The Dance Vs Hell Freezes Over

[David A]

Ive always wondered, granted one was in 1997 and the other 1994. Which album/tour was better ? I would say the Eagles tour was better granted because they played a ton of dates more than The Dance

But album wise, its a tough call, Id say The Dance because it just seemed more personal, and I think the Eagles and Mac are the 1 and 2 best bands of all time, The Dance album to me is better and I think sold better

But my question, is which one helped them better going forward , another tough call, I think The Eagles could have came back anytime and been huge, however I think the power of The Dance , and all the stuff that came along with it, really helped FM have a future, meaning it game them oppurtunities, maybe a ton of missed ones as well, and also gave LB exposure to do solo records. So, im saying The Dance was more important for FM because its eventual succcess really allowed them to have a future, where as the Eagles could have come back whenever, and would have been big , and this is coming from a guy who thinks FM is better

FYI, say History Of The Eagles, and Frey and Henley are the bigees A HOLES ever, and I would say LB is a better guitarist than any of the Eagles players, even though Felder is damn good, just got Felders new solo album

The Eagles Vs Fleetwood Mac. wow what a match up

[louielouie2000]

I agree with you on most all counts.

1. The Dance was far more pivotal to Fleetwood Mac's legacy & career than Hell Freezes Over was to the Eagles. I don't think the Eagles had ever gone out of fashion the way Fleetwood Mac did. By the 1990s, Fleetwood Mac could not have been less relevant or cool. The Dance single handedly changed the trajectory of the band. I think because the Eagles had been out of the spotlight for so very long, forged a timeless sound that was somewhat country, their return could have happened at any time and been HUGE. Fleetwood Mac kept on trudging through the 1980s & 1990s making progressively worse music, kept losing their biggest stars, and thus their image kept deteriorating. I don't think The Dance could have happened without Hell Freezes Over, either. It set the stage for a Fleetwood Mac return; it made 70s super bands cool again. Blondie followed suit with No Exit. The Go-Go's reunited later. The list goes on.

2. Regarding which album/reunion was better... again, I have to default to the Eagles. They did it first. They set the stage. Fleetwood Mac followed suit using the same exact formula. Because of this, the Dance reunion has always seemed a bit hokey to me. Believe me, at the time, I was completely bonkers that the Fireflies had reunited. I am still giddy about it nearly 17 years later. It just doesn't seem as organic as it could have been, though.

3. I do agree that Hell Freezes Over was a bit clinical. There has always been more emotion to Fleetwood Mac's live performances vs the Eagles. The Eagles have stated many times it's their preference to replicate their songs live as closely to the original recording as possible. Fleetwood Mac is far more jazz like in their approach to live music... their performances evolve & change. So even though the Eagles did it first & better, I still love Fleetwood Mac the most.

[AnthonyMI]

I think Elliot Schiener was producer of both shows. He is an unsung hero of FM in 1997. His production values really made The Dance sound like the OLD Fleetwood Mac. Special care was taken to make almost every song sound like the original as far as the instrumentation and vocals. A few songs were changed to give it a MTV Unplugged sound, but take Gypsy for example... when did FM EVER perform Gypsy pretty much note for note like the album version? Not even in 1982!

[vivfox]

Originally Posted by AnthonyMI

take Gypsy for example... when did FM EVER perform Gypsy pretty much note for note like the album version? Not even in 1982!

Maybe this is the reason why I'm not fond of The Dance album(with the exception of Silver springs). The last thing I ever want to hear in a live setting is a note for note studio sounding song. I love the live versions where each track takes on a new life of its own.

[BlueDenimLamp]

Originally Posted by David A

The Eagles Vs Fleetwood Mac. wow what a match up

The Eagles "Their Greatest Hits 1971-1975" is tied with "Thriller" for the #1 spot with 29 million copies sold...

"Rumours" 19 million copies sold...

"Hotel California" 16 million copies sold...

Eagles "Greatest Hits II" 11 million copies sold...

RIAA

[Villavic]

Hard to ask that to a FM fan. I traveled thousand of miles to see The Reunion concert in 1997. Didn't do that for the Eagles reunion.

However, I do like far more the new songs of HFO than The Dance's.

[PenguinHead]

Originally Posted by vivfox

Maybe this is the reason why I'm not fond of The Dance album(with the exception of Silver springs). The last thing I ever want to hear in a live setting is a note for note studio sounding song. I love the live versions where each track takes on a new life of its own.

I'm fully on board with those sentiments. Take for example the song Gypsy. If you had to select one representative live version (say, to put on a dream compilation live box set like Tom Petty did), would you choose the more refined version from The Dance (b-side), or the 1982 Mirage tour version, which is gritty, raw and has so much more power and emotion, with less instruments?

That's why I'm on the fence about all the backup musicians that a lot of groups bring on tour. It adds a lot to songs as much as it takes away the elements of nuance and edge. The performances become more rote, with little room for improvisation and variance.

[TerraRhiannon]

I own both these records, and DVDs, and I just have to share that the live versions from both of these albums of Silver Springs and Hotel California are two of my most favorite songs of all time. I vote for The Dance though.

[Nicks Fan]

This is a good topic.

I have to say that both DVD's are very good but youvcan tell they don't have that raw live feel. Everything is virtually note perfect and overproduced to the point of near note for note perfection. I think I would have to give it to the Dance simply because the Eagles had too much solo material in the set and that new song of Glenn's Girl From Yesterday was horrid.

In reading Don Felders book and watching the new documentary showed what greedy arrogant jerks Don and Glenn really are. I find it funny how Frey says that he demanded that he and Don Henley get more money for the HFO tour as he felt that they had kept the Eagles Brand alive during their 80's solo tours. He says that he threatened Don Felder over his refusal to sign the contract by saying he sign the bleeping contract by sundown or they will get someone else. I respect them as musicians but not as human beings.

In my oppinon the music was so good that it kept itself alive by the constant airplay the Eagles enjoyed long after they had broken up. Don Felder is a great guitar player who could outplay Glenn and Don any day. Look at when he was fired they had to get someone else to replace him because they couldn't imitate his style them selves.

In Felders book I recall him talking about being fired and when he contacted Timothy he was told you should have just signed the contracts in reference to the box set they put where the proposal was to give Henley and Frey more money from the sales. I feel hat Timothy and even Joe are puppets in the whole dictatorship that is the Eagles. For some reason every time they come back though no matter how much the tickets cost they always end up doing bigger business then before.

I do have one question though. In a recent interview Henley said that he was angry over the criticism they got for the ticket prices being over 100 dollars during the HFO tour and said they were not the first band to do this but they were more publicized then the other artists. My question is at anytime during the 80's or 90's prior to HFO was anyone charging over 100 dollars?

[HomerMcvie]

Originally Posted by Nicks Fan

In Felders book I recall him talking about being fired and when he contacted Timothy he was told you should have just signed the contracts in reference to the box set they put where the proposal was to give Henley and Frey more money from the sales. I feel hat Timothy and even Joe are puppets in the whole dictatorship that is the Eagles. For some reason every time they come back though no matter how much the tickets cost they always end up doing bigger business then before.

Well, Timothy and Joe may be puppets, but they're still rich puppets. It's been a few years since I read Don's book, but didn't they have to "downsize" their lifestyles(during the dead years)? They just weren't making the kind of money to live the big life anymore. SOOOOO, at the end of the day, it's still A LOT better to go from making 20% of touring revenue, to 10%, than make NOTHING. Sure, it totally sucks, but at the end of the day, you're still making a lot of money.

Think of it like this...what if you had a fantastic job, where you made 200K a year, and your bosses said that we're going to cut your pay to 100K. Would you walk? Maybe. But what if your only other option was to make practically nothing?

Felder stood up and did the right thing, and he ended up with the "making nothing" option. It was wrong(and greedy) of Henley/Frey to fire him, but "it's their band". They fired the most talented musician in the band, over their greed.
But Tim and Joe are still making a hell of a paycheck, so.....

[Nicks Fan]

[QUOTE=HomerMcvie;1112454]Well, Timothy and Joe may be puppets, but they're still rich puppets. It's been a few years since I read Don's book, but didn't they have to "downsize" their lifestyles(during the dead years)? They just weren't making the kind of money to live the big life anymore. SOOOOO, at the end of the day, it's still A LOT better to go from making 20% of touring revenue, to 10%, than make NOTHING. Sure, it totally sucks, but at the end of the day, you're still making a lot of money.

Think of it like this...what if you had a fantastic job, where you made 200K a year, and your bosses said that we're going to cut your pay to 100K. Would you walk? Maybe. But what if your only other option was to make practically nothing?

Felder stood up and did the right thing, and he ended up with the "making nothing" option. It was wrong(and greedy) of Henley/Frey to fire him, but "it's their band". They fired the most talented musician in the band, over their
greed But Tim and Joe are still making a hell of a paycheck, so

I agree completely I just think the way Don and Glenn marginalize the contributions of others while trying to make their
contributions so much more a little much. I totally think they are great singwriters but there is more to music then just lyrics.
Look at how they try to write off the solo in Hotel California as just some guitar riff that was kind of interesting and we
thought we could use it. The lyrics are fantastic for HC but the guitar solo makes the song.

I guess at the end of the day Don is out and Joe and Timothy are still there.

[elle]

Originally Posted by HomerMcvie

Felder stood up and did the right thing, and he ended up with the "making nothing" option. It was wrong(and greedy) of Henley/Frey to fire him, but "it's their band". They fired the most talented musician in the band, over their greed.

from their documentary, it seemed that Frey had it in for Felder for a good number of years and was just waiting for an excuse that everybody would sign off on to throw him out. so it didn't look like it was just greed.

also from that documentary, Frey looks like a complete jerk and he doesn't even try to hide it - he seems proud of it. Henley looks like a complete bore who's full of himself.

i would never go see the Eagles in concert (never liked their stuff even though for whatever reason i tried a long time ago... and still have to change the station when their songs come on my car radio), but would be very curious to see Joe Walsh when he tours small venues.

[HomerMcvie]

Originally Posted by elle

from their documentary, it seemed that Frey had it in for Felder for a good number of years and was just waiting for an excuse that everybody would sign off on to throw him out. so it didn't look like it was just greed.

also from that documentary, Frey looks like a complete jerk and he doesn't even try to hide it - he seems proud of it. Henley looks like a complete bore who's full of himself.

i would never go see the Eagles in concert (never liked their stuff even though for whatever reason i tried a long time ago... and still have to change the station when their songs come on my car radio), but would be very curious to see Joe Walsh when he tours small venues.

It's true. And Felder was 1/3 OWNER of the Eagles brand name(merch, net profits, everything(as were Leadon and Meisner - BUT, who left on their own, giving up their rights, as I understand it) - from back when he joined, and "bands" were still partnered like that...by the time Tim and Joe came on, things had started to get real[$$$]). So they had yet another reason to want him off the payroll.
And maybe he was a jerk, IDK. I mean, if it were "us", and we LEGALLY owned 1/3 of that band, wouldn't we expect a say as well? But he refused to see that he really didn't have the input that he "legally" had, and they found a legal loophole to fire him.

Frey - it was always HIS band. He is the leader, and always had a hard time, when Henley became "the voice" of the Eagles. It rubbed him the wrong way, and of course Henley's ego grew as a result, too. Their dead years were almost a given.

I used to be a huge Henley fan, and saw him about 5 times, back in the olden days...But I think he's an ass now. As Glenn Frey says, "no one sucks the fun out of a room, faster than Don Henley". Irving Azoff calls him "a malcontent".

[lovethemac1]

But my question, is which one helped them better going forward , another tough call, I think The Eagles could have came back anytime and been huge, however I think the power of The Dance , and all the stuff that came along with it, really helped FM have a future, meaning it game them oppurtunities, maybe a ton of missed ones as well, and also gave LB exposure to do solo records. So, im saying The Dance was more important for FM because its eventual succcess really allowed them to have a future, where as the Eagles could have come back whenever, and would have been big , and this is coming from a guy who thinks FM is better

I agree 100%


FYI, say History Of The Eagles, and Frey and Henley are the bigees A HOLES ever, and I would say LB is a better guitarist than any of the Eagles players, even though Felder is damn good, just got Felders new solo album.

Just watched History of The Eagles, and read Heaven and Hell by Felder, I agree 100% that Frey and Henley are the biggest a**holes around, and I think it would soooo cool to see Felder and Lindsey on the same stage.

[lovethemac1]

e.Felder stood up and did the right thing, and he ended up with the "making nothing" option. It was wrong(and greedy) of Henley/Frey to fire him, but "it's their band". They fired the most talented musician in the band, over their
greed But Tim and Joe are still making a hell of a paycheck, so

I agree completely I just think the way Don and Glenn marginalize the contributions of others while trying to make their
contributions so much more a little much. I totally think they are great singwriters but there is more to music then just lyrics.
Look at how they try to write off the solo in Hotel California as just some guitar riff that was kind of interesting and we
thought we could use it. The lyrics are fantastic for HC but the guitar solo makes the song.

I guess at the end of the day Don is out and Joe and Timothy are still there.

I agree with all you comments 100%. No need to reiterate.