Do we really want a new Fleetwood Mac album?

[RockawayBlind]

Originally Posted by Johnny Stew

It may have become a central line in the 'Say You Will' version, but it started out life as a throwaway. She sang it at the tail-end of the 'Tusk' demo (you actually have to listen for it, as other things are being sung at the same time), and it doesn't appear at all in the 'Mirage'-era recordings. Not even in Stevie's ad-libs (which, surely, if it meant anything to her, she would have carried it over to each attempt at recording the song).

The line is the refrain of the song. It doesn't matter how many demos there are of the song with the line thrown in at the end. Ultimately, what matters is that the official version was released with that very poorly written line as the refrain. It's the most important line in the song. There's no way that happened without her wanting it to happen.

Originally Posted by Johnny Stew

The band members, Lindsey included, have said many times that they worked for months on Stevie's tracks before she arrived to record her vocals. I would assume that meant arranging the songs, working out the structure, and recording basic tracks. So if Lindsey fashioned a chorus out of that line, I'm guessing he liked the sound of it, didn't have an issue with the grammar, and thought it gave the song a good "hook."

The key word there is "assume." And my point has been we don't really know what happened that wasn't in the documentary or that someone hasn't talked about. As a songwriter, the likelihood that Stevie in 2002 would have let Lindsey or anybody change her song that much -- to actually change the chorus -- is slim to none. And as Michele and others have pointed out, she has a history of fighting tooth and nail for her lyrics. Why would you think this is different?

[RockawayBlind]

Originally Posted by BlueDenimLamp

The 5 would simply go from studio to studio working on their respective parts as needed...As long as they stayed focused on the fact that it's a FM record and not a solo project the Mac could record a new 15 song album with lightning speed...

Disastrous. As soon as Lindsey starts to hear stuff that he would not normally want in a FM record, he's going to balk and the whole thing will fall apart. The three have to agree on a single producer and work with the person to come up with a uniform sound. Otherwise, the result will be inconsistent and probably sucky.

I kinda like the guy who produced the This is 40 songs. Probably the best production on Lindsey songs since Out of the Cradle, in my most humble opinion.

[Dex]

Originally Posted by RockawayBlind

I kinda like the guy who produced the This is 40 songs. Probably the best production on Lindsey songs since Out of the Cradle, in my most humble opinion.

Totally agreed.

[Matt Lucas]

Originally Posted by elle

loved reading your posts Matt Lucas!!

There are a lot of well-informed and talented people on this board, so I'm happy to be a part of it. I've actually been a member since 2001. I just don't have time to post that often!

Originally Posted by elle

Lindsey actually mentioned Daniel Lanois when he was talking about bringing the outside producer for the Mac last time around, so he at least was on his radar.

bringing back Dashut and Caillat harkens to Rumours II suggestions. it's been done, let's move forward people, see what some others can do.

my personal preference - give Froom a chance to finish what he started. but i can see Rick Rubin arguments too, and there were others on these boards who brought up his name in the past. (possibly even Lindsey mentioned Rubin at the same time as Lanois? can't remember exactly, but he did list 2 or 3 possible producers.)

Froom produced some of my all-time favorite-sounding records, so I would love for him to get a shot and knock it out of the park. But I have to admit---the songs on the EP are okay, but they don't sound great. Is that because they were rushed out? Who knows.

Thanks for sharing that about Lanois. I didn't realize that Lindsey has mentioned him in the past. That makes him an even more interesting option. I honestly don't see them getting along in the studio, but maybe they would surprise me! Lanois is a remarkably talented guy. The most striking thing about his prodcutions is what a variety of sounds he's created. The songs range from simple, stark acoustic tunes to swampy, dense blues, from horn-laden pop to vibrant, layered rock. He's a very talented guitarist and steel guitar player, and he's written some good songs, too.

The more I think about it, the more I think it could work.

In some ways, I think Dashut and Caillat would provide a kind of full circle thing, assuming this is truly the band's last record. But I agree that their participation would only encourage more "RUMOURS 2" comparisons. That album was created by completely different people under completely different circumstances. Lightning can strike twice, but not in the exactly same place.

Originally Posted by michelej1

I would say that Christine and Lindsey can have the same producers and work together with LB and any outside producer they want (or none) as they did on Tango.

Stevie can do whatever she wants. I hope she's been talking to Dave and maybe they can do something together, with the intent going in that Lindsey and Christine sing background on Stevie's stuff. It should be arranged with FM in mind. Dave can do that.

Umm...I don't really understand that. Lindsey and Christine have to work together and use the same producer, but Stevie gets to "do whatever she wants" and work with Dave?

With all due respect to Dave Stewart, who is a talented guy and who made some great music as part of Eurythmics, he is no Rick Rubin or Daniel Lanois. In fact, I wouldn't even say he's on the same level as Dashut and Caillat...or Lindsey, for that matter. His production has no personality. The best thing about him as he relates to FM is that he seems to work well with Stevie. That's not good enough to earn a spot in the producer's chair. It may be good enough for Stevie solo, but it's not good enough for the Mac. Just being honest. *grin*

The point of having a producer is having another set of ears in the room---someone who isn't personally connected to the songs or, sometimes, even the band. You want someone in that chair who can be encouraging but also impartial. Someone who can step back and say, "That's a good song, but what if you did THIS?" or "Of the 10 demos you've brought in, those three are complete crap, these other five have some potential, and the other two are fantastic."

I want a producer who will be that honest and direct and encouraging to all of the band members...not someone who will only make Lindsey confortable or only make Stevie happy. Maybe they'll make better music if they're NOT comfortable. That seems to have worked well for them in the past.

matt

[RockawayBlind]

Originally Posted by Dex

Totally agreed.

Have I mentioned you have impeccable taste?

[RockawayBlind]

Originally Posted by Matt Lucas

But I have to admit---the songs on the EP are okay, but they don't sound great. Is that because they were rushed out? Who knows.

I admire your restraint. Frankly, those songs sound like they were produced in a blender with a crap frappé.

[ChickenStu]

If they did a new album I wouldn't want it to have 19/20 songs like Say You Will. I'm not a big fan of long albums. Albums that long I find difficult to listen to in one go. For me the perfect length is 40-45 minutes. Roughly ten songs.

I hope a new FM album would go that route.

I still want it to be Rumours: Part II. Maybe do a follow up to The Chain called We Never Broke The Chain. Seriously. That is an album I would like to see.

The songs could be about the band's enduring popularity with allusions to the massive success of Rumours, the constant leaving and returning of band members (Lindsey Buckingham, Stevie Nicks and especially Christine McVie) and about how they've moved on from the problems and what the relationships between them are like now. They do that, put it out under the name Rumours Part II or even just Rumours 2 with roughly the same length, same amount of songs - the logos in a similair font and a similair kind of front cover (maybe with all the band posing rather than just Nicks and Fleetwood) - I think it's a total no brainer.

Aswell as a treat for the audience... maybe it could be good for them too?

[Matt Lucas]

Originally Posted by RockawayBlind

I kinda like the guy who produced the This is 40 songs. Probably the best production on Lindsey songs since Out of the Cradle, in my most humble opinion.

I wouldn't be unhappy if Jon Brion gets the gig. If we're looking at pure instrumental talent, he actually outshines Lindsey or Christine. No kidding. He's one of those prodigy/savant types who can play multiple instruments ridiculously well.

And he's certainly accustomed to working with egos. Jeez, the guy worked with Kanye West! His score for ETERNAL SUNSHINE OF THE SPOTLESS MIND is haunting and beautiful.

His production resume is very diverse, which is a good thing, but it's also missing big names outside of West. I'm not sure FM would consider him to be "in their league." I don't like a lot of the artists with whom he's worked, but I'll say that I've never heard a bad-sounding production from him. His productions sound GREAT. They have the richness and warmth of those classic '60s and '70s pop and rock records [like RUMOURS] but with just a hint of quirkiness [think '66-'68 Beatles] that makes them sound fresh.

matt

[jbrownsjr]

Originally Posted by elle

loved reading your posts Matt Lucas!!

Lindsey actually mentioned Daniel Lanois when he was talking about bringing the outside producer for the Mac last time around, so he at least was on his radar.

bringing back Dashut and Caillat harkens to Rumours II suggestions. it's been done, let's move forward people, see what some others can do.

Dashut and Caillat did Tusk and Mirage as well. And if the EP is an indication of what others can do then I don't want to move on. I want good sound on the album.

[SteveMacD]

Originally Posted by jbrownsjr

Dashut and Caillat did Tusk and Mirage as well. And if the EP is an indication of what others can do then I don't want to move on. I want good sound on the album.

EP was not really a good representation of Mitchell Froom’s work, IMO. His work with Richard Thompson on “Daring Adventure,” “Rumor and Sigh,” and “Mirror Blue” are sublime, and has a sound reminiscent of Fleetwood Mac, IMO. He is an acceptable producer if Caillat and Dashut can’t/won’t do it.

[elle]

Originally Posted by jbrownsjr

Dashut and Caillat did Tusk and Mirage as well. And if the EP is an indication of what others can do then I don't want to move on. I want good sound on the album.

yeah and Caillat complains to this day that Lindsey took over on Tusk and wouldn't let him do anything he wanted to.

from what i heard of recent Caillat's work, he's still doing very similar breezy-poppy production style as what he started with LB and Dashut in the 70s. that suits and works perfectly well for a young girl like his daughter, but band of 60-70 year olds? that would be just sad, imo. and that's what he said he'd do with Tusk if only LB had let him, and that's what he said he'd be doing with Mac now if LB would let him. you know which song of the recent Mac stuff reminds me of Caillat production - Thrown Down. sounds like a Rumours era song produced by LB-CK-RD trio, just a pale replica. i know that many FM fans here seem to love that song so i guess i can understand the attraction. but i've also noticed that although people say they love it, when pitted in a poll against FM's earlier similar songs, it always ends up last. to me it sounds like regurgitating the past, only not as good.

[SteveMacD]

Originally Posted by elle

from what i heard of recent Caillat's work, he's still doing very similar breezy-poppy production style as what he started with LB and Dashut in the 70s. that suits and works perfectly well for a young girl like his daughter, but band of 60-70 year olds?

"In The Meantime" sounded fine to my ears, at least from a production standpoint.

[jbrownsjr]

Originally Posted by elle

yeah and Caillat complains to this day that Lindsey took over on Tusk and wouldn't let him do anything he wanted to.

from what i heard of recent Caillat's work, he's still doing very similar breezy-poppy production style as what he started with LB and Dashut in the 70s. that suits and works perfectly well for a young girl like his daughter, but band of 60-70 year olds? that would be just sad, imo. and that's what he said he'd do with Tusk if only LB had let him, and that's what he said he'd be doing with Mac now if LB would let him. you know which song of the recent Mac stuff reminds me of Caillat production - Thrown Down. sounds like a Rumours era song produced by LB-CK-RD trio, just a pale replica. i know that many FM fans here seem to love that song so i guess i can understand the attraction. but i've also noticed that although people say they love it, when pitted in a poll against FM's earlier similar songs, it always ends up last. to me it sounds like regurgitating the past, only not as good.

You're shaming me!! I like Thrown Down!

[elle]

Originally Posted by jbrownsjr

You're shaming me!! I like Thrown Down!

aww, you know i love you either way!

but, do you like it as much as songs on Rumours? (i should find that old poll, people voted TD as their favorite song on SYW i think, and said how great it is, and then when songs from each of the albums were put in the next poll with TD representing SYW, TD got like zero votes.)

[michelej1]

Originally Posted by Matt Lucas

Umm...I don't really understand that. Lindsey and Christine have to work together and use the same producer, but Stevie gets to "do whatever she wants" and work with Dave?

She doesn't have to work with Dave, she can work with whomever she wants. But it seems like she had such great fun with him that it may be something she wants to continue. However, since they might be on an FM deadline the experience would not be the same as IYD, with them having dinner and after parties every night. It might be more like a grindstone and that might appeal to her less, but whatever -- let her have her own producer, not Lindsey and not someone who will bow to Lindsey.

The point is, if she's not going to be happy with Lindsey having the lion's share of production on her songs, then it shouldn't happen. He likes to work on her stuff, but he needs to give up the reins where she's concerned. If she wants him for one song and seeks out his "ominousity" , like she did for Soldier's Angel, then fine. But there's no point in her and her fans being unhappy and complaining about how he ruined her stuff for the next 10 years and beyond. I just don't think it's worth it anymore. Stevie and Lindsey should be able to work together and feel like its a collaboration, but she obviously didn't get that feeling from SYW (although I'm sure Lindsey feels differently). If the friction exhausts her and she feels her opinion is discounted and he's overriding her, then enough. Whether that's the reality or just her perception, I'm really tired of it happening.

In the old days, when they were making hits, then the battle was worth the end result. But now, when the album and the singles are not going to sell anything and that sales disappointment will only color her feelings about the recording process itself, then I don't see her being happy, whether or not listeners and critics think the music is good. She was sad about IYD, but she really felt it was her baby and she loves the music even if the album didn't get the attention she wanted. Rightly or wrongly, when Lindsey has his nose in her FM stuff, she thinks of it as his baby, not hers. I love Thrown Down and EFO and even Smile at You, but if she doesn't (I don't know if she likes EFO or not actually), then I don't want any more. Let her work with someone who makes her feel good.

Do I think it would sound more cohesive with one set of producers which would include Lindsey? Yes. But I actually don't think it's worth the hassle, but I look forward to Christine and Lindsey creating together and to the three of them singing together.

Michele