship. After 8 years of having my party called fascists, it's hysterical to watch your side go down in flames with a vote of the people and have all of you cry out to the courts to force laws on the people. That IS fascism. LOL! Like I said, I'm neither for or against gay marriage. I don't see why ANY relationship needs government sanction. But then again, it doesn't matter what my opinion is, because I'm a registered republican, that allows you to be bigoted and project all sorts of opinions and hatred on me. You are just being intolerant because you cannot tolerate anyone having a different opinion. I don't want to courts sanctioning any relationship.

How long did it take? How many other countries have had homogeneous presidents for this long? And if you haven't noticed, it kinda is. Race is an issue for many people.

Wake up and smell the ashes, AJ, we are hardy the ones burning! The majority of seats this year that were up for re-election were red, and yet the D's increased their majority handily. Yours is the party with no head, unifying figure and unpopular positions (and many of the wrong answers) that got it's butt whipped in 3 out of 3 categories. This is hysterical to hear you say that we are the ones burning. Just remember, admission is the first step to recovery.